#Canada150 (Canadian politics and related issues)

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
51,376
I can see it.

500 errors are server errors. 502 is Bad Gateway. I would have expected 504 which happens when a server gets overwhelmed. But basically, a server somewhere in the chain hiccuped.
 
Last edited:

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
51,376

Top Doug Ford Adviser Sent Premier’s Office Backchannel Message About Meeting With Russian Government​

Leaked emails show Russian officials sought help of Ontario PC insiders in an effort to flow Russian money into Ontario amid US sanctions

A trusted adviser to Ontario Premier Doug Ford admits relaying a message to the Premier’s Office about attempts to arrange a meeting between representatives of the Government of Ontario and the Russian Federation.

The backchannel communications involved Russian government officials, expelled diplomats, Russian corporate entities sanctioned by the United States, as well as Ontario PC insiders linked to wealthy Ontario developers.
One of those insiders is Frank Klees, a former Ontario PC cabinet minister under Mike Harris who served as a top adviser and campaign surrogate during Ford’s 2018 leadership bid. Ford has personally described Klees as a “legendary PC Party stalwart and a good friend.”
Ford’s spokesperson, Ivana Yelich, did not respond to questions from PressProgress about Klees’ admission that he sent messages about setting up meetings with the Russian government to the Premier’s Office.
Klees did not respond to follow-up questions from PressProgress about that email, including whether he considered the possibility the message could be a response to US sanctions or that he may be the target of a foreign intelligence operation.
Following Russia’s annexation of Ukrainian territory in 2014, Gazprom Media was placed under sanctions by the United States government and Chernyshenko’s assets were frozen by the United Kingdom – though neither were placed on Canada’s own sanctions list.

In his 2018 letter to the chairman of Gazprom Media, Moore highlighted his access to “corporate, political and government clients” and suggested he could help facilitate “opportunities” for Russian money in Ontario.
In the letter, Moore told Chernyshenko he’s worked with developers along the “Highway 400 corridor,” advised “the DeGasparis family for over a decade” and had an “active relationship with the Ontario government” thanks to his fundraising work for the Ontario PCs.
Wallace told PressProgress that Moore’s claim he was foreign-funded is “total bullshit.”
On September 25, the Russian Consul General sent an email inviting Moore and Wallace to a meeting at the Russian Consulate to promote “bilateral relations” between Russia and Ontario, as well as “exploring possibilities for supporting increased Russian-Canadian … business contracts.”

“I would be delighted to meet with you … to discuss bilateral relations” Moore replied a day later. Emails suggest a meeting did take place in October 2018.

Although the international sanctions on Russian entities and officials was evidently not a top of mind concern at the time, Moore says arranging meetings to facilitate the flow of Russian money into Ontario is not something he would do today.

“At the time, probably a good idea. But not now.”
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
Messages
36,109
I hope and pray for my Liberal candidate Dr. Nathan Stall who is awesome to win! However, I must admit you could not ask for a better opponent in Dr. Jill Andrews. It is a shame she plays for the wrong team. :p
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,743
So, I've only learned to navigate/enjoy Reddit in the last year or so, which has two Ontario forums. (One seemed to be created by more conservative-minded folk fed up with the original, and it's certainly an interesting view to this province I live in.) Recently in the main sub-reddit, a poster shared the reality of living on ODSP, how limiting it is, etc., to remind voters of what's at stake in this election. It was a sad, harrowing read, and it certainly left me grateful I can still work while dealing with a chronic condition myself.

Responses ran the gamut from empathy, to offers of work "under the table," general disparagement, etc., but I was struck by the suggestion of using the fairly recently implement MAiD program-- Medical Assistance in Dying. It wasn't out of nowhere; there is a woman in Toronto who is well her way to have MAiD granted on the terms of "abject poverty." She's on ODSP, she can't afford a better place to live. Her story is one of many.

To me, that's a horrifying and tragic reflection of where our province is at: An extremely high cost of living, paired with failing social programs & a voting public that proves time and again that it doesn't care. I think this is the proverbial canary in the mine, a chance to stop and pull back from being such a selfish/cruel society, but I might be in the minority. And that has shaken me to the core.

I don't know that I care to ask what political party people support anymore. Online, we're all trolls to each other, but I interact with plenty of people I vehemently disagree with politically, who are people of great ethics and values. I feel like we're "artificially" divided more than we are.

Going forward, however, I do think I'm going to ask a different question to get a sense of someone's values, and the temperature of this decaying province: Do you think we have a responsibility to people who are at risk, on ODSP/social programs? Or do you think they need to make use of Medical Assistance in Dying?

Do we care about each other, or are we going to start ushering the "less productive" members of society off to an early grave?
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
13,261
So much for nice Canadians ?

Poor person: I can't make it.

Canadian voters: We will let you die.

Am I understanding this correctly?
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,743
So much for nice Canadians ?

Poor person: I can't make it.

Canadian voters: We will let you die.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Well, I am not a nice Canadian, and I don't think it's right we let people in tough circumstances feel their only option is to depart this earthly plane.

What's sick is many Canadians I know who claim they're nice absolutely WOULD suggest those less fortunate make use of MAiD.

I know this province isn't alone, but we have a really messed-up idea of humanity and what it is to be a good citizen.
 

JasperBoy

Stayin inside
Messages
4,749
British Columbians: I got my ICBC refund. I paid my car insurance on my credit card, so I got a $110 credit for that same card. I prefer that over a cheque where I have to go to the bank and deposit (and wasting gas!).
I got mine too
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
33,771
I can't get my mind around this either. The woman in the story is disabled and has chemical sensitivity issues, but I don't read the story as saying that she also has a terminal disease that is going to kill her. Her problem is that the govt doesn't give her enough money to afford a place that can accommodate her. The solution should be that she gets more funding from the govt, not that she asks for MaID.

I'm not dissing on her for feeling that she has no other options, but this is not what MaID was intended for.
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
Messages
36,109
Blow out for the PCs and the Liberals are really struggling. In my neighborhood I had all kinds of campaign material for the NDP as well as campaign workers. But from the Liberals nothing. Still I am stunned that the Liberals are doing this badly.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,471
So, I've only learned to navigate/enjoy Reddit in the last year or so, which has two Ontario forums. (One seemed to be created by more conservative-minded folk fed up with the original, and it's certainly an interesting view to this province I live in.) Recently in the main sub-reddit, a poster shared the reality of living on ODSP, how limiting it is, etc., to remind voters of what's at stake in this election. It was a sad, harrowing read, and it certainly left me grateful I can still work while dealing with a chronic condition myself.

Responses ran the gamut from empathy, to offers of work "under the table," general disparagement, etc., but I was struck by the suggestion of using the fairly recently implement MAiD program-- Medical Assistance in Dying. It wasn't out of nowhere; there is a woman in Toronto who is well her way to have MAiD granted on the terms of "abject poverty." She's on ODSP, she can't afford a better place to live. Her story is one of many.

To me, that's a horrifying and tragic reflection of where our province is at: An extremely high cost of living, paired with failing social programs & a voting public that proves time and again that it doesn't care. I think this is the proverbial canary in the mine, a chance to stop and pull back from being such a selfish/cruel society, but I might be in the minority. And that has shaken me to the core.

I don't know that I care to ask what political party people support anymore. Online, we're all trolls to each other, but I interact with plenty of people I vehemently disagree with politically, who are people of great ethics and values. I feel like we're "artificially" divided more than we are.

Going forward, however, I do think I'm going to ask a different question to get a sense of someone's values, and the temperature of this decaying province: Do you think we have a responsibility to people who are at risk, on ODSP/social programs? Or do you think they need to make use of Medical Assistance in Dying?

Do we care about each other, or are we going to start ushering the "less productive" members of society off to an early grave?
ODSP pays very little.
 

Desperado

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,310
ODSP is less than $1,200/month. People on Disabily were not eligible for CERB and didn’t get any pandemic bonus $. Most can’t afford a car so no license/plates Ford refund either. There have been no inflation/cost of living increases for them in over 10yrs. If they do any paid work, there’s a clawback.

It’s a cruel, punishing system because society only sees worth in people who can work. When Ford was asked about raising ODSP he responded that people should work.

Many people have “helping others” (flashy galas, volunteering in a way that makes them feel good) and empathy (solely for their family) values, but it’s always all about themselves.

I’m quite disheartened about the Election. The NDP/Liberals had sad sack leaders only in it for their egos. If they had one ounce of empathy for the state of affairs, they would’ve moved out of the way before the Election.

Here’s a great analysis on the subject:

 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,743
As angry as I am at conservatives, conservative voters, and as much as I want to buy into the horrifying minor conspiracy that this election wasn't legit (they implemented a computer counting system... no hand-counting)... I'm JUST as mad at Andrea Horwath & Steven Del Duca. They KNOW what Ford is going to do to this country. They played the same old game when everything is different. This was the time for them to grow the eff up, get over their egos, and be revolutionary to save the province. They don't care about Ontarians any more than Ford does. They care about their political party.

Also, voter Turnout was apparently 38.8%. We 100% did this to ourselves. I can't even blame boomers. (Though if Boomers make up a large percentage of that 38.8, we need to start sending those voters to LTC homes early)

I loved this province. I know we don't have the ocean or mountains, but Ontario is beautiful and I thought it had a great mix of population. But no, I was wrong, and I'm just really done with living here.

ODSP is less than $1,200/month. People on Disabily were not eligible for CERB and didn’t get any pandemic bonus $. Most can’t afford a car so no license/plates Ford refund either. There have been no inflation/cost of living increases for them in over 10yrs. If they do any paid work, there’s a clawback.

It’s a cruel, punishing system because society only sees worth in people who can work. When Ford was asked about raising ODSP he responded that people should work.

Many people have “helping others” (flashy galas, volunteering in a way that makes them feel good) and empathy (solely for their family) values, but it’s always all about themselves.

I’m quite disheartened about the Election. The NDP/Liberals had sad sack leaders only in it for their egos. If they had one ounce of empathy for the state of affairs, they would’ve moved out of the way before the Election.

Here’s a great analysis on the subject:


I love everything about this post.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,471
Ontario did suffer from a massive storm on the May long weekend .. something I never want to experience again. Ottawa got hit really bad, Quebec and all the outlying cities and farms being wiped out. 190 km winds. I believe two towns got hit with tornados. Hydro all wiped out and we got help from the U.S, London, Toronto, New Brunswick and others. With extensive damage to houses etc and people died too .. who knows what effect had on people voting too.

 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
Messages
8,186
As angry as I am at conservatives, conservative voters, and as much as I want to buy into the horrifying minor conspiracy that this election wasn't legit (they implemented a computer counting system... no hand-counting)... I'm JUST as mad at Andrea Horwath & Steven Del Duca. They KNOW what Ford is going to do to this country. They played the same old game when everything is different. This was the time for them to grow the eff up, get over their egos, and be revolutionary to save the province. They don't care about Ontarians any more than Ford does. They care about their political party.

Also, voter Turnout was apparently 38.8%. We 100% did this to ourselves. I can't even blame boomers. (Though if Boomers make up a large percentage of that 38.8, we need to start sending those voters to LTC homes early)

I loved this province. I know we don't have the ocean or mountains, but Ontario is beautiful and I thought it had a great mix of population. But no, I was wrong, and I'm just really done with living here.



I love everything about this post.
I'm 66 years old (dead center Boomer). Sod off.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,743
I'm 66 years old (dead center Boomer). Sod off.
Are you an Ontario conservative voter who helped usher Doug Ford & his cronies back in AFTER they were responsible for the death of many residents of Long Term Care homes in the intervening years?

If not, then I wasn't talking to you, and simmer down.

If you are, then what's the problem? If you believe in the guy, why be afraid of his LTC homes?
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
Messages
8,186
Are you an Ontario conservative voter who helped usher Doug Ford & his cronies back in AFTER they were responsible for the death of many residents of Long Term Care homes in the intervening years?

If not, then I wasn't talking to you, and simmer down.

If you are, then what's the problem? If you believe in the guy, why be afraid of his LTC homes?
I live in Virginia in the USA - but at least I got your attention to say this in follow up...

If you don't want to be shunted off to the side as waste because you belong to a certain cohort of age/sex/gender/orientation/origin, please don't do it to others. That is all - return to your venting.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
33,771
As angry as I am at conservatives, conservative voters, and as much as I want to buy into the horrifying minor conspiracy that this election wasn't legit (they implemented a computer counting system... no hand-counting)... I'm JUST as mad at Andrea Horwath & Steven Del Duca. They KNOW what Ford is going to do to this country. They played the same old game when everything is different. This was the time for them to grow the eff up, get over their egos, and be revolutionary to save the province. They don't care about Ontarians any more than Ford does. They care about their political party.

I follow a Twitter account run by an angry Ontario NDP supporter - not just a voter/party member, someone who's been very involved in constituency associations and the provincial executive. It sounds like there were more than a few ridings where the constituency association chose a candidate and then got overruled by the regional or provincial organization, because they wanted another candidate. Who was usually a brownnoser to those organizations or who said more of the politically correct keywords, but had less elected experience and less knowledge of the riding and its issues than the constituency association's candidate.

I really hope this election debacle will cause some serious re-thinking of this strategy. Although sadly the NDP at every electoral level in Canada is very good at blaming election losses on everything other than the real cause - its own incompetence.
 

Former Lurve Goddess

Well-Known Member
Messages
539
FYI - according to EKOS the demographic least likely to vote for the Conservatives was people over 65. And there’s a huge gender gap, with men much likely to vote for Ford and company. But a sitting Conservative government hasn’t lost an election in Ontario after one term since the 1870s so history is repeating itself again.
 

Desperado

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,310
If you don't want to be shunted off to the side as waste because you belong to a certain cohort of age/sex/gender/orientation/origin, please don't do it to others. That is all - return to your venting.
People, i.e., the silent generation and the first boomers (75yrs old) suffering from dementia, particularly women, have already been shunted as waste in our country. Thousands upom thousands are dead, some of f*cking thirst because of a lack of basic care. That’s the whole point.

But stick to YOU being butt hurt.
 
Last edited:

Former Lurve Goddess

Well-Known Member
Messages
539
I really hope this election debacle will cause some serious re-thinking of this strategy. Although sadly the NDP at every electoral level in Canada is very good at blaming election losses on everything other than the real cause - its own incompetence.
Someone I know who is a long-time activist left wing activist and who has been majorly involved with NDP in the past once told me that the professional politicos who were brought in to “modernize” things have basically ruined the party.
 
Last edited:

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,471
I did my thing .. my liberal candidate got in .. not my choice of mayor… but I knew from the beginning Del Lucca wasn’t going to pull it off. Hopefully someone great steps up for the next election. 😔
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
33,771
Someone I know who is a long-time activist left wing activist and who has been majorly involved with NDP in the past once told me that the professional politicos who were brought in to “modernize” things have basically ruined the party.

They certainly have. The in-house campaign software that the riding associations are forced to use - that manages donor lists, supporter info, etc., - is a mess and is very difficult to run and update.

Also the pros have decided to make the leader the focal point of campaigns, which worked really well with Jack Layton but not so much with his successors. That's why all the campaign literature, in print and online, is generic: "[name of candidate here] part of the [leader] team". There's no room to pitch the selling points of the individual candidate, which really hurts the candidate's chances especially if they have a strong record of local activism.

The Twitter account that I mentioned has also had some very strong discussion around the NDP trying to occupy the "soft middle" progressive ground that the Liberals have pretty much tied up federally: fiscal responsibility while supporting social programs like universal healthcare, subsidized daycare, etc etc. Some of the posters are arguing, and I kind of agree with them, that the NDP has to move more left and actually stand for something different.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information