Coaching change: who should stay, who should go? E.g., Alina Zagitova & Eteri Tutberidze.

Jeanne7

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Sorry to be harsh but if Orser could persuade Jason to get rid of his man-bun, tone down his sometimes cringeworthy man-child demeanour and instead focus on jumping technique, Jason could, perhaps, reach his potential.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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If having a naturally optimistic outlook on life and showing emotion with a coach that you have known for 20 years in the KnC is considered “manchild”, I’ve walked this earth long enough to say this earth needs more man children and the last thing Brian Orser needs to do is address that.:lol:

And since the judges are fine with Jason’s man bun, I’m fine with Jason’s man bun.:D
 

MAXSwagg

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Well you are much better informed than i.

My thought with Jason and Orser is that Orser makes Olympic and world champions. Jason has passed the point where he can up the tech content to remain relevant. He has lovely qualities...obviously.
Also it always appeared to me that Jason was attached to his coach....and not in a good way.

IMHO Jason to really make an impact in his skating should have made this change several years ago.

I completely agree. Jason is fantastic, but the technical peak has passed.
 

SkateFanBerlin

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Doesn't ISU meet next week? If some of the proposals - i.e. increasing the PCS multiplier, lowering quad base value, etc. -are acepted it would be good for good for Jason. He could continue to medal once or twice a year. In the one interview Orsar sounded indifferent. It was the other coaches that backed Jason. Maybe Cricket can get him healthy and reviving his 4T.

Agree, he's never going to be a multi-quad skater. Thus, worlds/Olys are not probable. And, I hope he proves me wrong.
 

antmanb

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Sorry to be harsh but if Orser could persuade Jason to get rid of his man-bun, tone down his sometimes cringeworthy man-child demeanour and instead focus on jumping technique, Jason could, perhaps, reach his potential.

You're not being harsh, you're just being a dick :D What someone's hair style is like or how affectionate they might be off ice hasn't absolutely nothing to do with jumping technique.

Another one to add to ignore.
 

barbarafan

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Sorry to be harsh but if Orser could persuade Jason to get rid of his man-bun, tone down his sometimes cringeworthy man-child demeanour and instead focus on jumping technique, Jason could, perhaps, reach his potential.

Seriously??? AFAIK Brian's lifetime goal is NOT to turn out robots. He is the opposite of that. Thinking outside of the box is what creates legends....the personality and fire inside defines the performance outside.
 

barbarafan

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Doesn't ISU meet next week? If some of the proposals - i.e. increasing the PCS multiplier, lowering quad base value, etc. -are acepted it would be good for good for Jason. He could continue to medal once or twice a year. In the one interview Orsar sounded indifferent. It was the other coaches that backed Jason. Maybe Cricket can get him healthy and reviving his 4T.

Agree, he's never going to be a multi-quad skater. Thus, worlds/Olys are not probable. And, I hope he proves me wrong.

He did not sound indifferent....He was concerned about time and scheduling....Tracy is the organizational guru & felt they would be able to juggle things to make everything work. Brian has total trust in her judgement and if she feels everything will work, it will work. Amen
 

bardtoob

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You're not being harsh, you're just being a dick :D What someone's hair style is like or how affectionate they might be off ice hasn't absolutely nothing to do with jumping technique.

Another one to add to ignore.

Harsh would be calling it a boybun ;)
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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Sorry to be harsh but if Orser could persuade Jason to get rid of his man-bun, tone down his sometimes cringeworthy man-child demeanour and instead focus on jumping technique, Jason could, perhaps, reach his potential.
I don't think it is harsh. Realistic would be more likely. Why is it ok to tell Michelle she needed a make over to look more grown up but not ok to tell Jason to tone it down? Everyone is hoping Bradie gets made over. But don't mention Jason?
 

Weve3

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I do recall a certain amount of pushback when a makeover for Bradie was suggested. I was one who thought it might be beneficial, and I certainly didn’t mean it to be taken as mean-spirited or cruel. Bradie is a lovely girl, and she should absolutely keep that beautiful, long blonde hair. Where I was coming from was hoping she would skate to more mature content and maybe try a costume more in line with her age and not shy away from using her height, etc., but instead use it to her advantage, (e.g., Carolina Kostner)

As far as man buns are concerned, it really depends on the guy. I have a friend who wears one, and he rocks the heck out if it – very sexy, but for the most part, they do not go over well on a majority of men, imho.

Going back to Bradie for a moment, I think she is okay staying with her coach, she has had success with her team. However, I am surprised there hasn’t been more of a push (like there usually is) to have her sign on with a coach/team that is a little more high profile. Of course, Bradie may have resisted a suggestion to do so, much like she did when USFS asked her to rethink Cinderella. So, good for her. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
 

Jeanne7

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Seriously??? AFAIK Brian's lifetime goal is NOT to turn out robots. He is the opposite of that. Thinking outside of the box is what creates legends....the personality and fire inside defines the performance outside.

Who said anything about being a robot? IMHO Jason needs a makeover.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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I’m not really sure what “needing a makeover” means.

If it means you don’t like Jason’s hairstyle, well, that’s an opinion, and you can definitely say, well I think his skating would be more enhanced with short hair.

The other points of makeover often discussed are costume, and believe me, from Rohene’s Bedazzler to the beetle yellow pants of Tristan & Iseult, Jason fans have long advocated makeovers.:D

But then there are the “whatchoo talkin about Willis” :confused:comments. Like Jason has to skate fewer “happy” programs. Clearly written by someone who hasn’t watched a Jason LP in the past three seasons, none of which could be considered “happy”.

And then there are the attacks on Jason’s actual real live personality.:confused: Well, he is optimistic, sunny and positive, God bless him, and he should stay that way. I may be a miserable old crank with a curse for everything which is not my way, but even I am not egotistical enough to think Jason should adopt my personality.

And even though I walked barefoot to school ten miles in the snow uphill, both ways, and nobody ever gave me a darned thing, making me the cantankerous old cuss I am, that sure as heck doesn’t make me more *mature* than sunny, optimistic, close to his coaches and everyone around him, Jason. Like, for reelz?:rolleyes:

Makeover, sure. Personality change, no....
 

aml78

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I agree Brian didn’t sound jazzed about Jason. I read some of his statements as you are going to be second tier and get pieces of attention from a lot of people. I think he was being realistic given their skater load but I think he was also making it clear he has world champions who will be getting his attention. Not Jason.
 

believed

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To be fair, Orser (according to the IN article) was up front with Jason about the new skaters he was taking in. He told him that Boyang would be coming and that the only setup that would be available was a team effort. Jason explored other options and came back and decided TCC was what he wanted.
 

flyingsit

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Going back to Bradie for a moment, I think she is okay staying with her coach, she has had success with her team. However, I am surprised there hasn’t been more of a push (like there usually is) to have her sign on with a coach/team that is a little more high profile. Of course, Bradie may have resisted a suggestion to do so, much like she did when USFS asked her to rethink Cinderella. So, good for her. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Perhaps USFS is a little more gun-shy about pushing skaters to change coaches after the Gracie/Frank situation.
 

Weve3

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Perhaps USFS is a little more gun-shy about pushing skaters to change coaches after the Gracie/Frank situation.
Good point! I also think that as easygoing as Bradie appears to be, I see her being quite comfortable putting her foot down nixing any suggestions, recommendations or ideas proposed that she is not entirely on board with or would simply not want to do.

Off topic, but since you’ve mentioned Gracie, in retrospect, I wish she (and her parents) would have stayed w/ Alex and tried their best (Alex, too, btw) to work through the issues, personal and otherwise they were having. I think in the long run, Gracie would have been better off. Frank is legendary, but not the answer for everyone – obviously.
 
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berthesghost

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Perhaps USFS is a little more gun-shy about pushing skaters to change coaches after the Gracie/Frank situation.
Eh. I think expecting your boss to be a parent in addition to your preexisting set of parents is asking too much. Usfs is there to give advice to steer you toward the right career moves including finding a better coach. If it’s not the right fit for you or the work place atmosphere is worsening your preexisting personal problems, then it’s really your parents job to get you out of there. But as we know, the golds had major personal problems of their own. Anywho, I think usfs will probably continue to give good career advice and stay clear of getting involved with skater’s personal problems. It seems like a hotbed of quicksand to start venturing into that quagmire.
 

barbarafan

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To be fair, Orser (according to the IN article) was up front with Jason about the new skaters he was taking in. He told him that Boyang would be coming and that the only setup that would be available was a team effort. Jason explored other options and came back and decided TCC was what he wanted.
Brian I believe contract wise had agreed to always be at Hanyu's competitions so if any other skater has a competition the same time not in the same place he cannot go. He was totally up front with Jason about this. His MO is all coaches work with the skaters and all are totally in the know as to where and what should happen with them. He tries to go to the competitions and if there are several skaters at the same competition multiple coaches go. Last yr Tracy was going as well so skaters are totally looked after at competitions.
 

Weve3

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Brian I believe contract wise had agreed to always be at Hanyu's competitions so if any other skater has a competition the same time not in the same place he cannot go. He was totally up front with Jason about this. His MO is all coaches work with the skaters and all are totally in the know as to where and what should happen with them. He tries to go to the competitions and if there are several skaters at the same competition multiple coaches go. Last yr Tracy was going as well so skaters are totally looked after at competitions.
Agreed, but the thing is, of course, Brian would be at Yuzuru’s side, as per their agreement, or I would suggest even if there were not an agreement because Yuzuru is a two-time Olympic gold medalist, which, let’s be honest, is good PR for Brian… Just as it was good PR for Eteri to have always been with Evgenia and now Alina. Whereas, Polina was usually accompanied by another coach. Nothing wrong with that, but in a roundabout way, at least in the public eye at competitions, there is a hierarchy in place.

Jason will be well trained and represented. My only thought is how much time will he literally be spending with Brian? It is not that big of a deal I don’t think, just a curiosity more than anything.
 

barbarafan

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Agreed, but the thing is, of course, Brian would be at Yuzuru’s side, as per their agreement, or I would suggest even if there were not an agreement because Yuzuru is a two-time Olympic gold medalist, which, let’s be honest, is good PR for Brian… Just as it was good PR for Eteri to have always been with Evgenia and now Alina. Whereas, Polina was usually accompanied by another coach. Nothing wrong with that, but in a roundabout way, at least in the public eye at competitions, there is a hierarchy in place.

Jason will be well trained and represented. My only thought is how much time will he literally be spending with Brian? It is not that big of a deal I don’t think, just a curiosity more than anything.

For sure once Jason has a clean bill of health for his ankle he will be very hands on in determining the technical course of changes to his jumping and implementing changes...As everyone is totally in the know at all times whoever works with him will be following the plan laid out so it will not matter that much. Making sure that Jason is confident and in the right mindset to compete will also be very important.
 

bardtoob

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Perhaps USFS is a little more gun-shy about pushing skaters to change coaches after the Gracie/Frank situation.

I remember Gracie blowing up her relationship with Alex, then going to Marina and Oleg's to practice coachless, then Phil writing article asking why Gracie was coachless, then Gracie going to Frank because he had no top level female skater after Mirai did not move with him to Palm Desert. . . and Frank saying that he did not think it necessarily had to be him that coached Gracie.

I suppose it is possible that Gracie was told by USFSA that she could not compete at the Olympics coachless.
 

Jeanne7

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In your opinion. Brian and team will work on his skating, conditioning, health and mindset. If Jason feels like changing anything else he will. He is an adult.

Affirmative. As I stated clearly IMO! It's a given that Jason's team will focus on all aspects of his skating. I feel it's time he updated his look - i.e. hair, costuming, etc. I just watched TSL, and even Dave suggests Jason needs a makeover. :argue:
 

barbarafan

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Affirmative. As I stated clearly IMO! It's a given that Jason's team will focus on all aspects of his skating. I feel it's time he updated his look - i.e. hair, costuming, etc. I just watched TSL, and even Dave suggests Jason needs a makeover. :argue:
But then.......it's Dave ...and he is a di**ck
 

berthesghost

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:lol: TSL can be good gossipy fun but lord help anyone who takes their advice seriously!

One thing that Jason does have going for him, and hence his huge popularity, is that he's unique and unlike the other skaters. He needs a make over like Whitney Houston needed to stop singing so loud. :p

P.s. Are the Manchild comments literally cut and pasted from old Jeremy Abbott treads or do haterz have to retype them from scratch?
 

bardtoob

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P.s. Are the Manchild comments literally cut and pasted from old Jeremy Abbott treads or do haterz have to retype them from scratch?

Don't be insulting ;) . . . the Jason one's are original. Masculine purple Jeremy had a whole different set of issues.
 

Weve3

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Jason is fantastic, but the technical peak has passed.
Agree, he's never going to be a multi-quad skater. Thus, worlds/Olys are not probable. And, I hope he proves me wrong.
I’d been holding out hope that Jason could up the technical ante and was cheering him on to do so, but then he showed up at competitions (with Kori) and it never successfully played out that way, so I started to reel in my expectations.

Now I am at the point where I’m saying “never say never,” but I tend to agree with you. At this point, it will be a challenge to increase (to a significant degree) his technical abilities, and I believe Team Orser is fully aware of this. However, if Jason is feeling good about this particular coaching switch, then that’s all that really matters at this stage in his competitive career.

Jason is an amazing talent, but I honestly do not see too much change at the domestic level for him. Nathan, Vincent, etc. will still be bringing the TES content, and Jason will aim to keep up via PCS and the advantage he has there, for now.
 
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