Communism: 100 Years of dictatorship, gulags and mass murder in the tens of millions

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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37,284
Just a suggestion. It's not meant to tell people what to do. I think the past several pages have made it pretty clear whether trying to respond to/educate/argue with a troll is successful.
With one notable exception, this thread has been interesting and stimulating to me. The article linked by snowbird about the NK guards under threat of execution is valid information that I appreciate. You don't have to respond at all, you know.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,166
I consider my post to be newsworthy is because when I crossed the Inner German Border in 1968 (from west to east) I didn't think that failure to shoot to kill would be punishable by death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_German_border
That's true. Some border guards and soldiers were killed while trying to cross the border and East German border guards were under orders to shoot people crossing illegally but the guards would not be shot for not doing so. They would just have been put in jail.
http://www.dw.com/en/document-shows-east-german-guards-had-shoot-to-kill-orders/a-2734598
 

Spun Silver

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,817
Tragic. Punitive psychiatry is alive and well, I see.
On that note:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/russian-h...mes-faces-enforced-psychiatric-133749392.html
"It's a purely Soviet procedure. Make accusations and then end things by locking someone up in a psychiatric facility."
Interestingly, Democrats are currently trying the same strategy on Trump. Alan Dershowitz (Hillary voter) recently noted the parallel, quite angrily.
https://worldisraelnews.com/dershowitz-dangerous-liberals-diagnose-trump/
 

Jot the Dot Dot

Headstrong Buzzard
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4,122

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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37,284
I really like it, very tongue-in-cheek and wields the argument that proponents of communism like to use against them
 

Jot the Dot Dot

Headstrong Buzzard
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4,122
There is a movie out, about the Welsh journalist Gareth Jones, who had written about the Ukrainian famine 1932-33, was expelled from the Soviet Union for this, and ultimately paid for it with his life. Features James Norton in the starring role: https://missliberty.com/mr-jones-film-news/ There was a 2008 documentary called The Living , which can be found on Youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lDp9AMACys , about the Ukrainian famine, and Jones's attempts to uncover it.
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,081
Just a question: what do you know about that country and those people?

I don't mean these things justify murders. I just mean history isn't as simple as it seems to you.

Do you know that soviet people were taught to believe all the nations were their friends?
It is not just about such posters. It is also about good poems for kids and etc.

Do you know USSR became "the most reading country in the world" (as far as we know)? Even today Russians read even in subway. I didn't know it could be odd for a foreigner.

What about free health care? It is still important for many people, even though now not every medicine is free.

The first human who managed to journey into outer space is a soviet man.

I just mean... many good soviet people managed to live honest lives. Many managed to do important things.

Maybe it seems a person should start a revolution, if he notices dictatorship, but... don't forget USSR was the result of a revolution. Could the participants of that revolution control the result? No. "A revolution devours her own children" - this phrase was born in 18 century and not in Russia. (I mean people never could control the result of their revolution.)
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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37,284
Do you know how many former Soviet citizens are on this forum? Having experienced the “free” healthcare on my own hide, I consider myself lucky to be alive. Take the agitprop elsewhere please
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,081
Take the agitprop elsewhere please

:) I guess such a life is easy: if you don't like someone's opinion, you just say: "This is agitprop!"

If you were attentive, you could notice that when I spoke about the result of the revolution, I meant all those murders which happened later. So I'm not a person who thinks all those murders are OK.
I mean there were people who joined the revolution thinking it was going to make their lives better (because they thought they belonged to the working class), but were killed or robbed by that revolution (sooner or later).
It was so not only in "soviet" countries: in France (for example) those who started a revolution were killed not by their enemies too, but by those who were supposed to be their comrades.
I think it is always so: if one starts a revolution against something bad (against dictatorship, for example), he can't be sure that he fights for something good. He can't be sure the situation will become better, if the revolution wins.
USSR (with all those murders) existed thanks to the victory of a revolution.

As for your words about free healthcare, I know that expensive doctors can be dangerous too. And free healthcare often is good. I think your words are just mud against many good doctors.

Actually, I've no time to argue.
I just think headlines like "100 Years of dictatorship and mass murder" look silly. It seems even you know that not all those years were like "Stalin's" time.
 

Jot the Dot Dot

Headstrong Buzzard
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4,122
I think it is always so: if one starts a revolution against something bad (against dictatorship, for example), he can't be sure that he fights for something good.
How many times must it be pointed out: Lenin's Bolsheviks did not overthrow the Tsar! Tsar Nicholas II abdicated in March 1917; a Provisional democratic government was set up under Alexander Kerensky. Unfortunately Kerensky made the very unwise decision to have Russia continue involvement in WWI. Russia was in the midst of an ongoing civil war, which the Bolsheviks took advantage of and seized power in October. That is what the Bolsheviks overthrew, a burgeoning democracy that was stifled in it's infancy!
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
18,142
@Rina RUS, aren't you like 20? 25? Have you even been to the USSR? Aka have you been say, at least 5 y.o. by 1991? Or are you talking about something you read in the history books?
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,372
I saw a map recently of all the former socialist republics to see how many of them think life was better under the USSR. Over 60% of Russians said it was. All of them had around that number except the map didn’t show the Baltic states where I’m sure the numbers would be inverse. I wonder if it’s like how Americans who weren’t even born during the period get all nostalgic for the 1950s. The surprising thing was how high it was for the Caucuses, like one country has over 70%.
 

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