#Canada150 (Canadian politics and related issues)

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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11,465
Who is Jessica Allen, and what did she say?

Per this link, because I didn't see it, and I don't catch The Social. (Which is better than The View, btw)

During the program on Tuesday, Jessica Allen said she doesn’t “worship at the altar of hockey” and found in her experience that those who did “all tended to be white boys who weren’t, let’s say, very nice.”

She added that “they were not generally thoughtful, they were often bullies.″

As a woman who doesn't care too much about hockey, I unequivocally co-sign everything she said, and I would have gone farther. We had specific hallways to avoid in high school because the hockey boys were such daft pricks. And I don't think enough of them grow out of it, either, evidenced by some friends' husbands and other associates I encounter.

Not only is she accurate, but people getting up in arms over this are being willfully ignorant. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen Canadians get upset about. And it's not like that's a short list.
 

fsfann

Well-Known Member
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3,316
So it's ok to generalize the way she generalized about every hockey player? I'm going to leave it there, because once again, the hypocrisy here is insane. This is no different than Don Cherry painting all immigrants with the same brush.

Her pathetic attempt at an apology/explanation was actually a combination of sad and funny to watch. If anyone here is bored, take a look at that.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
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12,198
So it's ok to generalize the way she generalized about every hockey player?

Yes, because hockey players are not subject to massive discrimination. They are, for the most, in receipt of massive privilege. Visit any local rink in Canada and check out the behaviour of young hockey players. If figure skaters behaved anywhere close to what we see from hockey they would be banned from the rink. NHL players are some of the most revered athletes in Canada. To suggest that a bunch of mostly white, male, hockey players who may make millions of dollars a year are in anyway the same as immigrants targeted because of their religion, accent, or skin colour is absurd.
When a bus full of hockey players is killed in a tragic accident the outpouring of grief across the country is tremendous. That grief is followed up by millions of dollars in donations for scholarships and help for families. When a bus full of immigrant vegetable pickers are killed in a tragic accident it is on the news for one day. I am not saying that the response to hockey players was wrong or bad. I am saying that people need to recognize their privilege and be thankful for it.

Jessica Allen should not have said what she said, but it is not in the same league as what Don Cherry said. Furthermore, this is not Cherry’s first rodeo. He has been making questionable comments for years. Straw, meet the camel’s back.
 

Japanfan

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23,612
Not only is she accurate, but people getting up in arms over this are being willfully ignorant. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen Canadians get upset about. And it's not like that's a short list.

My MIL's late husband was a hockey fan and 'man's man'. I remember his saying much the same: "They are all a bunch of bullies".
 

coppertop1

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1,386
They're saying she disparaged an entire race and gender. It's ironic that the same people who are saying people need to get a thicker skin now crying foul over someone speaking negativity about hockey players.

It really shows the double standard. A rich white man finally faces the consequences of his actions after decades of him making inflammatory statements. and he's perceived as the victim Yet a woman makes some negative comments about hockey players and perfect want her fired..
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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7,390
Allen's comments were poorly worded, and unfortunately her point was lost, which is the same thing that happened with Cherry, but she was willing to apologize, whereas he was more interested in playing the victim.
 

Japanfan

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Allen's comments were poorly worded, and unfortunately her point was lost, which is the same thing that happened with Cherry, but she was willing to apologize, whereas he was more interested in playing the victim.

How dare anyone challenge the great Don Cherry? I don't think it is possible to find anyone with a greater sense of self-importance and entitlement than Don Cherry (thought plenty are on par).
 

coppertop1

Well-Known Member
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1,386
Allen's comments were poorly worded, and unfortunately her point was lost, which is the same thing that happened with Cherry, but she was willing to apologize, whereas he was more interested in playing the victim.

Poorly worded? Please. He knew exactly what he was saying and what he meant to say. He's made a career out saying inflammatory things and it finally bit him in the ass.
 

manhn

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13,129
She had to apologize? How unfortunate. I hope the other hosts supported her.

I like Jess Allen a lot. Thinks she is smart and very funny.
 

fsfann

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3,316
See, this is where it is all lost on me. I have no issue with Cherry being fired. He deserved to be fired for what he said. And he deserved to be fired in the past for past transgressions as well.

But the fact that people can then accept someone who makes generalized statements about another segment of our population is so incredibly hypocritical. I know many kids who play hockey. Kids - who are in Elementary, MIddle & High School - who come from all backgrounds and various walks of life. Are some of them from privileged families? Yeah, for sure. But others have to apply for annual funding from organizations like KidSport in order to play. Do some of the kids who play hockey end up becoming bullies and assholes when they grow up? YEah, I'm sure they do. I know some of them, as I'm sure most Canadians do. I also know a lot of leaders who come from the hockey rink who are the kindest and most generous students around... THey show up to help with community events and volunteer significant amounts of time.

I also know former figure skaters who are the cattiest people around - and don't get me going on their parents. This doesn't mean that all figure skaters and their (usually mothers) are catty bitches...but some of them, yeah, for sure, they definitely are. Is it ok to say that figure skaters are all catty and bitchy based on a few that I know? I"m assuming not, because the ones I'm referencing are females and I guess you can only generalize about white males. lol.

Painting any group of people, regardless of their colour, creed, gender, degree of privilege or whatever is wrong.
 

fsfann

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3,316
Poorly worded? Please. He knew exactly what he was saying and what he meant to say. He's made a career out saying inflammatory things and it finally bit him in the ass.
She. They were referencing what SHE (Allen) said... And her apology was terrible and really pathetic.
 

mag

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12,198
Painting any group of people, regardless of their colour, creed, gender, degree of privilege or whatever is wrong.

Yes it is. But painting the comment about hockey players and the comment about “those people” as the same and as deserving the same punishment is also wrong. Painting Don Cherry, and pretty much every other commentator as having the same history of offensive remarks is also wrong.

The ongoing attempts, which seem to be increasing lately, to make a moral equivalency where is there none drives me crazy. It is like when people say that Trump lies all the time (a fact,) and the retort is “Obama lied, he said I could keep my doctor!” Seriously, are 13,000 or so lies and misstatements in 2.5 years anywhere close to one - which in this case may have actually been the plan at time but was later changed. Seriously? That is is the difference between Don Cherry and Jess Allen. The first may a habit of making questionable comments using charged language and eventually enough was enough. The other said something stupid.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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11,465
So it's ok to generalize the way she generalized about every hockey player? I'm going to leave it there, because once again, the hypocrisy here is insane. This is no different than Don Cherry painting all immigrants with the same brush.

Her pathetic attempt at an apology/explanation was actually a combination of sad and funny to watch. If anyone here is bored, take a look at that.

As I was saying about being willfully ignorant...

Poorly worded? Please. He knew exactly what he was saying and what he meant to say. He's made a career out saying inflammatory things and it finally bit him in the ass.

This -- and a lot of indignant folk are missing this. I have no idea what kind of leash Don had at Sportsnet vs. CBC, but he's been hopping in and out of the fire for a long time. Previous comments weren't bad enough, he's reportedly been at odds with the Rogers brass for awhile. This feels much more of a final straw situation, and a pretty big one at that. Good riddance to another figure of a past we're continually moving away from.

Any comparison of him to Jess Allen's inelegant but incredibly true remarks is absolutely asinine.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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7,390
Poorly worded? Please. He knew exactly what he was saying and what he meant to say. He's made a career out saying inflammatory things and it finally bit him in the ass.
Listening to his interviews, and comments since the HNIC broadcast I don't think he knew what said, anymore than Ron McLean did. If he'd been willing to take steps that Rogers & Sportsnet outlined he would have kept his job.
 

fsfann

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3,316
Yes it is. But painting the comment about hockey players and the comment about “those people” as the same and as deserving the same punishment is also wrong. Painting Don Cherry, and pretty much every other commentator as having the same history of offensive remarks is also wrong.

The ongoing attempts, which seem to be increasing lately, to make a moral equivalency where is there none drives me crazy. It is like when people say that Trump lies all the time (a fact,) and the retort is “Obama lied, he said I could keep my doctor!” Seriously, are 13,000 or so lies and misstatements in 2.5 years anywhere close to one - which in this case may have actually been the plan at time but was later changed. Seriously? That is is the difference between Don Cherry and Jess Allen. The first may a habit of making questionable comments using charged language and eventually enough was enough. The other said something stupid.

I don't disagree with that at all. I certainly never tried to - or insinuated - that they were the same. However, there is certainly a lot of hypocrisy surrounding the entire thing. Don Cherry deserved to be fired. Not only because of this one comment, but because of an ongoing trend to saying these sort of things. Jess Allen may not deserve to be fired, but the fact that people are defending her actions as "perfectly true" and saying that there is nothing wrong with them, is as just as offensive and naive/ignorant as those who are defending Don Cherry.
 

mag

Well-Known Member
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12,198
is as just as offensive and naive/ignorant

And there is the difference. IMHO it is NOT “just as offensive...” for all the reasons people have pointed to in this thread. I think comments like the one she made are lazy and gratuitous but are not the same level of dangerous as the comment made by Cherry. We are not likely to have politicians campaigning to remove the rights of hockey players or to discriminate against people based on their choice of sport. There are no crimes of hate against people for the sole reason that they are a hockey player. There is no equivalence.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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6,779
apparently he got caught using his Party’s fund money to pay for his kids’ private schooling withoutbehind the party’s back:shuffle::shuffle::watch:
WHAT?!?!?!

Anyhoo I’m crossing my fingers and toes for my fellow provincial resident Peter MacKay.

It might be nice for us Nova Scotians to have some friends in high places. :shuffle: :rofl:
 

pat c

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12,466
WHAT?!?!?!
Anyhoo I’m crossing my fingers and toes for my fellow provincial resident Peter MacKay.
It might be nice for us Nova Scotians to have some friends in high places. :shuffle: :rofl:

I don't think they'll put MacKay in as interim. He'll wait until the leadership convention, but with the situation in the west right now, I think the conservative party should be moving back more to the centre and a very safe choice to bring it back that way, is for a leader from the maritimes. Altho, mulling it over, I wouldn't be surprised if Brad Wall isn't boning up on his French as of now. ;)
 

Erin

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9,862
WHAT?!?!?!

Anyhoo I’m crossing my fingers and toes for my fellow provincial resident Peter MacKay.

It might be nice for us Nova Scotians to have some friends in high places. :shuffle: :rofl:

MacKay would be a great choice. I wonder what it would take to convince him to run for the leadership.

ETA - I would be good with Wall too, although who knows if they would go with two Saskatchewanians in a row.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
6,779
I don’t think anyone will be interim.

Scheer said he will stay on until the leadership convention in April.

@Erin, I don’t think it won’t take anything to convince MacKay to run. I’m almost 100% sure he will.:sekret:
 

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