Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

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BittyBug

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I think you are absolutely right. A party without a plan or a leader is very problematic. The American people don't know what the party stands for other than hating Trump.
You keep talking about "the American people" like you're Ann Coulter. It's a very Fox News thing. Sorry, but "the American people" that are Democrats very well know what the Democratic party stands for. I'd list it out but it would be a waste of time since you have demonstrated that you are just here to try to regurgitate Fox News soundbites and are really not interested in learning anything.

The economy is booming, Jobs are back stock market and people's 401K's are growing. Life is getting better.
Actually, it's not. If you look at actual DATA rather than listening to Fox & Friends or Infowars, while certain markers of the economy are doing well they are not getting any BETTER than they were under Obama, who created more jobs during his last 19 months than Trump has during his term so far.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/us/politics/trump-obama-economy.html

Nor has the stock market performed better under Trump:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johndo...rmance-behind-obama-and-clinton/#1b83e3d36644

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-26/trump-is-bad-for-the-stock-market

If you're opposed to universities because of their alleged liberal bent, at least try to educate yourself man. Try some varied news sources. Read a little bit. Look for data and fact, not packaged opinions.
 

BlueRidge

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I'm just catching up on this. I think its clearly the WH taking advantage of an unfortunate interaction to rev up its base's hostility to the media once again. And yes that is dangerous.

And I'm rather sick of the total disregard for decency and reasonable action coming from Trump and his supporters. You know what you sick fcks are going to get? You are going to get a ruined country. And that's what you want, really, isn't it? You are having a rip-roaring ride going after "the liberals" and you just can't stop yourselves and think of the consequences. God damn you all.
 

Andora

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Engaging with Pairskaternumberwhatever is just bad for some poster's blood pressure. (Mine included) Why bother until they decide to engage with reality themselves? Or at least stop throwing pity parades every time someone's facts feel a bit sharp?

I want to put them on ignore, but I'll miss more than half the thread then. :p
 

BlueRidge

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Engaging with Pairskaternumberwhatever is just bad for some poster's blood pressure. (Mine included) Why bother until they decide to engage with reality themselves? Or at least stop throwing pity parades every time someone's facts feel a bit sharp?

I want to put them on ignore, but I'll miss more than half the thread then. :p
It would be a good idea to move on at this point. I don't read the person's posts and I'd love to see this thread returned to an actual discussion. OTOH, people do sharpen their arguments by engaging with someone like this so not all bad.
 

Andora

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It would be a good idea to move on at this point. I don't read the person's posts and I'd love to see this thread returned to an actual discussion. OTOH, people do sharpen their arguments by engaging with someone like this so not all bad.
Not all bad at all! The first 50 or so rounds can be very helpful.

After while, though...
 

jeffisjeff

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And I'm rather sick of the total disregard for decency and reasonable action coming from Trump and his supporters.
At this point, I really wish people would stop referring to Trump's "supporters." Just call them what they are: Republicans. Trump owns the party, the party owns Trump. Anyone who defines themselves as a Republican, or who votes Republican, bears responsibility for Trump and his actions and whatever it is the future holds as a result of those actions. The party is making no effort to control him, and thus they own him and his long term impact on this country.

Trump is compulsive liar => Republicans have a complete disregard for the truth.
Trump is hateful => Republicans endorse and embrace hate.
Trump is bigoted => Republicans endorse and embrace bigotry.
Trump is a misogynist => Republicans endorse and embrace misogyny.
Trump is a fearmongerer => Republicans endorse and embrace fearmongering.
 

BlueRidge

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I agree that right now the Republican Party is the party of Trump.

But I also want there to be a way out for people who have identified as Republicans and I don't think there is going to be a new party for them to identify with. They have got to have anti-Trump leadership as Republicans to rally around. Every possible person who could fill that role has been disappointing but I'm still holding out some hope.

(don't laugh ruefully at this) but Mitt Romney could provide some leadership. He has already spoken out in support of Mueller as Senator elect. He comes from a state that is not pro-Trump so he has less to fear.

Something's got to happen. We are going to have two parties and we need a non-Trump conservative party, and it is going to be the Republican Party, at least I can't see anything else.
 

BittyBug

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LOL at the thought of Mitt Romney being our knight in shining armor :gallopin1 but who knows - he did lead the way with Romneycare, which was used as a model for the ACA, so maybe Mitt is DA MAN.
 

jeffisjeff

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I agree that right now the Republican Party is the party of Trump.

But I also want there to be a way out for people who have identified as Republicans and I don't think there is going to be a new party for them to identify with. They have got to have anti-Trump leadership as Republicans to rally around. Every possible person who could fill that role has been disappointing but I'm still holding out some hope.

(don't laugh ruefully at this) but Mitt Romney could provide some leadership. He has already spoken out in support of Mueller as Senator elect. He comes from a state that is not pro-Trump so he has less to fear.

Something's got to happen. We are going to have two parties and we need a non-Trump conservative party, and it is going to be the Republican Party, at least I can't see anything else.
If they have any interest in anti-Trump Republican leadership, Republican voters would need to start by voting out those who support and enable Trump. For the most part, they haven't done that (this was an issue for the primary season, not so much Tuesday night). Instead, many anti-Trump Republican politicians (e.g., Cruz) have moved towards Trump in order to secure support from Republican voters. To me, it seems that the vast majority of Republican voters want the Republican party to be the party of Trump.

I do tend to agree about Romney though.
 

BlueRidge

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It does seem that virtually all Republicans in elected office, at least at the federal level, have succumbed to the need to support Trump, or they have quit like Flake. And yes the primaries would have been a time to stand up and instead we saw mildly anti-Trump Republicans like Mark Sanford defeated. So its no easy road.

Otherwise, we have nothing but hardened partisan warfare. I think there are a lot of Republicans who are just keeping their heads down who might respond to clear anti-Trump leadership.

but at the moment that's just me dreaming...

adding in my dreams Governors, like Hogan in MD and Baker in MA, if they drew together with Romney and maybe some not in office like Flake, there could be a nucleus...
 

Andora

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It's a very valid point about Republicans needing a way out. Another FSUer said that to me a few years ago, before/during the 2016 election I want to say, and not just regarding republicans needing leadership to follow.

I think a number of republicans/trump advocates will need a way out of a lot of hyperbole, commentary, etc., without hitting them over the proverbial head with how wrong they are/were. That some of us will need to go easier on some of them. It's something I try to keep in mind when dealing with certain family or friends, who I want to believe aren't lost causes. :p
 

BlueRidge

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Not a Republican but Manchin spoke out quite strongly against the firing of Sessions saying it presents a potential constitutional crisis. Maybe he feels a bit emboldened now that he doesn't have to run again for six years?
 

Sparks

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And I'm rather sick of the total disregard for decency and reasonable action coming from Trump and his supporters. You know what you sick fcks are going to get? You are going to get a ruined country. And that's what you want, really, isn't it? You are having a rip-roaring ride going after "the liberals" and you just can't stop yourselves and think of the consequences. God damn you all.
Guess what? It's what Putin wants most of all.
 

Vagabond

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It would be a good idea to move on at this point. I don't read the person's posts and I'd love to see this thread returned to an actual discussion. OTOH, people do sharpen their arguments by engaging with someone like this so not all bad.
Would it be premature to start a new thread called "Dangers of a Pence Presidency"?
 
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peibeck

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And The Guardian is reporting that the acting AG was a paid board member of "World Patent Marketing," which bilked millions of dollars from consumers.

Acting AG Whitaker said the company goes "beyond making statements 'ethically and translates those words into action."

The FTC essentially bankrupted it earlier this year, suing the company for $26 million for its predatory behaviour. Yeah, it really sounds "ethical"....

Only "the finest" for Trump. :rolleyes:
 

Sparks

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And The Guardian is reporting that the acting AG was a paid board member of "World Patent Marketing," which bilked millions of dollars from consumers.

Acting AG Whitaker said the company goes "beyond making statements 'ethically and translates those words into action."

The FTC essentially bankrupted it earlier this year, suing the company for $26 million for its predatory behaviour. Yeah, it really sounds "ethical"....

Only "the finest" for Trump. :rolleyes:
He was also a hot tub salesman. :rofl:
 

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