#Canada150 (Canadian politics and related issues)

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,308
I'm guessing a minority government, hopefully a Liberal government. Singh has no chance - not that the NDPs ever really did federally, but Jack Layton was such a fine ambassador for the party. Scheer scares me. He's a weasel. He makes Stephen Harper look honest and competent - much as Trump makes Bush Jr. look like a desirable leader. I hated Bush Jr. (didn't care for Senior either), but when I see him on TV now, I think "what a dear, sweet man".
 
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Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
Messages
9,444
I'm guessing a minority government, hopefully a Liberal government. Singh has no chance - not that the NDPs every really did federally, but Jack Layton was such a fine ambassador for the party. Scheer scares me. He's a weasel. He makes Stephen Harper look honest and competent - much as Trump makes Bush Jr. look like a desirable leader. I hated Bush Jr. (didn't care for Senior either), but when I see him on TV now, I think "what a dear, sweet man".
Just should be in Hague
 

Nell411

Between the click of the light
Messages
2,845
I’m very much dreading this election and I live in one of the safest Conservative ridings in the country. It’s hard to decide who to vote for when this riding has been Conservative for longer than I’ve been alive. I’m going to look at the election results from the last couple of elections and see who came in 2nd to the Tory candidate. I want to vote for whoever might hurt the Conservatives the most.
 

UMBS Go Blue

Personally congratulating Beefy Bruno
Messages
15,350
Another own goal on the PM's part... :yikes::wall:

 
Messages
7,514
This election is so irritating. Trudeau barely seems to be trying, Scheer only cares to attack Trudeau with mostly half-truths or things seriously lacking in context. Which I really don’t understand. There’s plenty of legitimate criticisms of Trudeau. Singh is the only leader that seems to actually be campaigning well but the NDP as a party seems to be kind of imploding.

Locally, there’s barely even any campaign signs up. And I’ve heard next to nothing from any of them.
 

Nell411

Between the click of the light
Messages
2,845
This election is so irritating. Trudeau barely seems to be trying, Scheer only cares to attack Trudeau with mostly half-truths or things seriously lacking in context. Which I really don’t understand. There’s plenty of legitimate criticisms of Trudeau. Singh is the only leader that seems to actually be campaigning well but the NDP as a party seems to be kind of imploding.

Locally, there’s barely even any campaign signs up. And I’ve heard next to nothing from any of them.
Our incumbent had his signs up as soon as the election was announced. The only other person who's announced he's running so far is the People's Party guy. I don't understand why the other 3 parties don't have someone for here yet when we've known when this election was going to happen for ages. I know we're a safe Tory seat but come on.

That said, the Green Party historically gets mocked pretty heavily in my area so God only knows if they'll have a candidate here or not.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,308
:yikes::wall:

Oh dear. Saying he was young and foolish just won't cut it.

I'm really hoping this won't motivate Canadians to vote for Scheer.
 

Buzz

Well-Known Member
Messages
32,751
Oh god make it stop! What was this idiot thinking?! And how come none of this ever came out before?!
 

ilovepaydays

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,929
What I can’t stop thinking (and yes, I thought the same about Gov. Ralph Northam in Virginia in the U.S.) is where was the oppo research? This seems to have been fairly easy for them to dig up.

I’ve known many people who’ve been staff on political campaigns. Usually, candidates considering running for (especially state or federal) office spend time combing through anything about them or their family members that can be used by the opposition against them. This should happen way before they declare their candidacy.
 
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MacMadame

Cat Lady-in-Training
Messages
30,677
One incident shows a lapse of judgement. Two incidents show a moral blindspot. But three incidents, as it turns out? https://globalnews.ca/news/5922861/justin-trudeau-brownface-video1
I don't agree. I don't think there is a magic number. It depends on the context.

So if someone were to do Black Face in this day and age, then I'd say that's disqualifying because everyone really does know better these days. Not 3 times. ONE time.

But if someone did Black Face 10 times (or even 100s) in the 40s, well, that was acceptable at the time. Some people knew it was not okay back then, but most did not. I'd give them a break if they showed understanding that it was wrong today and stopped doing it at some point when they figured out this was actually a bit racist.

Trudeau's incidents fall in the middle of that. So what I want to know is what made him stop and did he continue to do it even after someone explained to him that he was being offensive? Because that's a no-go for me no matter how many or few times he did it.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,643
I don't agree. I don't think there is a magic number. It depends on the context.

So if someone were to do Black Face in this day and age, then I'd say that's disqualifying because everyone really does know better these days. Not 3 times. ONE time.

But if someone did Black Face 10 times (or even 100s) in the 40s, well, that was acceptable at the time. Some people knew it was not okay back then, but most did not. I'd give them a break if they showed understanding that it was wrong today and stopped doing it at some point when they figured out this was actually a bit racist.

Trudeau's incidents fall in the middle of that. So what I want to know is what made him stop and did he continue to do it even after someone explained to him that he was being offensive? Because that's a no-go for me no matter how many or few times he did it.
I have to agree with you MacMadame. I can give Trudeau's HS blackface incident a pass because even in the 1980s and early 1990s, donning blackface for a costume or performance was not completely, entirely frowned upon. But by 2001 when he was an adult and a teacher - by then he should have recognized that it is clearly racist and unacceptable.
 

Choupette

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,957
There was an article in today's newspaper, in French alas: https://www.lapresse.ca/elections-federales/201909/19/01-5241868-justin-et-la-lampe-magique.php

Believe me, I don't mean to defend Trudeau; I don't particularly care about him. I just thought I had perhaps a different perspective to offer. Feel free to make what you want of it.

I've always thought I had solid general knowledge, but the first time I've heard of the term "blackface" was only about 5 years ago. A small end of year review show in Montreal had used one to portrait then Montreal hockey player PK Subban. The stage director was a lady in her 80s. To give you an idea of her background, back in the early 80s, she was probably the first ever author to write parts for a black character and a gay character on French Canadian TV (and both were in the same series).

The blackface controversy came out of nowhere to her, to me, and to a lot of people who had never heard of it. Even our biggest TV show ever in the 80s had a blackface scene that was actually meant to show support towards a black character. It was even replayed many times and no one ever said anything. The director of the series just got honored days ago for coming up with the idea of that character and for another series years later in which the main character was a black woman. Like the old lady, he was a precursor. He was genuinely interested in other cultural communities and wanted to bring it on TV.

It looks like no one in the French speaking culture in Quebec had any idea of the way blackfaces had been used in the United States for decades or centuries. Whenever it was used here, it was never meant to make fun of black people as a group. It was not meant to be racist. Of course, nowadays, with the culture becoming global, now we know about it and have acknowledged it, thus people have become sensitive to it. Since the controversy in early 2015, whenever a black celebrity needed to be portrayed on TV, a black actor would be hired. Blackfaces won't happen again here. But in the early 2000s, no one would have seen it as racist in its essence.

Now, should a 30-year-old teacher around 2000 in Vancouver have known about it? I wouldn't know. But this may have been a notion Justin Trudeau would have come across had he spent his whole life in Vancouver. Maybe, for once, the duality of his French/English background played against him.
 

manhn

Well-Known Member
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12,615
So are people suddenly not going to vote Liberal? People who weren’t, won’t. Shocker.
 
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7,514
So are people suddenly not going to vote Liberal? People who weren’t, won’t. Shocker.
That seems to be the consensus from my social media. If you hated Trudeau before, it’s fuel for the fire. If you are terrified of what Andrew Scheer would do to the country, this hasn’t made any difference. If anything, I think the fact that the Conservative party is behind publicizing this whole debacle makes Scheer look worse in some ways. Nobody likes mud-slinging politics and Scheer seems pretty determined to play gotcha with Trudeau. The only person looking good in all of this is Jagmeet Singh. Does anyone have any insight into why there’s been such a mass exodus of NDP MPs? He seems pretty great from what I’ve seen so far this campaign. Not that it matters to me locally, we don’t have an NDP candidate.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,308
Trudeau actually has a long history of enjoying cos-play. I googled, and a ton of pictures came up.

And was 'blackface' even a term in 2001?
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,312
I'm not sure what to think of JT's blackface, yet. At best, he was a tone-deaf spoiled brat who didn't think about others at the time. And yet I was a university student in Toronto in 2001, and people sometimes did show up in black/brown face, costumes mocking Asians, etc. I knew it wasn't ideal when reports came out about Ted Danson when he dated Whoopi Goldberg in the '90s, but I guess not everyone paid attention to the memo...

So, I don't know - it sucks. It sucks when a politician you didn't hate has garbage like this come up. The good news is it was nearly 20 years ago, and I would think he's shown his values have clearly evolved.

I find the timing a bit interesting. This seems like it should have dropped later, closer to voting day where people react instead of putting anything into perspective. Scheer has done the absolute most to show what a fool he and his disaster of a party are, so did he release it now to try and desperately turn things around? And will it? Why didn't it come up before when he ran against Harper? You can't expect me to believe Harper and his team didn't know about these in 2015?
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
20,943
I find the timing a bit interesting. This seems like it should have dropped later, closer to voting day where people react instead of putting anything into perspective. Scheer has done the absolute most to show what a fool he and his disaster of a party are, so did he release it now to try and desperately turn things around? And will it? Why didn't it come up before when he ran against Harper? You can't expect me to believe Harper and his team didn't know about these in 2015?
Couple thoughts on timing. First is that the closer you get to election date, the more people's minds are made up so it doesn't matter what happens, it's pretty much done (ie Trump's Access Hollywood tape apparently made no significant difference).

Second is that this might be smart timing, because now, it's all anyone is going to talk about. Every candidate knocking on doors and appearing at local events is going to be asked about this, for at least a week or two, so it derails all the other positive news and issues that should be debated, and distracts from other more complicated stories because this is easier to grasp than say, indigenous rights, pipelines, complicated legal cases like Lavalin, economy. This also has the advantage of cringeworthy images (and video!), and pictures so often speak much louder than even the most thoughtful prose.

Third is that people who vote Liberal likely tend to be a bit more upset by this (than say Conservative voters if it was their leader), and feel like they have to take a personal stand. Even if they still plan to vote Liberal (in the privacy of the voting booth), I think this could have a significant effect on the number of people who now openly support the party and its candidates in the form of lawn signs, donations, volunteering at events and going door to door (can you imagine some volunteer trying to field questions about this now?). The Liberal party so often relies on this kind of grass roots support to take them over the finish line, so this could be a very significant blow.

As for Harper, my gut thinking is that he had his own closet full of secrets, starting with what was long rumoured to be an essentially fake marriage.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
6,237
There was an article in today's newspaper, in French alas: https://www.lapresse.ca/elections-federales/201909/19/01-5241868-justin-et-la-lampe-magique.php

Believe me, I don't mean to defend Trudeau; I don't particularly care about him. I just thought I had perhaps a different perspective to offer. Feel free to make what you want of it.

I've always thought I had solid general knowledge, but the first time I've heard of the term "blackface" was only about 5 years ago. A small end of year review show in Montreal had used one to portrait then Montreal hockey player PK Subban. The stage director was a lady in her 80s. To give you an idea of her background, back in the early 80s, she was probably the first ever author to write parts for a black character and a gay character on French Canadian TV (and both were in the same series).

The blackface controversy came out of nowhere to her, to me, and to a lot of people who had never heard of it. Even our biggest TV show ever in the 80s had a blackface scene that was actually meant to show support towards a black character. It was even replayed many times and no one ever said anything. The director of the series just got honored days ago for coming up with the idea of that character and for another series years later in which the main character was a black woman. Like the old lady, he was a precursor. He was genuinely interested in other cultural communities and wanted to bring it on TV.

It looks like no one in the French speaking culture in Quebec had any idea of the way blackfaces had been used in the United States for decades or centuries. Whenever it was used here, it was never meant to make fun of black people as a group. It was not meant to be racist. Of course, nowadays, with the culture becoming global, now we know about it and have acknowledged it, thus people have become sensitive to it. Since the controversy in early 2015, whenever a black celebrity needed to be portrayed on TV, a black actor would be hired. Blackfaces won't happen again here. But in the early 2000s, no one would have seen it as racist in its essence.

Now, should a 30-year-old teacher around 2000 in Vancouver have known about it? I wouldn't know. But this may have been a notion Justin Trudeau would have come across had he spent his whole life in Vancouver. Maybe, for once, the duality of his French/English background played against him.
All of this.

Plus add in that Canada has been very unwilling to even acknowledge that there are racial issues over the years.

It`s only been the last 10-15 years that race issues and racism has even been on the table as a discussion point up here led largely by the Truth and Reconciliation commission and the horrible treatment of Indigenous people's.

Before that, there was largely a "head in the sand" attitude about racism and a thought that we were above all that in Canada (how wrong we were!)

Also, I remember post 9-11 in Canada (and all of North America, really) for a couple of years, you could pretty much say anything you wanted that was racist about Muslims and no one would bat an eyelash at you.

It was a terrible time for that group.

So yes, I could see that no one would care too much about Trudeau's Aladdin costume in that timeframe in society.

Should Trudeau have known better? Probably. But I can see how he wouldn't know better at that time.

I doubt if there is a white person alive in Canada that is Trudeau's age or older that hasn't made racially offensive or prejudice remark or behavior against minorities. Most of us are just lucky no one took photos or videos of it.

But we do mature. Some of us faster than others.

A sincere apology and a commitment to do better goes a long way (at least that is what I have been told when I've messed up, myself!)

When we know better, we do better.

Trudeau has had an excellent record towards visible minorities since becoming Prime Minister.

No other Prime Minister has placed as many minorities in cabinet positions as him.

Yes, it's sad, disappointing and gross to see him in those pictures but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
11,312
Jenny, all good points - except I really hope the Harper rumours aren't true. I don't know, it doesn't sit well with me, even if I have a cousin in Ottawa who will swear on anything holy and unholy that they've witnessed proof. And also I still have a hard time thinking Harper had a line he wouldn't cross for his reasons... If it's true, though, makes one wonder about Scheer even more.

Plus add in that Canada has been very unwilling to even acknowledge that there are racial issues over the years.

It`s only been the last 10-15 years that race issues and racism has even been on the table as a discussion point up here led largely by the Truth and Reconciliation commission and the horrible treatment of Indigenous people's.

Before that, there was largely a "head in the sand" attitude about racism and a thought that we were above all that in Canada (how wrong we were!)
Thiiiiis. Oh, gosh, I love my country but we get in our own way so badly on some things. Canadians LOVE to talk about how terrible racism is -- in the United States. For years, no one could even speak about Indigenous issues without either argument or a quick pivot to another topic. Its infuriating, but hopefully the shift is turning.
 

Desperado

Well-Known Member
Messages
891
I was born and raised in French Quebec and have been annoyed by Trudeau’s mannerisms most of my life [that Brébeuf French accent - a nightmare].

I had no idea “blackface” was a thing with all its meaning until I moved to Ontario in 2003. I was 35. It might even have been even much later than that.

I remember with horror a conversation I had in 2004 where I essentially denied an experience in Montreal was fuelled by racism to a black American woman. :yikes:I have learned more and more about bias, privilege, sexism and racism over these years, but my past behaviour does not allow me to thrown stones in this case.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
20,943
I really appreciate Quebeckers sharing their stories and perspectives on this, very helpful, thank you.
 

Desperado

Well-Known Member
Messages
891
Jenny, all good points - except I really hope the Harper rumours aren't true. I don't know, it doesn't sit well with me, even if I have a cousin in Ottawa who will swear on anything holy and unholy that they've witnessed proof. And also I still have a hard time thinking Harper had a line he wouldn't cross for his reasons... If it's true, though, makes one wonder about Scheer even more.
Not sure what would be the line here? The sham marriage? I abhor Harper, but that would not be something I hold against him. I don’t think Canada is ready, particularly the Cons, to elect a single man as PM, even a divorced one with kids.
 

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