Concentration camps for gay men in Chechnya

MacMadame

Staying at home
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36,518
I am pleasantly surprised. I don't think petitions are a big lever to pull but I do think they can add to a growing public outcry in certain situations and make TPTB sit up and take notice. And that's why I continue to sign them.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
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15,109
It will probably achieve absolutely nothing, but I'm still a bit pleasantly surprised that she brought it on the table.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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36,518
I hate to revive this thread with bad news but the activists who went to Russia to deliver All Out's petition have been arrested. Here's the email I received from All Out:

My colleague Yuri, a campaigner for All Out, was just detained by police in Moscow this morning, along with four other fellow activists.

They were on their way to deliver over 2 million signatures – including yours – to Russian authorities, demanding justice for the kidnapping and torture of gay men in Chechnya.

Hordes of police were waiting. They were taken away immediately.

A trial is set for May 29 and we want to be ready.

Can you chip in today to help pay for the activists' fines and other emergency costs?
Not sure what the next step is. I don't think what is going on Chechnya should be allowed to stand.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
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15,109
Update from German media: One man from Chechnya has gotten a humanitarian VISA for Germany and arrived in Germany on Tuesday, according to the same news reports there are 4 more cases currently being heard at the German embassy in Moscow.

Also the report says Lithuania was the first country to take 2 gay refugees from Chechnya and France took one refugee.

So even if those are small steps, it's good to hear that some people could actually be helped!
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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61,718
Ramzan Kadyrov-Gay Purge: Real Sports Trailer (HBO): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUvsG2TC-Uc
Published on Jul 14, 2017
For the first time on television, Chechen ruler Ramzan Kadyrov addresses the allegations of a gay purge in the Chechen Republic. Real Sports travelled to Grozny to interview Kadyrov about his human rights record and his use of sports in rebuilding Chechnya in his own image. Real Sports debuts Tuesday, July 18th at 10pm ET on HBO.
 

Mad for Skating

Well-Known Member
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2,876
This is literally like crushing my heart with a truck. How can the world exist like this in the 21st century? I wish there was something I could do to help.
It makes me realize how much I take for granted my own freedom.
 

AxelAnnie

Graceful men lift lovely girls in white!
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12,279
If drawing someone's attention to why gay people march in Pride parades is bullying, then so be it. It's what happens when you post dumb shit like AxelAnnie did in the Barry Manilow thread.

As for you, the self-proclaimed Alexander Solzhenitsyn of FSU :p, you need to grow up and quit your "I have better things to be doing" flouncing off when you are called on your bullshit.

You may be in the minority on FSU, but some of us have been in the minority in the real world our whole lives and have had to deal with a lot more than someone disagreeing with what we write online. You are being presented with opinions you do not agree with. That's not bullying.
So because you were bullied it is ok to bully others. Got it. I missed that somewhere in the jaws of human decency. Does that by any chance fall under Do unto others? Or is more An eye for an eye?
 

allezfred

#EpidemiologistsNotEconomists
Staff member
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56,409
So because you were bullied it is ok to bully others. Got it. I missed that somewhere in the jaws of human decency. Does that by any chance fall under Do unto others? Or is more An eye for an eye?
I don’t follow that bible shit so I wouldn’t know.

If drawing your attention to the fact that LGBT people face persecution, torture and death worldwide is bullying, then so be it. You labelling it bullying isn’t going to make me or others stop being vocal about it. It’s your way of trying to make us invisible. Not happening! :D
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
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14,523
The orthodox homophobia is not nearly as bad as Islamic homophobia. The Islamic homophobia is being empowered but is not nearly as bad as Isis homophobia would be. Putin is saying he has to tolerate this homophobia because then Isis would take over.
 

LarrySK8

Well-Known Member
Messages
485
What appears to be absent in this conversation, as well as all others in the Forums, is a discussion of the differences between social conservatism or liberalism and political conservatism or liberalism.

For example - I live in a large US city, where we have an African-American mayor and in our state, an openly gay governor, the first in history. This is politically "liberal," by most definitions.

However, my state is very politically conservative when it comes to its relations with Washington and the federal government. We want them to stay out of our business and allow our freedoms where we have lived and created them. That is conservative.

In the USA - "liberal" politics is about having the federal government control the lives of the citizens, I.e. DEMOCRATS. Having the government preserve and protect the right of citizens and the states they live in is conservative, i.e. REPUBLICAN.

Politically "conservative" actually has nothing to do with SOCIAL conservatism. Politically "liberal" has to do with increasing the federal government's control over the states' freedoms and citizens freedoms and nothing to do with being socially liberal.

So, while I am "liberal" in my home state, I want Washington/Trump/Obama/whomever to STAY OUT - i.e. "conservative." And this doesn't even address social ideologies.
 

Skittl1321

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,333
In the USA - "liberal" politics is about having the federal government control the lives of the citizens, I.e. DEMOCRATS. Having the government preserve and protect the right of citizens and the states they live in is conservative, i.e. REPUBLICAN.

I'm not sure what this has to do with chechnya, but I disagree with a lot of this. Republican overreach of control of citizens has caused incredible direct difficulty in my life. They want to control the lives of citizens in many areas.
 

LarrySK8

Well-Known Member
Messages
485
I'm not sure what this has to do with chechnya, but I disagree with a lot of this. Republican overreach of control of citizens has caused incredible direct difficulty in my life. They want to control the lives of citizens in many areas.
What I am referencing and referring to is the ideology - not how members of all parties actually do, or do not, abide by it.
A true 'republican' SHOULD, by definition, always support the freedoms of the states and citizens that live in those states. And they SHOULD support a lean, properly defined government.

Remember, the Constitution of the USA is a document originally made to LIMIT the powers of federal government, and Republicans, "conservatives", SHOULD enhance the freedoms of the states, not limit them.

But we all know in practice, it doesn't follow these definitions.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,137
What I am referencing and referring to is the ideology - not how members of all parties actually do, or do not, abide by it.
A true 'republican' SHOULD, by definition, always support the freedoms of the states and citizens that live in those states. And they SHOULD support a lean, properly defined government.

Remember, the Constitution of the USA is a document originally made to LIMIT the powers of federal government, and Republicans, "conservatives", SHOULD enhance the freedoms of the states, not limit them.

But we all know in practice, it doesn't follow these definitions.
What does this have to do with the concentration camps in Chechnya? This isn't even thread drift, it looks more like you posted in the wrong thread.

There are plenty of threads talking about US politics. I'd be grateful if you moved your discussion to one of those and not bring it in into this thread where it is totally irrelevant.
 

LarrySK8

Well-Known Member
Messages
485
What does this have to do with the concentration camps in Chechnya? This isn't even thread drift, it looks more like you posted in the wrong thread.

There are plenty of threads talking about US politics. I'd be grateful if you moved your discussion to one of those and not bring it in into this thread where it is totally irrelevant.
the connection I made, coming into this a little late - was to what responses a certain member was receiving for their views, and I felt the responses to those views did not include the definitions as I mentioned.

In regard to Chechnya, it is rhetorical to state this is horrendous, which it is, but then you can connect my discussions of political v social conservatism to it. A socially conservative culture has blurred the lines of social and political conservatism by creating these camps and trampling on the human rights of those gay citizens, a clear human rights violation.

A conservative culture can, theoretically, still protect human rights, which any government should, and have a more liberal, i.e. rights-based governing style.
 

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