Colorado Cake Baker Wins In US Supreme Ct! (threads merged)

Skittl1321

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17,333
You'll note that the court also wrote a very narrow judgement. This can't be used as precedent for similar cases.
 

my little pony

#teampfizer
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well it's not about some jank bible cake made by born again inbreds. this shouldn’t be a surprise, given the far-right makeup of the court. they’ll legalize all sorts of discrimination under the guise of “religious freedom” before its all said & done - this is only the beginning...of creeping far-right fascism. say goodbye to fair housing, employment and what's left of medical care.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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11,679
The whole situation is tough, I have to admit. If I owned a business, I wouldn't want to be forced to do something for a Doug Ford rally, for example.

At the same time, people cannot be rewarded for discrimination against people for sexual orientation. It's sick and sad and I can't help but wish the jackass cake maker ends up losing enough business to piss off forever.


Your celebration of this says a lot about you, and absolutely none of it good.
 

snoopy

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12,274
FWIW, Red State calls this a dire warning for religious conservatives and not unmitigated good news, saying this shows a 5-4 ruling against the baker in a broader application.

https://www.redstate.com/streiff/20...shop-decision-dire-warning-cause-celebration/

Now, to some degree, political groups operate very much like the NRA (or is that vice versa), and always bleat out the sky is falling warnings to gin up their base. Whether that is the case here or not, I don't know. To that point, however, if liberals suffer a few court losses, it might help liberal turnout and energy.
 

ilovepaydays

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11,883
Interesting that the decision was 7-2 with just Ginsburg and Sotomayor dissenting.

Personally, if I wanted to go through the money and effort to start a bakery, I would make pretty much whatever cakes and baked goods that I thought the market wanted. But my motivation to start a business would be to make as much $$$$ as I could anyway. I think most business owners would feel the same way as well.

But the government shouldn’t be able to tell a private business what products/services they will provide. If this bakery wants to be jerks (which I think that they are) - that should be their right. They can be rewarded with what business they will lose - and another bakery will get their sales.
 

attyfan

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8,958
IMO, the Supreme Court isn't stupid. I think they recognize that the extent to which religious beliefs protect people from the consequences of one facially neutral law (anti-discrimination laws), they protect people from the consequences of other such laws -- so, for example, congregations would be protected if they gave sanctuary to people that the Trump administration wanted to deport. Therefore, they will keep the rulings in anti-same-sex- marriage cases as limited as possible.
 

snoopy

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12,274
But the government shouldn’t be able to tell a private business what products/services they will provide. If this bakery wants to be jerks (which I think that they are) - that should be their right. They can be rewarded with what business they will lose - and another bakery will get their sales.

Its a sticky wicket. Do you think Muslim cab drivers should be able to refuse clients with guide dogs because they consider dogs unclean? (Ha, how many Christians would say no to that question?)

It is easier when there is diversity and you can just move onto the next cabbie or bakery. It's harder in homogenous areas.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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Supremes uphold baker's right to refuse to make cake for a gay wedding.

And, thank goodness. There are lots of bakeries. If he wants to decline on his religious beliefs, good for him. Nuns should not have to assist in birth control or condom hand outs.

Time to bring the pendulum back in line a little.
 
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MsZem

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17,597
Supremes uphold baker's right to refuse to make gay cake.
Cakes can't be gay. Or straight.

SCOTUS did not rule that businesses can turn away LGBTQ patrons as they please; they ruled on much narrower grounds, that Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop did not receive a fair hearing from the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. There is no way that Justices Breyer and Kagan would have signed off on the decision if it held up discriminatory practices, and I question whether Justice Kennedy - who wrote the majority decision in Obergefell vs. Hodges - would have done so, either.

The opinion can be read in its entirety here.
 
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VGThuy

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This was a narrow decision based on the unique facts of this case where the majority found that there was animus shown by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission towards Phillips specifically when they suggested his claims of religious freedom was only made to justify discrimination. The Court felt the Commission should have been more neutral. Who knows how this Court would have ruled if they didn't find animus. However, I guess we can guess.

This case does not really set a precedent regarding this matter and that will have to wait till next time, but I feel the foundation is there.

Cakes can't be gay. Or straight.

SCOTUS did not rule that businesses can turn away LGBTQ patrons as they please; they ruled on much narrower grounds, that Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop did not receive a fair hearing from the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. There is no way that Justices Breyer and Kagan would have signed off on the decision if it held up discriminatory practices, and I question whether Justice Kennedy - who wrote the majority decision in Obergefell vs. Hodges - would have done so, either.

The opinion can be read in its entirety here.

What Zemgirl said.
 

VGThuy

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I understand being in favor of religious liberty and not having to be dictated that you have to make a cake with a message, though this case was actually about much more than that, but it's another to be this happy about LGBTQ persons facing another form of discrimination as you understand this case to mean. I mean are you really that happy that LGBTQ are told they are sub-human again? I really want to know where you stand.

Anyway, we're discussing what the opinion actually says in the other thread.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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14,463
well it's not about some jank bible cake made by born again inbreds. this shouldn’t be a surprise, given the far-right makeup of the court. they’ll legalize all sorts of discrimination under the guise of “religious freedom” before its all said & done - this is only the beginning...of creeping far-right fascism. say goodbye to fair housing, employment and what's left of medical care.
I must say the words you use are very telling. Tolerance goes two ways.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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14,463
Interesting that the decision was 7-2 with just Ginsburg and Sotomayor dissenting.

Personally, if I wanted to go through the money and effort to start a bakery, I would make pretty much whatever cakes and baked goods that I thought the market wanted. But my motivation to start a business would be to make as much $$$$ as I could anyway. I think most business owners would feel the same way as well.

But the government shouldn’t be able to tell a private business what products/services they will provide. If this bakery wants to be jerks (which I think that they are) - that should be their right. They can be rewarded with what business they will lose - and another bakery will get their sales.

True (except for the jerks part).

How would people feel if a Jew who owned a bakery refused to bake a cake to celebrate Hitler's Birthday? People should (within limits) be able to operate within their own religious beliefs.

This is a cake for a wedding. This is not seating on the bus, or not allowing kids to go to school. For goodness sake......find another bakery.
 

Dr.Siouxs

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8,829
well it's not about some jank bible cake made by born again inbreds. this shouldn’t be a surprise, given the far-right makeup of the court. they’ll legalize all sorts of discrimination under the guise of “religious freedom” before its all said & done - this is only the beginning...of creeping far-right fascism. say goodbye to fair housing, employment and what's left of medical care.

Seems rather extreme. Would you sue (not to mention publically chastise and degrade) a Muslim bakery for refusing to bake an LGBT themed cake? What type of reaction would you expect from that community? I'll tell you I'm in my 30's and still not out to my conservative muslim parents. In fact, it's not even an option.
 

once_upon

Believer in woman's right to own healthcare decisi
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I don't understand why people just can't be kind and treat people with equality and respect. You have a business, I want to purchase a product or service, I have money to pay for your product, just take my money and do the service.

Baking a cake neither condones or affirms the purpose of the cake, it is a product for which I want to buy. Perhaps because you are the best baker in the world or other reason, the only thing that matters is I think well enough about your product to want to buy it.

Gay or straight cakes unite, because in the end they are all cakes.
 
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Reuven

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The Court pretty much focused on the Colorado Civil Rights commission messing things up, and this case started before Orbergfell and recognition of freedom to marry. I don’t see a precedence set here.
 

FiveRinger

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So now religion can give you the right to discriminate? You can selectively choose which parts if religious doctrine you follow, or not? That is ridiculous.
 

Tinami Amori

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Just personal reaction to this.
- I would not want to know this bakery owner, and probably would not patron his shop, because I detest people who don’t recognize people’s civil rights and rights to personal choices in their private lives, which don’t affect others physically or financially. Same-sex relationships is a private choice and is “no skin off anyone’s nose”.

But there are details to add: the Baker did not refuse to sell the cake to "gays". These guys were his customers for a long time for regular baked goods. He refused to make a cake with "gay wedding regalia". He was very sorry that he could not go against his religion, and arranged for these guys to have their cake made by another bakery and to pay for it himself. The only service he refused is to use his own art for a specific event which he did not support because of his religion.

So....I will use another example to demonstrate how I feel about “legal and social” situations in this case..

- If a Jew with a big star of David walks into an obvious Palestinian Bakery and wants to buy a Chocolate Cake, and the owner refuses to sell him this cake because the buyer is a Jew, I would think the Bakery Owner is a jerk and deserves legal actions.

- If a Jew with a big star of David walk into an obvious Palestinian Bakery and wants to order a special Chocolate Cake with “Jerusalem the True Capital of Israel” regalia, and the owner refuses to sell him this cake with Special Artwork, offensive to the Palestinian, I would 100% support the Baker, and would think that the Jew is a Total Jerk to ask for it in the first place in this given place. If the Jew sued, I would be on the Baker’s side.
 

VGThuy

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38,483
The questions raised still need to be answered by the Court. They did not answer that with this decision.

Kennedy acknowledged that business owners generally cannot deny equal access to goods and services under a neutral public accommodations law. Otherwise, he said, "a long list of persons who provide goods and services for marriages and weddings might refuse to do so for gay persons, thus resulting in a community-wide stigma inconsistent with the history and dynamics of civil rights laws."

"The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts," Kennedy said. "These disputes must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market."
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
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How would people feel if a Jew who owned a bakery refused to bake a cake to celebrate Hitler's Birthday?

Because marriage between two people of the same sex is not the same as celebrating a man who orchestrated one of the greatest crimes against humanity the world has ever seen.

Thanks for confirming you are still a raging homophobe though.
 

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