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Coronation ace parabolic vs ultima supreme

Discussion in 'Moves In The Field' started by TheGirlCanSkate, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    How big of a difference do you think there is between an intermediate and advanced blade? My skater has 2 years left of skating and needs new blades, she is working on a double axel, and may test out (just a couple of tests left). I have a new intermediate blade already (a gift), but she has been in supremes for the past 5 years. Is it a really bad idea to think she will be fine in them? I'm stressed, this is a big hit to my budget, with an increase in coach fees and rink fees. But I just have to get her through 2 more years.
     
  2. overedge

    overedge crying in a bathroom in PyeongChang

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    Some of the skaters at my rink have gone as far as triple jumps with Coronation Aces, and those blades have a reputation as a good all-around blade that works for skaters at almost all skill levels. I don't know much about Ultima Supremes but if your daughter is only going to be skating for two more years she might be OK with Coronation Aces which IIRC are less expensive. Have you asked her coach?
     
    skatefan likes this.
  3. skatefan

    skatefan moving on

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    I agree with overedge about the Coronation Ace blades (you don't say what the gifted blades are but I'm assuming from the thread title they are Coronation Ace) as being good enough to work up through 2A to triple jumps. Personally, I wouldn't pay for expensive blades at this stage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  4. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

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    My concern would be the size of the rocker and the toe pick. Ultima Supremes have an 8' rocker. Switching to 7' can be done but with only two years left, I wouldn't want to disrupt her like that. Also, the toe pick profile and rake may be different.
     
  5. bladesofgorey

    bladesofgorey Active Member

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    I *really* think it's a bad idea to switch the blades. It's totally a "penny wise, pound foolish" thing. Consider this- the ultima blades are listed at $360. Spread that $360 over two years (and beyond depending on how often they are sharpened). I think it's much smarter to forgo some sessions/lessons to save that $360 than to switch the blades. It makes no sense to me at all to do so- it's going to be an adjustment that wastes coaching time/ice time anyway and then your skater ends up with a blade that's not as high level as ideal. Yeah, some skaters make it up to triples in Coronation Ace blades, but those are usually the blades they've been accustomed to over years so it makes more sense they'd be able to skate at a very high level on them. You might end up setting your skater back some months even if she's able to adapt in the end and continue to progress (no guarantee there either). I guess you could always give the free blades a try but if you factor in time and the labor of having them mounted/adjusted etc. I really don't think it's a wise choice in the end because it isn't going to save you all that much and may only invite problems. imo. Cut out some ice time instead, but don't scrimp on the most important piece of equipment.
     
  6. Aceon6

    Aceon6 Hit ball, find ball, hit it again.

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    Agree about asking the coach. The Aces are comfortable and predictable. The only thing that might push your skater into something different would be changes in physics due to weight gain/loss, change in speed or technique, or the coach's perception that a bigger toe pick is needed to move forward.
     
  7. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    I know one coach would say try it and the other a firm no. The toe pick is smaller. They just look and feel different. I'm kind of stuck, I wasn't anticipating a 360 dollar purchase this month. I put them up for sale but blades, even new, don't sell quickly. I'm also experiencing a big cost increase in coaching fees and ice time all in the past 2 months. Part of me hates this sport so much. :/ I'll have to see about overtime this month.
     
  8. spinZZ

    spinZZ New Member

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    I wouldn't put your daughter through this. I skated on Coronation Ace (regular, not parabolic) many years, then switched to Eclipse Aurora (a close copy of the Coronation Ace in 440C stainless, but a flatter spin rocker), and a month ago switched over to the Paramount Freestyle 12" (Paramount's version of the Wilson Gold Seal). The Ultima Supreme is the Ultima version of the Wilson Gold Seal. By "version", I mean similar, but not an exact clone.

    So, if you look at differences between the Ultima Supreme [and Paramount Freestyle 12"] vs Coronation Ace Parabolic, they have:

    *Different main rocker
    *Different spin rocker
    *Different pick design
    *Different longitudinal edge configuration
    *Different transverse edge configuration
    *Possibly a different heel length
    *Possibly a different blade thickness.

    So you see, practically everything is different. For me, the feel and the handling of the Paramount Freestyle 12" vs the Coronation Ace regular is substantially different, and I would expect the Ultima Supreme and the Coronation Ace Parabolic to be substantially different too.

    Since your daughter is already accustomed to the Ultima Supreme, it will set her back some relearning moves on the Coronation Ace Parabolic; how much is hard to tell, depends on the individual. But it's not something I would intentionally do just because I had a freebie pair of blades.

    By the way, what happens after two years? Does she plan to stop skating completely?
     
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  9. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, i am going to figure it out. I really don't know what she will do, it is going to depend on college, her major, I just know she plans too skate through high school. She is in another sport and pretty strong at it and doesn't know if she wants to do it later. She has talked about college synchro but it is all ...still depending on where she ends up.
     
  10. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    I ended up getting her the supreme blades again. She skates on them next week. It was just too much to risk a set back with the other blades. Hopefully they will sell and we can get some money back. What do you all do with flat/old blades?
     
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  11. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    Adding, she told me she is planning on majoring in math. Next is the college hunt!
     
  12. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    After her first timed on the ice in new blades, itg would not have mattered what blades she was wearing . She said it was the scariest session she ever had. She got home and showed me the curve of her blades compared to the old ones. The old ones had gone flat, she was spinning on her toepick. :O After a week they are beginning to feel normal, her jumps are getting big again and her spins are looking stronger. Anyway, ANY blades would have been an adjustment!
     
  13. treesprite

    treesprite Active Member

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    You need to find a new skate sharpener.

    Do this: trace the profile of both blades, as exact as humanly possible. Every time the skates are sharpened, compare the actual blade to the tracing. This will help you know if the sharpening was bad. If a sharpener changes the profile of the skates in a single sharpening, the shop needs to either fix if the problem is very slight, or needs to replace the blades. You should also find out the policy about damaged blades, to make sure the place actually will provide for a replacement if the blades are damaged.

    Don't ever leave skates for sharpening without knowing exactly who the person sharpening will be. There may be a very skilled person, but someone less skilled may end up being the one to do the task. Even specifying on a tag, doesn't guarantee that the specified person will do it, if the shop just lines up customer skates (that is what they do at my rink, and sometimes the name of the desired sharpener isn't easy to see if there is not an extra large note attached).
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  14. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Well-Known Member

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    The new blades are great, the old blades have been sharpened every 4 for over what ended up being 4 years - I thought it was 3, but then found the receipt for the old ones in the box. There just wasn't anything left on them. She has all her jumps and spins back now.
     
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  15. treesprite

    treesprite Active Member

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    I still have trouble believing they would be that flat. A good sharpener would have been able to maintain the profile at least well enough that the blade wouldn't have been that drastically different from a new one. Of course there could just be severe inconsistency in the manufacturer of that blade model. I thought blades were being made more consistently nowadays, but according to my skate guy, some still are not.
     
  16. spinZZ

    spinZZ New Member

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    <<Emphasis added>>

    Just to clarify:

    (a) Were they sharpened every 4 weeks or every 4 months?

    (b) When you say the old blades were flat, do you mean just the spin rocker was flat, or do you mean both the spin rocker and the main rocker were flat (relative to new blades)?

    (c) How much metal (height) was there left between the chrome relief region boundary and the sharpened edges on the old blades, and what is the corresponding height on the new blades? (If you have the standard chrome-plated carbon steel blades, the chrome plating is removed in a region near the edges, and the boundary is clearly visible.) You should take measurements at several spots along the blade (at least at sweet spot, center of blade, and heel of blade).

    ETA:

    (1) If the sharpening is done properly, the main rocker should not get flattened throughout the service life of the blade.

    (2) If the sharpening is done properly, the spin rocker should get flattened throughout the service life of the blade. That's because, with a standard sharpener, there is a zone immediately behind the toepick that the wheel can't access (otherwise the wheel would damage the toepick). Some expert techs with the proper equipment (a cross grinder) can touch up the spin rocker and grind down the toepick to maintain the spin rocker better, but this is not a routine operation. Though, even with touchups, eventually the spin rocker does get flattened.

    (3) In regular sharpening, if the skater does not want a drastic change in skating feel after sharpening, the skater does not wait until the edges are really dull before getting them sharpened ... the skater gets them sharpened before they are really dull. Similarly, in deciding when to replace blades, if a skater does not want a drastic change in skating feel after replacement, the skater does not wait until the available hardened steel is nearly depleted ... the skater replaces them before the spin rocker is too flat.

    (4) Just because your skater needed some adjustment period with her new Supremes, you shouldn't conclude that you should have saved the money and switched to your free Coronation Aces. [Whenever you get new boots or new blades, even of the same model, some adjustment period is expected.] The Coronation Aces likely would require a more prolonged adjustment period because a new Coronation Ace has a less flat main rocker and a less flat spin rocker than those of a new Supreme (as well as other differences that I pointed out earlier), so the change in skating feel would have been even more drastic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  17. spinZZ

    spinZZ New Member

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    Right now I just have my old blades stashed in a box in the basement. I figured if one day I spring for my own sharpener, the old blades will be useful for sharpening practice. Some people have played around with making knife blades from old skate blades, but not worthwhile if the hardened steel is nearly used up (not too many people have the resources to harden and temper a blade). If your skater simply outgrew the blades, and they still have reasonable life left, just donate them to someone who could use them.
     
  18. treesprite

    treesprite Active Member

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    The wife of the skate tech suggested I attach my old blades to the wall to use for coat hooks.
     
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  19. Aceon6

    Aceon6 Hit ball, find ball, hit it again.

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    I saw several sets of hockey blades in the kitchen of a restaurant once, mounted horizontally and used to hang pots with j hooks. It looked really cool.