Best ice dance team that did Not win the OGM

Pick the Best Ice dance team that did not win OGM (though competed)

  • Usova/Zhulin

    Votes: 36 22.2%
  • Krylova/Ovssianikov

    Votes: 21 13.0%
  • Papadakis/Cizeron (2018)

    Votes: 49 30.2%
  • Belbin/Agosto

    Votes: 7 4.3%
  • Wilson/McCall

    Votes: 6 3.7%
  • Denkova/Staviski

    Votes: 19 11.7%
  • Bourne/Kratz

    Votes: 9 5.6%
  • Duchesnay/Duchesnay

    Votes: 6 3.7%
  • Lobacheva/Averbukh

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 3.7%

  • Total voters
    162
  • This poll will close: .

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,376
One thing the 2002 FDs had over the 2006 ones despite both being trainwrecks was that at least 2002 had personality and in a way the programs reflected the teams themselves, even if it was their worst traits. 2006 went out of its way to give the ISU what they wanted in 1994. Really stock routines that didn’t show off the character of the teams at all, save all three D/Ss.

Why did Fusar-Poli/Margaglio choose The Prince of Egypt for their FD in Italy? Drobiazko/Vanagas came back to let us know that the movie version of Phantom of the Opera was now available for all skaters. Navka should have killed it as Carmen but hers was just smilie with pained Biellman face. B/A should have highlighted their exuberance and youth like their past routines when they were moving up the ladder but instead they gave us a flavorless Flamenco and there was so much crap that version of IJS made the ice dancers do that there was no room to have choreography that actually fit the timing and rhythm of a flamenco. Grushons, a slow as molasses team doing The Feeling Begins? Really now…no wonder she wore tassels, she had to keep our attention somehow. I liked but didn’t love all three D/Ss routines but DelShoes had the best FD of the field two seasons in a row.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,259
One thing the 2002 FDs had over the 2006 ones despite both being trainwrecks was that at least 2002 had personality and in a way the programs reflected the teams themselves, even if it was their worst traits. 2006 went out of its way to give the ISU what they wanted in 1994. Really stock routines that didn’t show off the character of the teams at all, save all three D/Ss.

Why did Fusar-Poli/Margaglio choose The Prince of Egypt for their FD in Italy? Drobiazko/Vanagas came back to let us know that the movie version of Phantom of the Opera was now available for all skaters. Navka should have killed it as Carmen but hers was just smilie with pained Biellman face. B/A should have highlighted their exuberance and youth like their past routines when they were moving up the ladder but instead they gave us a flavorless Flamenco and there was so much crap that version of IJS made the ice dancers do that there was no room to have choreography that actually fit the timing and rhythm of a flamenco. Grushons, a slow as molasses team doing The Feeling Begins? Really now…no wonder she wore tassels, she had to keep our attention somehow. I liked but didn’t love all three D/Ss routines but DelShoes had the best FD of the field two seasons in a row.
I've ranted elsewhere on the board but at least 90% of the content in the first few iterations of COP, as it was called at that point, is just unwatchable. So generic, everyone doing the same moves for big points, a lot of skaters/teams not even knowing the finer details of some of the rules and losing out on points because of it, all of the PCS being clumped typically in the 7's for the top skaters or even lower, etc and it making much less sense than it does even today... The dancers fell into that same fate and the majority of it was senseless and boring.

Dance that year was pretty bad across the board, but on top of the D/S's I also really liked Dubreuil/Lauzon and was happy they came back for Worlds so successfully. I will never understand FP/M's choice, though, even if it was better than that 2002 mess.
 

michalle

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,508
I'm surprised to see the Duchesneys so low - for this one I went with just best overall and disregarded the unfortunateness of their Olympic year program.This poll has a lot of teams I love so it's a tough choice but at their best I think the Duchesneys were something really special. I know their technique has been criticized and I didn't expect them to be #1, I'm just a little startled they have so few votes. Has their star faded so much over the years?
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
Papadakis and Cizeron for me, as an evidence. Their technique and unisson are so perfect.

What's sad for them is that they probably would've won the gold medal in 2018 if it hadn't been for that costume problem in the short dance. I hope they win in 2022 but I honestly fear that political judging might prevent that from happening. I remember being really shocked when they lost to S&K.
 

nuge

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,080
What's sad for them is that they probably would've won the gold medal in 2018 if it hadn't been for that costume problem in the short dance. I hope they win in 2022 but I honestly fear that political judging might prevent that from happening. I remember being really shocked when they lost to S&K.
I wasn't shocked that they lost to S/K. They lost by a tiny amount .They had mistakes that's all. They'll be back!
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,096
I'm surprised to see the Duchesneys so low - for this one I went with just best overall and disregarded the unfortunateness of their Olympic year program.This poll has a lot of teams I love so it's a tough choice but at their best I think the Duchesneys were something really special. I know their technique has been criticized and I didn't expect them to be #1, I'm just a little startled they have so few votes. Has their star faded so much over the years?


They’re not a trendy team to like any more. A lot of people now seem to view them as essentially posers who had to rely on unusual moves or programs to win because they lacked the classic technique/skills of Russian teams. Personally I feel like their creativity and charisma and performance quality are underrated.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,376
The Duchesnay’s lack of difficulty and technique really does hurt them in my assessment, especially when they competed against a team like Klimova/Ponomarenko who simply blew them out of the water when it came to skating skills and dance skills. Even in their rightfully legendary performance to “Missing I”, Bezic admitted that D/D may have out-performed Klimova/Ponomarenko but they didn’t out-skate them, and it’s true. Looking at the sheer blade work, there was a vast difference. I also think it doesn’t help that D/D had to return to the Missing to win Worlds and then their Olympic programs didn’t play to their strengths at all. That said, D/D had something you couldn’t teach- they were able to hit one’s soul and they forced a huge change in ice dance with Dean’s vision. They forced Klimova/Ponomarenko to change their styles and they made the ISU so scared that they forced ice dance to go backwards creatively and artistically by a few decades, which hurt it for a while despite some teams (like G/P and A/P) deciding to kind of ignore the “ballroom” directive by the late 1990s.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
Messages
59,854
Lol I don’t think anything will ever top 2006 Dance at the Olympics. That was the splat fest of all splat fests

Whoever was still upright at the end of the free received medals! It did not matter at all what program they skated to, the only challenge was to be vertical
But it was memorable! 2014 was an absolute snoozefest unless you were the type of Janny come lately ice dance fan who thought emotionally stunted choreography was cutting edge.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,515
But it was memorable! 2014 was an absolute snoozefest unless you were the type of Janny come lately ice dance fan who thought emotionally stunted choreography was cutting edge.
Yes, the most exciting things about 2014 ice dance was the photo finish podium at Worlds, I/K's dramatic breakup, and Pechalat ending up with a movie star.

The 2006 Olympics gave us The Glare, it is therefore a great event in the annals of skating history.
 

floskate

Vacant
Messages
9,829
Not voting for P&C because I am hoping they win in Beijing so agree they shouldn't be on here as their careers aren't over.

I'm a fan of vintage ice dance so Min & Mo for me. 1976 wasn't their time even though they won the 1975 Worlds with P&G having to withdraw due to Gorshkov's pneumonia. Having won worlds in 1977, they were on course to win in 1980 but the politiks were against them and L&K ended up overtaking them in 1978 and winning in Lake Placid over Min & Mo and Regoezscy & Sallay who were also more deserving of the OGM than the winners. But when it comes to ice dance my heart rules my head.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
Not voting for P&C because I am hoping they win in Beijing so agree they shouldn't be on here as their careers aren't over.

I'm a fan of vintage ice dance so Min & Mo for me. 1976 wasn't their time even though they won the 1975 Worlds with P&G having to withdraw due to Gorshkov's pneumonia. Having won worlds in 1977, they were on course to win in 1980 but the politiks were against them and L&K ended up overtaking them in 1978 and winning in Lake Placid over Min & Mo and Regoezscy & Sallay who were also more deserving of the OGM than the winners. But when it comes to ice dance my heart rules my head.

Part of the problem in 1978 was that Min and Mo fell at the very very end of their free dance. But I wonder if they would've placed second anyways since they were in second after the OSP. L&K had some very nice compulsories (for that era anyways) but their free dances were such chores to watch.

I also wonder if there was any bad blood between the two Soviet teams. At the 1980 Olympics during the medal ceremony, Regoezscy & Szallay shook hands with L&K but when M&M stepped onto the podium, there was no acknowledgement between them and L&K.
 
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floskate

Vacant
Messages
9,829
Part of the problem in 1978 was that Min and Mo fell at the very very end of their free dance. But I wonder if they would've placed second anyways since they were in second after the OSP. L&K had some very nice compulsories (for that era anyways) but their free dances were such chores to watch.

I also wonder if there was any bad blood between the two Soviet teams. At the 1980 Olympics during the medal ceremony, Regoezscy & Szallay shook hands with L&K but when M&M stepped onto the podium, there was no acknowledgement between them and L&K.
It surely was political. Min & Mo had a major stumble at the beginning of their WSS FD in Strasbourg at Europeans but still won. I agree L&K had the better compulsories (certainly by 1980 where we have actual evidence) but also agree their FD's were just hard work! Min & Mo were also pushing the envelope with WSS and then '79 with a new style and by Worlds a new 'do' for Irina. But they had always been heavily criticised as @SkateGuard details here:

http://skateguard1.blogspot.com/2017/09/min-and-mo-much-maligned-muscovites.html
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,241
It surely was political. Min & Mo had a major stumble at the beginning of their WSS FD in Strasbourg at Europeans but still won. I agree L&K had the better compulsories (certainly by 1980 where we have actual evidence) but also agree their FD's were just hard work! Min & Mo were also pushing the envelope with WSS and then '79 with a new style and by Worlds a new 'do' for Irina. But they had always been heavily criticised as @SkateGuard details here:

http://skateguard1.blogspot.com/2017/09/min-and-mo-much-maligned-muscovites.html
That was an interesting read. Thanks for that
 

synian

Well-Known Member
Messages
231
I'm surprised to see the Duchesneys so low - for this one I went with just best overall and disregarded the unfortunateness of their Olympic year program.This poll has a lot of teams I love so it's a tough choice but at their best I think the Duchesneys were something really special. I know their technique has been criticized and I didn't expect them to be #1, I'm just a little startled they have so few votes. Has their star faded so much over the years?
I know it is in french but google translate can help understanding ... the influence of the duchesneys .... https://www.eurosport.fr/patinage-a...eux-fois-les-duchesnay_sto8197897/story.shtml
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
Messages
34,273
The difference between A/P using MLK and L/A doing a 9/11 tribute was that L/A and their coaches were living closer to Manhattan than the majority of people in the US. Even if they weren't across the street, like Tutberidze was from the Oklahoma City bombing, they experienced it as many Americans did.
 

escaflowne9282

Reformed Manspreader
Messages
3,340
The difference between A/P using MLK and L/A doing a 9/11 tribute was that L/A and their coaches were living closer to Manhattan than the majority of people in the US. Even if they weren't across the street, like Tutberidze was from the Oklahoma City bombing, they experienced it as many Americans did.
While I am sure both couples had noble intentions with their FDs- for me -A&Ps was merely tacky ,I mean yeah the theme was Liberty ,but MLK for an ice dance program? And people want to critique P&C for a pretentious use of the spoken word as a program theme :rolleyes:

Whereas, L&A's FD truly had aspects that bordered on tasteless ( tattered rags as costumes, ash in their hair, axel jumps imitating falling, plus the timing of the Olympics)

I understand that their coaches felt a personal connection to the event and I respect that.
It's just looking back on that whole event years later, both teams programs are just :wideeyes:
 

escaflowne9282

Reformed Manspreader
Messages
3,340
After all these years, I still don’t get the criticism of Anissina/Peizerat’s free. :shuffle:
Honestly, my number one complaint is that it was boring and it felt like they just threw in MLK voice overs to say "See, the theme is Liberty ".

Give me Carmina Burana, MITIM, R&J, heck even Beethoven's Last Night, anyday. I was absolutely a fan of theirs , but I hate that it's that particular program by them that won them the OGM.
I will admit. I did like their costumes.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
51,724
While I am sure both couples had noble intentions with their FDs- for me -A&Ps was merely tacky ,I mean yeah the theme was Liberty ,but MLK for an ice dance program? And people want to critique P&C for a pretentious use of the spoken word as a program theme :rolleyes:

Whereas, L&A's FD truly had aspects that bordered on tasteless ( tattered rags as costumes, ash in their hair, axel jumps imitating falling, plus the timing of the Olympics)

I understand that their coaches felt a personal connection to the event and I respect that.
It's just looking back on that whole event years later, both teams programs are just :wideeyes:
LA- those tattered rags, ash in their clothes, etc. Were based on their personal experience of 9/11. A/P's FD was cheesy, to please the American audience, and had nothing to do with hiw they felt about MLK. Based on tech A/P deserved to win, but their F/D was one of the worst OGM FD.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,376
LA- those tattered rags, ash in their clothes, etc. Were based on their personal experience of 9/11. A/P's FD was cheesy, to please the American audience, and had nothing to do with hiw they felt about MLK. Based on tech A/P deserved to win, but their F/D was one of the worst OGM FD.
They weren't at the World Trade Center or lower Manhattan at the time. They have as much "personal experience" of 9/11 as most of other people in the Tri-state area who have varying degrees of direct loss but I don't know many who would wear tattered rags, put ashes in their hair, and dance to a song with lyrics like "there's a time to die" mere months after it happened with huge O-faces while vying for a gold medal and then have the gall to complain about the lack of response from the American audience and continue to make comments bashing America for not appreciating their dances for a year afterwards (combining it with their lame rock n roll FD where it showed that they didn't really get how to dance or interpret rock n roll).

To me, it just read as an excuse for L/A and Linichuk to do the usual DRAMATIKKK Russian-style FD and not go outside their wheelhouse even after the ISU directive to skate to more "uplifting" music...aka dance music that would get the audience clapping and bouncy because 1) it was their strength and 2) they know serious/dramatic/artsy/pretentious FDs trump dancey/fun FDs to the judges' eyes.
 

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