CAS rules Valieva can compete - reactions/fallout, plus some details from the hearing

hanca

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Yes, and let's see if they have their quads when they become eligible for seniors, which I hope goes to 17 year olds.
Well, Trusova and Scherbakova have them at 17, and Tuktamysheva has triple axel in mid twenties, so very likely they will keep it. At least some of them. Russia has the numbers of skaters who do them, so even if just half of them kept the jumps, they will easily find three skaters with those jumps for Europeans/worlds.
 

MacMadame

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This is all so confusing. I would think if a skater is banned, then she is banned.
But she isn't banned. That's the problem.
And when I see concern for a privileged group expressed and none for the marginalized people, I’m gonna say something. We’re just different.
We've been talking about this situation in PI for days. Just because you didn't see, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 

skatfan

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We've been talking about this situation in PI for days. Just because you didn't see, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Yeah, I will have to check it out. I think of that forum as a nonskating content place to be honest.
 

MacMadame

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Yeah, I will have to check it out. I think of that forum as a nonskating content place to be honest.
Well, the more recent thread has turned to speculating about Worlds but the Russia one is still focused on Ukraine.

Some European countries are starting to ban Aeroflot from their airspace. I guess we won't see many Russians in Montpellier...
Speaking of Worlds and other events, it looks like the sanctions are beginning. A big sports competition that was to take place in Russia was pulled from there as well.
 

hanca

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Trusova and Shcherbakova's jump technique is already causing them chronic injuries. They'll barely be competing when they are 18, never mind to their twenties.
Many skaters get injured. Including Hanyu and Chen. How do you know that Trusova and Scherbakova are getting injured because of their jump technique, rather than because of overtraining or because of just a freaky accident?
 

soogar

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LOL you just described Nathan Chen*, unless of course Nathan doesn’t actually exist.

And a lot of other over- achieving high level skaters who yes, play an instrument at a fairly high level and somehow manage to gasp hang out with friends while still “enjoying the process and the journey.”
Nathan really is an anomaly that he can handle everything well. I'm sure that Vincent's mom probably reminds him of that constantly as well. Not everyone can be an ace in school and a top athlete at the same time.
 

Vagabond

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Some of that, believe me, IS the affluence. Teachers in affluent communities are scared of upsetting parents whose big goal in life is to get their kids into Ivy League schools. Our counterparts complain a LOT if kids get low grades or discipline. That's one thing I'd like to change.
I'd like to change that too, but I think that the attitude is going to change on its own. It isn't sustainable. The number of undergraduate places at Ivy League institutions does not change, but the number of applicants does. As a result, many well qualified applicants will not be accepted. Parents should accept this fact and be more concerned that their children receive a good secondary education that they get into an elite university or college.

Similarly, in figure skating, there an overabundance of skaters, at least in some places. In Russia, for example, being able to do a triple lutz and a triple flip from the correct edge and a triple-triple won't necessarily get a woman into Nationals, let alone on the National podium. Skaters, their parents, and their coaches should be more concerned about learning proper techinque and life skills than trying to qualify for the Olympics. And not just in Russia!
 

skatfan

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Many skaters get injured. Including Hanyu and Chen. How do you know that Trusova and Scherbakova are getting injured because of their jump technique, rather than because of overtraining or because of just a freaky accident?
Lol we know because of what happens to the Eteri skaters. Turnys out with back problem, Medvedeva’s back so bad she can barely turn. The technique is not meant to be sustainable.
 

MacMadame

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I'd like to change that too, but I think that the attitude is going to change on its own. It isn't sustainable. The number of undergraduate places at Ivy League institutions does not change, but the number of applicants does. As a result, many well qualified applicants will not be accepted. Parents should accept this fact and be more concerned that their children receive a good secondary education that they get into an elite university or college.
It seems to be changing slowly around me. More and more kids are setting their sights on getting to a UC of which there are several prestigious ones. Of course, that just puts the pressure in a different place if the UCs can't up their enrollment. But it's a start.
 

AxelAnnie

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Nathan really is an anomaly that he can handle everything well. I'm sure that Vincent's mom probably reminds him of that constantly as well. Not everyone can be an ace in school and a top athlete at the same time.
I think Nathan is in a different sport. No one does what he does.
Aside from that, old ladies like me just want to pinch those cheeks!!!
 

Nadya

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LOL you just described Nathan Chen*, unless of course Nathan doesn’t actually exist.

And a lot of other over- achieving high level skaters who yes, play an instrument at a fairly high level and somehow manage to gasp hang out with friends while still “enjoying the process and the journey.”

Chen is 22 and he took a leave of absence to train for the Olys.

But yeah, let's pretend that you can grab Olympic gold as a recreational pursuit in between classes and parties.
 

bardtoob

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Don’t think Eteri wouldn’t lionized if she was coaching in the US.
Oh, please. I love hating on Evy Scotvold for giving his skaters eating disorders and Fassi for politically taking down challengers to his US skaters. There are some that still like to complaining about Frank Carroll. Then there are the coaches that were banned for life.
 

Xela M

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Sooo many coaches like Eteri in the US in other sports as well - gymnastics and cheerleading are just two of them. Her style of abusive training methods is not unique to Russia (as much as I hate saying anything positive about Russia at the moment)
 

bardtoob

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... everyone in charge turned a blind eye.
It was worse than that. This stuff was reported to law enforcement but there was no follow up. Simone specifically asked Congress, in their hearing, to investigate how or why law enforcement lost the cases because, up to that point, law enforcement never was investigated for their failure. There was some indication that law enforcement might have been bribed with cash or high positions doing nothing in order to keep everything swept under the rug.
 

bardtoob

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Well, Trusova and Scherbakova have them at 17, and Tuktamysheva has triple axel in mid twenties, so very likely they will keep it.

Trusova and Shcherbakova's jump technique is already causing them chronic injuries. They'll barely be competing when they are 18, never mind to their twenties.

Many skaters get injured. Including Hanyu and Chen. How do you know that Trusova and Scherbakova are getting injured because of their jump technique, rather than because of overtraining or because of just a freaky accident?

I am going to interject the observation that Tuktamysheva's technique is fundamentally different than that of Eteri's skaters.

I will also point out that nobody ever said a late career 3A is unique. Midori, Harding, Mao, and Nagasu all competed the jump past the age of 20. However, their technique is more like Tuktamysheva's than any of Eteri's skaters.
 

MacMadame

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Sooo many coaches like Eteri in the US in other sports as well - gymnastics and cheerleading are just two of them. Her style of abusive training methods is not unique to Russia (as much as I hate saying anything positive about Russia at the moment)
I'm not sure that saying other places are bad is saying something positive about Russian sports.
 

Wyliefan

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Sooo many coaches like Eteri in the US in other sports as well - gymnastics and cheerleading are just two of them. Her style of abusive training methods is not unique to Russia (as much as I hate saying anything positive about Russia at the moment)
You're right, it's all over the place. And I don't think anyone particularly WANTS to make it all about Russia. But when these things come to light in Russia and then you get a lot of "Cultural differences!" and "The Russians don't care!" and "They'll make Eteri even more of a hero for this!" and so on ... well, let's just say it seems like Russia in some ways is peculiarly ill-equipped to handle it.

Yes, the U.S. took a TON of convincing that the Karolyis were awful, and we shouldn't have. We should have done so, so, so much better in that regard. But at least -- at the very least -- we weren't throwing the Karolyis a ticker-tape parade once everything was out in the open and confirmed.
 

bardtoob

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Yes, the U.S. took a TON of convincing that the Karolyis were awful, and we shouldn't have. We should have done so, so, so much better in that regard. But at least -- at the very least -- we weren't throwing the Karolyis a ticker-tape parade once everything was out in the open and confirmed.

It is important to note that Don Peters, the once dominant US coach the Karolyis had to subdue politically, is now banned for more direct misconduct than the Karolyis ever did.
 

Miezekatze

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And Monica Aldama at Navarro
I'm watching that Netflix show at the moment and she's getting pretty glorified in that.

Not that she was actually shown doing terrible things in the 2 episodes I saw sk far, but the stretching work on the girls is brutal and looks totally unhealthy and then those nonchalant mentions of "we're of course getting weighed every day.

I haven't found any critical reporting on the show apart from mentioning that's its a very accident prone sport for girls.
 

Xela M

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I'm watching that Netflix show at the moment and she's getting pretty glorified in that.

Not that she was actually shown doing terrible things in the 2 episodes I saw sk far, but the stretching work on the girls is brutal and looks totally unhealthy and then those nonchalant mentions of "we're of course getting weighed every day.

I haven't found any critical reporting on the show apart from mentioning that's its a very accident prone sport for girls.
Watch Season 2 and you will see what I mean. She's horrific (as well as the things going on there).

Eteri of cheerleading
 

Miezekatze

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Watch Season 2 and you will see what I mean. She's horrific (as well as the things going on there).

Eteri of cheerleading
Oh I don't doubt what you wrote, I already was a bit irritated by the way the beginning of the show seemed to portray things overly positive and even then Monica made me spontanously think of Eteri.
 

screech

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Even during season 1 there was a lot of criticism of the coaching. IIRC there was a girl with broken ribs who she forced to continue to do tricks that jostled her injury. SNL even 'spoofed' how horrible it was with regards to injuries.
 

barbk

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Even during season 1 there was a lot of criticism of the coaching. IIRC there was a girl with broken ribs who she forced to continue to do tricks that jostled her injury. SNL even 'spoofed' how horrible it was with regards to injuries.
IMO, even breathing hurts with broken ribs. There is nothing that would not hurt in that circumstance.
 

Miezekatze

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Even during season 1 there was a lot of criticism of the coaching. IIRC there was a girl with broken ribs who she forced to continue to do tricks that jostled her injury. SNL even 'spoofed' how horrible it was with regards to injuries.
I only saw 2 episodes so far, so my impressions aren't complete.
 

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