Boris Johnson Admitted To Hospital With C-*****

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,961
I find the "Freedom Day" terminology to be awful. It's as if it was specifically chosen to make it politically impossible to return to restrictions. And it's already politically difficult. Health experts shouldn't have to fight the ***** and the politicians too. I hope things work out for the UK. The idea of opening up nightclubs when you're in the midst of a surge seems insane to me. But it is true that deaths have remained way down. Whereas, things look very bad in Russia. We aren't seeing hospitalizations stay down in the U.S. right now. States with over 25 cases per 100K all have hospitals in their hot zones filling up, and Delta didn't get going here until well after the UK.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,067
But the fact remains we are more restricted than last year, so people aren't going to get fooled by Johnson or anyone else saying "freedom" and pretending things are "guidance" and "voluntary" when the reality is they're still mandated.
Do you really think so? I think travel is probably more restricted than this time last year and the rules around what tests/quarantines apply to which countries is completely confusing and risky for people to try and do but other than travelling to a different country I can't see how you can possibly say we are more restricted.

I went out twice yesterday wearing a mask and both times was told by different people (in a friendly not a harassing way) that I didn't have to wear a mask any more and they were fine when I explained I was happier wearing one. But I didn't see any businesses privately choosing to enforce mask wearing.

The supermarket I went to yesterday no longer has people on the door restricting numbers or enforcing mask wearing. Bars and restaurants aren't enforcing mask wearing or social distancing. Table service and social distancing has gone in bars and nightclubs have reopened. I don't see how that is more restrictive than last year.
 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
Messages
2,553
Interestingly, I've noticed mask wearing in shops and on public transport has been higher in the last couple of days now restrictions have lifted than it was a few weeks ago. Maybe people are being more cautious because of how high case numbers are? Or just don't want to be perceived as selfish or reckless?
 

floskate

Vacant
Messages
9,829
I went out twice yesterday wearing a mask and both times was told by different people (in a friendly not a harassing way) that I didn't have to wear a mask any more and they were fine when I explained I was happier wearing one. But I didn't see any businesses privately choosing to enforce mask wearing.
I'm waiting for this. How dare people who I'd be willing to bet have harped on about freedom of choice for months, then decide they have the right to approach you in an unsolicted manner and discuss your choice. Friendly or not, the nerve of these people! I did pop to Tesco yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to see most people still wearing masks and I will continue to wear one. But woe betide the muppet who dares to even say anything to me about wearing it!!
 

Hedwig

WoolSilk Fanatic
Messages
18,973
I understand the sentiment, floskate, but it can also just be information
For instance, at field hockey training for my son we parents always had to wear masks which I found onerous since it was outside and I was not talking to anybody but sitting on the grass and reading a book.
so when that rule was lifted I was thankful when someone informed me of it. The rules changed weekly here about everything and I could not keep up with them.
 

floskate

Vacant
Messages
9,829
I understand the sentiment, floskate, but it can also just be information
For instance, at field hockey training for my son we parents always had to wear masks which I found onerous since it was outside and I was not talking to anybody but sitting on the grass and reading a book.
so when that rule was lifted I was thankful when someone informed me of it. The rules changed weekly here about everything and I could not keep up with them.
Given the ongoing debate on mask wearing which takes place on TV multiple times a day across many different programmes, there is no way I couldn't have heard that we are no longer required to wear them. Mask wearing is as devisive here as Brexit! And I'm afraid I don't see someone who can't wait to not wear a mask and then decides to inform me I don't need to either is well intentioned. Call me bitter but there we are :lol:
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,997
Do you really think so? I think travel is probably more restricted than this time last year and the rules around what tests/quarantines apply to which countries is completely confusing and risky for people to try and do but other than travelling to a different country I can't see how you can possibly say we are more restricted.

I went out twice yesterday wearing a mask and both times was told by different people (in a friendly not a harassing way) that I didn't have to wear a mask any more and they were fine when I explained I was happier wearing one. But I didn't see any businesses privately choosing to enforce mask wearing.

The supermarket I went to yesterday no longer has people on the door restricting numbers or enforcing mask wearing. Bars and restaurants aren't enforcing mask wearing or social distancing. Table service and social distancing has gone in bars and nightclubs have reopened. I don't see how that is more restrictive than last year.
I'd guess the feeling probably is pretty individual depending on what one misses the most.

I have the impression for Louis it's very important to be able to leave GB and travel (which I also find understandable considering the family in the US), so I'd guess he probably feels the new freedoms inside GB are not of that much use to him and he feels stuck.

For example in Germany we still have stricter rules than in GB, but travelling when fully vaccinated has some risks with quarantine rules, but from Germany you could always still travel to Italy, France, Austria, Switzerland, Eastern Europe by car and even with rules changing that can be done sort of spontanously, because the rules don't tend to change within one day and tons of people ARE travelling...

So while our rules inside Germany are stricter, in some areas, I'd guess we have more freedom.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
16,021
Do you really think so? [...] I didn't see any businesses privately choosing to enforce mask wearing.[...]

The supermarket I went to yesterday no longer has people on the door restricting numbers or enforcing mask wearing. Bars and restaurants aren't enforcing mask wearing or social distancing. Table service and social distancing has gone in bars and nightclubs have reopened. I don't see how that is more restrictive than last year.

No difference in London at supermarkets - masks still de facto required, and the door counters were still there as of Monday. We'll see if the change is gradual. I guess indoor dining with no capacity limits will be a big change? (Did that ever happen last summer? I can't even remember all the rule changes.) It's so freaking hot that I don't want to go anywhere indoors anyway. :lol:

I don't mind wearing a mask - just :rolleyes: x infinity at this farce where the same rules exist, it's just private sector enforcing them. The UK government does a great job of creating rules and passing on enforcement to the private sector. Everything from "right to rent" checks onwards. I'm not going to a nightclub anytime soon, but I feel badly that now they're expected - at the last minute - to check for vaccination status by September. Of course, the cynic in me expects we'll be back in lockdown by the time they finish their technology upgrade to do all of the checks.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,997
We currently have indoor dining with no capacity limits in Germany :lol:

I think the rules between countries are so different it's really hard to compare anything.

We tend to have strict rules in some areas and other areas have very lax rules, which is what makes many people frustrated with rules.

We do have the whole system for checking vaccination status and test status though, there are apps and everything prepared, just not being used yet now, because the numbers are still rather low.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,997
We do? 😂 I did not know that.
I certainly dont feel like indoor dining.
Maybe it also depends on the state, since of course currently all states have their own set of rules again.

In Baden-Württemberg there's no capacity restrictions for indoor dining as long as the 7-days-incidence is under 35. Over 35 it turns into "3G" plus 2,5 square meters per person.

I ate indoors at the hotel breakfast buffet, but we sat next to an open window at least.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
42,612
We'll see if the change is gradual.
FYI, it has been here in the Bay Area. The day we lifted all restrictions, I'd say at least 75% of all businesses did not change their rules in any significant way. But now, a month later, almost all businesses have no signs about masks for they have a sign that says "Vaxx = No Mask, No Vaxx = Mask". So it took about a month to things to gradually change.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,997
FYI, it has been here in the Bay Area. The day we lifted all restrictions, I'd say at least 75% of all businesses did not change their rules in any significant way. But now, a month later, almost all businesses have no signs about masks for they have a sign that says "Vaxx = No Mask, No Vaxx = Mask". So it took about a month to things to gradually change.
I think the situation in the UK is sort of special though, since they lifted all restrictions just when the numbers are extremely high. I'd guess in such circumstances businesses might just decide to keep restrictions to reduce risk.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
42,612
I think the situation in the UK is sort of special though, since they lifted all restrictions just when the numbers are extremely high. I'd guess in such circumstances businesses might just decide to keep restrictions to reduce risk.
I haven't seen anything in the UK in the past year to lead me to think that will happen. It sounds more like the way YKW is approached in Germany than in the UK. ;)
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,067
I think the situation in the UK is sort of special though, since they lifted all restrictions just when the numbers are extremely high. I'd guess in such circumstances businesses might just decide to keep restrictions to reduce risk.
In fact Johnson, the moron, has suggested just that. The government are doing away with all restrictions (because his own libertarian back benchers will oust him if he keeps official restrictions in place) and are expecting business to continue to enforce (exactly as @Louis says). But businesses are looking 50/50 around here.

Mr Antmanb is changing nothing in his shop - no mask, no entry. No walk-ins, appointments only. All throughout he's kept the door locked so people have to knock to get their attention, if they knock and they don't have an appointment and a mask they're not coming in.

Some other shops in the area are the complete opposite.
 

michalle

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,345
She has locked her tweets.

eta: I've looked into it further and it was apparently untrue.
 
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michalle

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,345
I think at some point news organizations are going to need to develop some kind of ethical guidelines in terms of how they use information sourced from facebook, twitter, or instagram. If there are factual claims, they need to be verified before they are shared in an article. That doesn't apply to this situation, where the tweet was debunked before it made it into the actual news (as far as I can tell) but it does apply to others.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,997
I find the UKs current approach kind of schizophrenic.

The whole point of isolation and quarantine is to get the ***** spread under control and keep it from spreading uncontrollably.

But if you open everything up and lift all restrictions and still isolate everybody who gets in contact with a positive person, that combination of actions sort of obviously won't work :shuffle:
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,451
Dr Kraemer says, ‘As new variants emerge, we expect they will spread significantly before travel restrictions are put in place, as likely happened with the Delta variant. Given the scale of its current outbreak, it seems probably that the UK is now an important exporter of the Delta variant across Europe and some other parts of the world.
Not the kind of thing that the UK should be exporting! :duh:
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,997
The Delta variant is long dominant in Europe already, I don't think the UKs current outbreak can be blamed on that. It already has been spreading here for months and it#s about at 85% in most of Europe right now.

I think it started spreading in middle Europe at about the same time as in UK, just with a bit of a delay because there's a lot less family and business connections to India.
 

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