Dangers of a Trump Presidency--Part 7

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Aussie Willy

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Unfortunately, Trump is the symptom not the cause - look at Jeff Sessions' involvement. 1/3 of the country is just hateful.
Definitely. Trump is just conduit but a powerful conduit to get things implemented.

This whole thing is reminding me too much of how the Australian government has behaved (both sides of politics) for the last 20 years. Very little compassion and appealing to the lowest common denominator. It is about votes and treating people from other countries with real human rights issues like animals.
 

caseyedwards

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If someone wants the "catch and release" process to change, she isn't taking away the incentive.



I ask you again, where does the money come from? Where do the people come from? How long will it take? How many more people do they hire to be able to process asylum applications within two weeks and where to they come from? How will they get paid? What happens if they don't have the people or the resources to fulfill these measures? (And I'm not talking about punishment for not following the law that this would be, I'm talking about the asylum seekers).




No one is debating that. But they don't grow on trees and neither does money.



Feinstein doesn't bring in anything. She simply ends the cruelty. Right this minute.




These buildings have to be found. They need to be cleaned. They need to be checked if they'e structurally sound. They should be checked for rodents. The buildings don't have showers. They have limited facilities. They don't offer privacy.
How long will it take to prepare those buildings? What happens to the families in the meantime?

No matter how you look at it, if you look beyond the shiny exterior of Cruz' bill, it does not address the immediate end to family separation. The end to family separation is dependent on the new facilities and they are dependent on availability and resources. And until all of the conditions of the bill are met, it seems that families will continue to get separated.
By ending the cruelty you automatically create more asylum cases. There are thousands of immigration lawyers who could become judges. When new initiatives are passed the funding usually comes from just appropriating the money! It’s not like anyone really cares in Washington where the money for things they want come from. 20 trillion dollar debt. What happens to families when they were released before? It turned into 11 million undocumented people in America.
 

VGThuy

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New York Governor Cuomo just announced that the State of New York is about to file a "multi-agency lawsuit against the Trump administration for violating the Constitutional rights of immigrant children & their families who have been separated at the border."


https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1009166427532783626

Also, in other fitting news, the U.S. is now leaving the UN Human Rights Council:

https://www.bbc.com/news/44537372?n...breaking&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter

As Human Rights Watch's Kenneth Roth eloquently states: "For the Trump administration, it's more important to defend Israel from criticism by the UN Human Rights Council than to defend human rights victims in Syria, North Korea, Myanmar and South Sudan--a sadly one-dimensional human rights policy."

https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1009182866998210566
 
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Lara

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It’s unbelievably disappointing and depressing to know these sentiments must have been there all along. I really do feel betrayed - or perhaps was too naive. I remember how relieved I was in 2012 and both Oleada and I figured the Republicans had to do better with Hispanics to have a chance in the future. I’d never have imagined things would turn out like this, in reaction to a black man elected President.

I might not be in the US anymore (and at this point don’t want to return) but it’s still devastating. :(
 

topaz

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@VIETgrlTerifa - I hear you. Based on past legislation in our country's history, I feel any law can be changed at any time. Any law can be manipulated.

Example, The Black Code laws enacted after the Civil War(Reconstruction) were used to keep freed blacks' in servitude in a white supremacist economy and society. The 13th Amendment didn’t make all forms of slavery illegal. It kept one exception. Slavery was still permitted “as a punishment for crime.” Hence, if a freed slave committed a crime, like using profanity, looking a white person in the eyes or being accused of anything a white person deemed "offensive" the freed slave could be charged with a crime and jailed. Once jailed - they could be leased out as a slave laborer, and put to work in chain gangs and work camps on farms, mines, and quarries. This continued until the 1970s. This was done to naturalized US citizens.

I say this because the current WH admin which is steeped in white supremacist ideology are using loopholes to create barriers and prohibit brown and tan immigration. That is the goal, period. There have been GOP senators and representatives that have honestly stated this publicly.
 

VGThuy

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@VIETgrlTerifa - I hear you. Based on past legislation in our country's history, I feel any law can be changed at any time. Any law can be manipulated.

Example, The Black Code laws enacted after the Civil War(Reconstruction) were used to keep freed blacks' in servitude in a white supremacist economy and society. The 13th Amendment didn’t make all forms of slavery illegal. It kept one exception. Slavery was still permitted “as a punishment for crime.” Hence, if a freed slave committed a crime, like using profanity, looking a white person in the eyes or being accused of anything a white person deemed "offensive" the freed slave could be charged with a crime and jailed. Once jailed - they could be leased out as a slave laborer, and put to work in chain gangs and work camps on farms, mines, and quarries. This continued until the 1970s. This was done to naturalized US citizens.

I say this because the current WH admin which is steeped in white supremacist ideology are using loopholes to create barriers and prohibit brown and tan immigration. That is the goal, period. There have been GOP senators and representatives that have honestly stated this publicly.

Exactly. After the Civil War, all of a sudden there were these existing laws that were being enforced with vigor or new laws created to make it a jailable offense for actions that were quite normal or no big deal before just so they can make imprisonment much easier. They sought out activities that blacks were doing and made them criminal offenses so slavery could continue, this time through the criminal justice system.

Further, did you know jail and prison used to be considered "cruel and unusual" punishment and courts historically did not force imprisonment as the default punishment because taking away somebody's liberty in that way for offenses that weren't like murder was considered inhumane. At the end of the nineteenth century and at the turn of the twentieth century, prison and jail became the default punishment and now here we are in 2018 and we think prison is the only way to punish people for these crimes...that are often created to punish poor people severely. Gee, I wonder why prison became so popular?

And of course this created the prison industrial complex and many communities rely on prisons to fund their economies so it gives voters in those areas incentives to vote for tough on crime candidates and legislation. And I know I got into it with another poster before, but those prisoners are used to bolster their population numbers giving those areas more representation even though those prisoners do not have the ability to vote. And now we're dealing with things like the school to prison pipeline.

Our history is one big racist, exploitative mess.
 

snoopy

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^ Well, again, it is the convergence of the racists with the money lovers that creates the systemic problems.
 

ballettmaus

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All members of my family a generation or so above me are either legal permanent residents or naturalized citizens. My husband is a naturalized citizen. They most likely won’t be affected, but this is still very personal and it should be put everyone on notice over the direction we are headed.

My parents just applied for US citizenship. My mom got a ticket a few months ago (my parents have a hybrid and missed the not very clearly written fine-print that you also need a certain license plate to always be allowed to use the HOV lane with it and according to the cop who stopped her, so did apparently several others) and ever since I read this a few days ago, I'm afraid that their citizenship will be denied and they might get thrown out of the country. I probably worry for nothing but they've used misdemeanors from teenage years to justify their agenda, so why not traffic violations? I keep consoling myself with the fact that they're white and from Germany and try not to think about it otherwise.

This is all kinds of crazy and wrong!
 
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VGThuy

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^ Well, again, it is the convergence of the racists with the money lovers that creates the systemic problems.

Yep. People do get offended though when people point out just how much racism has been institutionalized and supported by systems in our country and how it seeps into the private sector as well and affects everything.

My parents just applied for US citizenship. My mom got a ticket a few months ago (my parents have a hybrid and missed the not very clearly written fine-print that you also need a certain license plate to always be allowed to use the HOV lane with it and according to the cop who stopped her, so did apparently several others) and ever since I read this a few days ago, I'm afraid that their citizenship will be denied and they might get thrown out of the country. (They've used misdemeanors from teenage years to justify their agenda, so why not traffic violations?) I keep consoling myself with the fact that they're white and from Germany and try not to think about it otherwise.

This is all kinds of crazy and wrong!

I'm sure your parents will be fine but I truly do understand your fear. Please keep us updated.
 

ballettmaus

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Unfortunately, Trump is the symptom not the cause - look at Jeff Sessions' involvement. 1/3 of the country is just hateful.

In this case, I don't think that the cause can be treated without treating the symptom first.



but now they are in power legally

They are in power. But I'd say it's debateable if they are in power legally.



Trumps' rhetoric has been getting more extreme because it works with his base. He knows what he is doing and he has the midterm elections fully in mind when he does it.

Yes, it works with his base but mostly, it has gotten more extreme because there was not enough opposition.
His base feeds off him and he feeds off his base. But the lack of opposition is enabling him and making him more daring. Why pull back when there is no one there who reigns him in?
 

VGThuy

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I just meant they are in power over our government and have the legal powers to create this chaos. Of course, there are still some checks and balances, thank goodness.
 

FiveRinger

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Definitely. Trump is just conduit but a powerful conduit to get things implemented.

This whole thing is reminding me too much of how the Australian government has behaved (both sides of politics) for the last 20 years. Very little compassion and appealing to the lowest common denominator. It is about votes and treating people from other countries with real human rights issues like animals.

I don't know much about Australian government, probably since I haven't heard much in the news. I'm curious about it. Can you elaborate? Are you guys experiencing some of the same ridiculousness that we are here in the states? Today, I would be scared to travel abroad and admit that I am American for fear that the other respectful citizens of the world would believe that I had anything to do with that jackass that's in the White House.
 

ilovepaydays

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Today, I would be scared to travel abroad and admit that I am American for fear that the other respectful citizens of the world would believe that I had anything to do with that jackass that's in the White House.

IMHO, if someone blindly judges you because you are from country X (or of X ethnicity, X religion, etc.) without bothering to get to know you first, they can just go to hell.
------------------------------

Meanwhile, Politico has reported was discussed when Trump met with the House GOP today. Really? The Sanford comments? That was SO last week!
 
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Dr.Siouxs

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Also, in other fitting news, the U.S. is now leaving the UN Human Rights Council:

https://www.bbc.com/news/44537372?n...breaking&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter

As Human Rights Watch's Kenneth Roth eloquently states: "For the Trump administration, it's more important to defend Israel from criticism by the UN Human Rights Council than to defend human rights victims in Syria, North Korea, Myanmar and South Sudan--a sadly one-dimensional human rights policy."

Not that you'll read this since you can't handle debate and placed me on ignore :barrel:, but member nations of the current "human rights council" include Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Pakistan, China, DR of Congo, Qatar, Russia, UAE, and Venezuela. If a country, like Qatar or Saudi Arabia, which executes gays is considered an authority on human rights, then that organization needs to be drastically reformed if not disbanded entirely.

There are other ways to address problems overseas than depend solely on a corrupted inter-governmental body.
 

FiveRinger

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IMHO, if someone blindly judges you because you are from country X (or of X ethnicity, X religion, etc.) without bothering to get to know you first, they can just go to hell.
------------------------------

Meanwhile, Politico has reported was discussed when Trump met with the House GOP today. Really? The Sanford comments? That was SO last week!

I was being a little bit sarcastic.....but the worldview of Americans has really gone all to hell. Frankly, I'm embarrassed, even thought DT doesn't have enough sense to be.
 

WildRose

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I was being a little bit sarcastic.....but the worldview of Americans has really gone all to hell. Frankly, I'm embarrassed, even thought DT doesn't have enough sense to be.

Thank you for understanding how the rest of the World feels. We know not everyone supports Trump, but we also know that there are literally millions that do, and Canadians are sick and tired of being attacked by this lunatic and his followers. There is a boycott the US movement here and while Americans are still welcome (as are the many refugees we have been taking in who are fleeing your country), instead of threatening other countries with ‘go to hell’ as someone else suggested, it would be better to make it clear where you stand when travelling.
 

WildRose

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That such evil can exist - words fail me:

https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e
“Trump administration officials have been sending babies and other young children forcibly separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border to at least three “tender age” shelters in South Texas, The Associated Press has learned.
Lawyers and medical providers who have visited the Rio Grande Valley shelters described play rooms of crying preschool-age children in crisis. The government also plans to open a fourth shelter to house hundreds of young migrant children in Houston, where city leaders denounced the move Tuesday.”
 

clairecloutier

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There's a Facebook video out of DHS Secretary Nielsen being publicly confronted in a D.C. restaurant:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...irstjen-nielsen-mexican-restaurant/716528002/

Protesters chanted "Shame! shame!" at her. (Wasn't there a scene like this in The Handmaid's Tale?)

Much as Nielsen deserves it, I find this scary stuff. Just how quickly our political discourse and our standards and our level of civility and decency as a society have fallen off a cliff. It's scary.

Trump is not America. And he does not represent the majority of Americans. But he has America in his grip, and he & the people around him are dangerous as hell. I never thought I would be so seriously worried about the future of this country, and the world. The currents around us are deep and dangerous and they are mostly heading in the wrong direction.
 

ballettmaus

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Nursing babies, toddlers, a blind boy, a Down’s syndrome little girl. Ripped from their mother’s arms.

Corey Lewandowski seems to think it's funny.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/19/...i-undocumented-immigrant-womp-womp/index.html


There's a Facebook video out of DHS Secretary Nielsen being publicly confronted in a D.C. restaurant:

Not only a restaurant but a Mexican restaurant. That woman's got a lot of nerve!



In other news, the House has released a plan today that would balance the budget in nine years but only because it would make significant cuts to Medicaid and Medicare. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ity-to-balance-budget/?utm_term=.fceff68b8fa4
 

ballettmaus

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Trump has tweeted at the fastest rate since is Presidency in June and his lies have increased. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b67019fcfe4_story.html?utm_term=.9b0882c7d5b0

“When liars repeat the same lie over and over again, they can get even more of an advantage, at least among those who want to believe them or are not all that motivated either way,” DePaulo said in an email. “So when people hear the same lies over and over again — especially when they want to believe those lies — a kind of new reality can be created. What they’ve heard starts to seem like it’s just obvious, and not something that needs to be questioned.”


How will the damage that his lies cause, the distrust that they sow in the MSM and the institutions ever be repaired? How can they be repaired? :fragile:
 

Aussie Willy

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I don't know much about Australian government, probably since I haven't heard much in the news. I'm curious about it. Can you elaborate? Are you guys experiencing some of the same ridiculousness that we are here in the states? Today, I would be scared to travel abroad and admit that I am American for fear that the other respectful citizens of the world would believe that I had anything to do with that jackass that's in the White House.
Australia's government has used offshore (places such as Papua New Guinea, Narau) processing of refugees to try and stop people travelling by boats from Indonesia as a way of deterring them. They do this to stop them seeking asylum because once they got to Australia then Australia had to give them asylum. Many of the people have been in the detention centres for years and there have been numerous issues around it.

I think you would find most people outside of the US would distinguish between the Orange Turd and your normal everyday US citizen. I found when I travelled there a couple of years ago during the election campaign, I would just ask lots of questions of people and listened just as they did with me about our respective countries.
 
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