BREXIT - The Final Countdown?

Louis

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,401
:fragile:

I can’t handle this. I’ll vote of course but am conflicted.
I can't vote, but I'm similarly conflicted. I feel your pain.

If I voted on what I wanted, I'd vote Lib Dem, but it's clear that the country isn't there (even if they are polling better than before). This would only result in more division and delay.

If I voted for what I think the country needs, I'd vote Conservative :yikes: to get a reasonably sensible Brexit through so that the country and the EU can move on to other priorities. I'd not have said this even one month ago, before Boris returned from Brussels with a reasonably palatable, concrete deal. In a choice between the known and the unknown, the country needs the known right now (in my view). We can't continue in this uncertainty.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,396
I can't vote, but I'm similarly conflicted. I feel your pain.

If I voted on what I wanted, I'd vote Lib Dem, but it's clear that the country isn't there (even if they are polling better than before). This would only result in more division and delay.

If I voted for what I think the country needs, I'd vote Conservative :yikes: to get a reasonably sensible Brexit through so that the country and the EU can move on to other priorities. I'd not have said this even one month ago, before Boris returned from Brussels with a reasonably palatable, concrete deal. In a choice between the known and the unknown, the country needs the known right now (in my view). We can't continue in this uncertainty.
Yes, I'm in a similar conundrum.
Up until very recently, I was completely on the fence regarding Brexit, because I feel incredibly strongly that the EU is a system that exacerbates economic divides and blocks emerging countries on the fringes from fair opportunities - not to mention throws a number of cushion countries to the wolves (Putin) without any regard for the price of human life our economic ambitions command. (and a million other complex issues but those are the ones that bother me most).

Recently I realised that the privatisation of the NHS is so intrinsically tied to Brexit that it shifts the balance over to probably needing to cancel the whole thing, in my book. So I might vote labour. Maybe. Especially as our local MP is Labour and quite good. Judging by her voting record she's also confused on Brexit matters.
I'm still forever deeply frustrated at the entitled discourse we've been hearing on a loop for the past 2 years, without any soul-searching or level of intellectual integrity regarding the implications of our European privilege on others. It's never been simple, and those who claim it is are the ones I reserve my utmost frustration for.
 
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taz'smum

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,112
Yes, I'm in a similar conundrum.
Up until very recently, I was completely on the fence regarding Brexit, because I feel incredibly strongly that the EU is a system that exacerbates economic divides and blocks emerging countries on the fringes from fair opportunities - not to mention throws a number of cushion countries to the wolves (Putin) without any regard for the price of human life our economic ambitions command. (and a million other complex issues but those are the ones that bother me most).

Recently I realised that the privatisation of the NHS is so intrinsically tied to Brexit that it shifts the balance over to probably needing to cancel the hole thing, in my book. So I might vote labour. Maybe. Especially as our local MP is Labour and quite good. Judging by her voting record she's also confused on Brexit matters.
I'm still forever deeply frustrated at the entitled discourse we've been hearing on a loop for the past 2 years, without any soul-searching or level of intellectual integrity regarding the implications of our European privilege on others. It's never been simple, and those who claim it is are the ones I reserve my utmost frustration for.
I agree with your reasoning, and I too feel that the NHS is a deal breaker.
Though I am concerned that Corbyn is and has always been anti-EU and if he can get his way, he will try to negotiate his form of Brexit before possibly agreeing to a people's vote.

So
Brexit Party = No Deal Brexit
Conservatives =Hard or No Deal Brexit (most likely the latter as it fits in with their plans, see below)
Labour = Soft Brexit and possibly a people's vote
Lib Dem = Revoke article 50

I will vote tactically for whoever can beat the conservatives in my constituency.

The Conservatives will not only sell off the NHS, they will also systematically remove the benefits system (including pensions) to enable their low tax Singapore model.

They believe in the survival of the elite, so if you are dependent on the state pension, then they don't care if you simply die, as that will mean one less burden for their elitist utopia!

I would love to think I have got this all wrong, but everyday there is further evidence of the Conservatives putting everything in place for this model. Facilitating the removal of workers rights, removing controls on NHS drug pricing etc., and this is just the beginning.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,396
They believe in the survival of the elite, so if you are dependent on the state pension, then they don't care if you simply die, as that will mean one less burden for their elitist utopia!

I would love to think I have got this all wrong, but everyday there is further evidence of the Conservatives putting everything in place for this model. Facilitating the removal of workers rights, removing controls on NHS drug pricing etc., and this is just the beginning.
Yes, everything is pointing in this direction. I'm quite sure a party of FSU could govern with decent efficiency but unfortunately we've left things a little late to start campaigning.
 

Louis

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,401
I thought an election was a great idea, but it seems to have brought both Donald Trump and Nigel Farage out of the woodwork.... just what the UK needs. :rolleyes: It's very irresponsible for Trump to be saying that the current Brexit deal would prohibit a trade deal with the US. While that may have been true for Theresa May's deal, it's absolutely false for Johnson's deal. And there is no way in hell that "no deal" would ever lead to a US trade agreement. US Congress will never ratify any trade deal if the outcome of Brexit is a border on the island of Ireland, against the wishes of both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
 

SHARPIE

Brex-shite.
Staff member
Messages
20,121
I’m starting to unfollow a lot of people on Facebook lately, I’m sick of these amateur politicians pushing propaganda on me.

eg



If I vote Labour, I am Marxist and terrorist supporting.

If I vote Conservative, I want the upper classes to burn the sick and disabled for fuel.

If I vote Liberal Democrat,I’m undemocractic.

Any other party I’m wasting a vote.


Just **** OFF! We arent going to magically change our minds just based on your shit! Ugh. I hate Britain right now.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,386
I thought an election was a great idea, but it seems to have brought both Donald Trump and Nigel Farage out of the woodwork.... just what the UK needs. :rolleyes: It's very irresponsible for Trump to be saying that the current Brexit deal would prohibit a trade deal with the US. While that may have been true for Theresa May's deal, it's absolutely false for Johnson's deal. And there is no way in hell that "no deal" would ever lead to a US trade agreement. US Congress will never ratify any trade deal if the outcome of Brexit is a border on the island of Ireland, against the wishes of both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
If they don’t want a border Northern Ireland can try to declare independence and join Ireland
 

taz'smum

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,112
I’m starting to unfollow a lot of people on Facebook lately, I’m sick of these amateur politicians pushing propaganda on me.

eg



If I vote Labour, I am Marxist and terrorist supporting.

If I vote Conservative, I want the upper classes to burn the sick and disabled for fuel.

If I vote Liberal Democrat,I’m undemocractic.

Any other party I’m wasting a vote.


Just **** OFF! We arent going to magically change our minds just based on your shit! Ugh. I hate Britain right now.
@SHARPIE - there is only 1 person to vote for in a time like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU0t9vD0CO8
 

coppertop1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,350
How on earth is Britain going to get out of this mess? If the Conservatives lose, what can the Labour Party do to fix this? It seems like a pyrrhic victory for the Brexiters.
 

Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
Messages
9,460
Media in Britain is very Conservative, including the BBC (they got Andrew Neil). Add to that the Tory party is loaded with money to bombard us with ads. We also the Lib Dem's with their misleading polls. Add to all of this we have Lyndon Crosby and his disciplines spinning the elections for CONS. So, get ready for the CON govt and get ready for the Brexit :wuzrobbed
 
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aliceanne

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,565
How did Britain get into the EU? Was it incremental or was everything decided at once? I notice Britain never adopted the EU currency which seems like a big caveat, so there appear to be degrees of membership.

Asking voters if they want to stay or leave is vague when no one knows what to leave means in terms of their daily life. Does stay necessarily mean maintaining the status quo?

What ever happened to David Cameron?
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
Messages
6,581
How did Britain get into the EU? Was it incremental or was everything decided at once? I notice Britain never adopted the EU currency which seems like a big caveat, so there appear to be degrees of membership.

Asking voters if they want to stay or leave is vague when no one knows what to leave means in terms of their daily life. Does stay necessarily mean maintaining the status quo?

What ever happened to David Cameron?

More to the point...

 

allezfred

Baby Jolly Man Face
Staff member
Messages
55,488
How did Britain get into the EU?
The United Kingdom tried twice to join the then European Economic Community in the 1960s, but both times was vetoed by Charles de Gaulle who believed the UK was incompatible with the EEC. :shuffle:

When de Gaulle relinquished the French presidency in 1969, the third UK attempt to join was accepted and the UK Government signed an accession treaty and formally joined in 1973 (along with Denmark and Ireland).

There was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975 which was easily won by supporters of remain.

Was it incremental or was everything decided at once?
The current EU was negotiated by all member states incrementally through a number of treaties.

I notice Britain never adopted the EU currency which seems like a big caveat, so there appear to be degrees of membership.
Yes, the UK had a number of opt outs that more recently joined member states do not enjoy.

Does stay necessarily mean maintaining the status quo?
Yes.

What ever happened to David Cameron?
He has his trotters up in Nice.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,180
This is not specifically about Brexit, but in general about the problems Europe is facing economically and socially, specifically in relation to migration issues (and the policy with Turkey's Erdogan, etc):

The Death of Europe, Interview with Douglas Murray, about his 2017 book

I don't know much about Murray, but apparently he doesn't realize that Europe has never been 'all-white.'


 
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Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,152
Nigel Farage has announced that the Brexit Party will not contest the 317 seats that the Conservatives won it the last election.
:bloc:

Meanwhile the Brexit Party still has this posted on the front page of its website:
Feelings of Brexit fatigue have led some Leavers to welcome Boris Johnson’s deal as the best we are likely to get. That is understandable. But it is a mistake. The Prime Minister’s deal is not a proper Brexit. It is far removed from what 17.4m of us voted for in 2016. I can only suppose that pro-Brexit MPs backing the deal have not actually read the Withdrawal Agreement (WA) and the important Political Declaration (PD) that goes with it. These make up a new European Treaty that reheats 95 per cent of Theresa May’s deal.
:duh:
 
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Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
Messages
9,460
Boris Johnson in his seat will fight the election against Load Buckethead, Count Binface, Yace "Interplanetary Time Lord" Yogenstein and Bobby 'Elmo' Smith. Even in these choices, I can't see anyone voting for Boris.

 

Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
Messages
9,460
The PanelbaseMD poll finds the leave is 49%(+1) and remain is 51%(-1). The Conservative looks set to win the majority at the next general election unless the youth voters (under 35) come out to vote in large numbers on Dec 12th. Boris Johnson had a shocker of a performance yesterday; so did Swinson, who got hammered for her voting record, Crobin did well, and Sturgeon was excellent. However, Boris has a very loyal base and will turn out to vote, it is the youth that will decide the election and (if) how much the tory majority will be.
 

taz'smum

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,112
The PanelbaseMD poll finds the leave is 49%(+1) and remain is 51%(-1). The Conservative looks set to win the majority at the next general election unless the youth voters (under 35) come out to vote in large numbers on Dec 12th. Boris Johnson had a shocker of a performance yesterday; so did Swinson, who got hammered for her voting record, Crobin did well, and Sturgeon was excellent. However, Boris has a very loyal base and will turn out to vote, it is the youth that will decide the election and (if) how much the tory majority will be.
Can't we just have Sturgeon for PM? She is the only 'proper' leader IMO.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,152
That would work well with global warming, as it will be a very long time before Edinburgh overheats!
The only reason why Mark Twain said that the coldest winter he ever spent was a summer in San Francisco was becasue he had never spent the summer in Edinburgh. :cold:
 

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