Baby Question

[Susan1]

Hi everybody that knows everything about everything...My cousin's daughter is due December 15. She just got a text from her doctor that they want to do a special ultrasound on Monday because last week's showed the baby had shorter arms and legs than normal. There was also one months ago that showed that. She's due in a week. What good is doing all these ultrasounds now? The baby is going to come out however he is going to come out. And they want to do genetic testing because my cousin, who is gay, used a sperm donor 23 years ago, so they don't know if there is dwarfism in his family. None in the baby's father's family. Wouldn't that have been something to do earlier in the (unplanned) pregnancy?

I don't know what I'm asking for. I need somebody to talk me down so I can talk her down. Reading scary stuff on the internet is not doing us any good. Man...............

 

[Skittl1321]

You're right, the baby will come whatever they do now. The testing however helps the doctors to know what to be prepared for - if there needs to be a NICU team in the delivery room, if specialists need to be called in.

It is weird they didnt start all this when the last ultrasound showed the same thing though.

Genetic testing early in pregnancy is only done if the screenings cause concern- and that mostly only screens for trisomy 13, 18, and 21. If there were no other flags they wouldn't do it unless requested, and it sounds like this didn't show until very late. Many women don't even have ultrasounds after 20 weeks.

I hope everything turns out okay. Unknowns are very scary.

 

[Deleted member 1204]

She got this kind of news from her doctor by text? Wow.

If her due date is December 15, most genetic screening won't even be back by the time she delivers. Another ultrasound won't add anything at this point. I would advise her to decline both of them. I work in the NICU and I can tell you that the majority of times that short limbs are suspected on prenatal ultrasound end up with a normal baby after delivery, but not always. If there are any concerns after the baby is born, they will probably start out with a skeletal survey, which are X-ray films that look at the bones of the body. Based on the pattern of abnormalities seen, they will decide what genetic testing to do. There is no "dwarf panel" of blood tests that screens for everything. Most of the testing looks for a specific gene mutation for a specific syndrome, so you need more information from the physical exam and X-rays to guide decision-making about which tests to send.

I now it's difficult, but try to stay off the internet. Most of the information there is good information, but it is unfiltered and you will get mired in things that are most likely irrelevant. And most of all, try not to let this uncertainty overshadow the wonderful experience of having a baby.

 

[clairecloutier]

This must be very hard for your cousin to deal with now. Hope everything turns out okay--let us know. With any type of special needs/unusual health condition in a child, the best thing is to just find out the situation as soon as you can (after birth) and get all the help you can from medical/early development professionals. I would follow @mikey's advice--try not to read too much on the Internet, it usually doesn't help and just scares you.

 

[Susan1]

This must be very hard for your cousin to deal with now. Hope everything turns out okay--let us know. With any type of special needs/unusual health condition in a child, the best thing is to just find out the situation as soon as you can (after birth) and get all the help you can from medical/early development professionals. I would follow @mikey's advice--try not to read too much on the Internet, it usually doesn't help and just scares you.

Thanks. Yeah, she's in Cincinnati, I'm in "Dayton", her family is in Columbus. The baby's "father" is in Columbus - a total deadbeat (accidentally let things go too far..........). Cousin (Lynn) has been on disability for back problems since 2007. Just recently got a pinched nerve in her shoulder and is SUPPOSED to go to PT three times a week. Pregnant daughter, CS, is supposed to graduate from college in June, while working practically full time at a mall store. She is on Lynn's insurance, but the baby won't be. They have applied for welfare for the baby. And now a possible special needs baby. Holy Hell!!!!! Is it too late for me to go to church and light a candle?

You hear about these things from lower class families, but they are not. They've had a nice house in the suburbs since before CS was born. Lynn made good money before the disability (Master's in social work). They have lots of friends and are active in their church, will help anybody with anything. I just don't get it.

No more internet. But these doctors seem to be jerks. Tell a relative young single mother there is something wrong with her baby and make her wait till Monday. Lynn said she could count on one hand the number of times she's seen CS cry since she was a baby. I'm just venting.............

 

[Susan1]

You're right, the baby will come whatever they do now. The testing however helps the doctors to know what to be prepared for - if there needs to be a NICU team in the delivery room, if specialists need to be called in.

It is weird they didnt start all this when the last ultrasound showed the same thing though.

Genetic testing early in pregnancy is only done if the screenings cause concern- and that mostly only screens for trisomy 13, 18, and 21. If there were no other flags they wouldn't do it unless requested, and it sounds like this didn't show until very late. Many women don't even have ultrasounds after 20 weeks.

I hope everything turns out okay. Unknowns are very scary.

Couldn't they just be prepared without scaring people to death? I asked (emails 2-3 times a day!) if they had noticed anything else that would cause this concern. Haven't heard back yet. Can't babies just have shorter arms and legs? (Wouldn't it show that the head was larger than normal?) Although Lynn and CS and "the father" are all above average height. (Every female on this side of the family is 5'6" or more.) Never mind; I know that doesn't mean anything if it's genetic somewhere. Thinking and typing....

Lynn has sort of been in denial, thinking they were doing all these extra ultrasounds to turn in for insurance. So, maybe not. They should have been more forthcoming. I guess it wouldn't have made any difference.

 

[Susan1]

If her due date is December 15, most genetic screening won't even be back by the time she delivers. Another ultrasound won't add anything at this point. I would advise her to decline both of them. I work in the NICU and I can tell you that the majority of times that short limbs are suspected on prenatal ultrasound end up with a normal baby after delivery, but not always. If there are any concerns after the baby is born, they will probably start out with a skeletal survey, which are X-ray films that look at the bones of the body. Based on the pattern of abnormalities seen, they will decide what genetic testing to do. There is no "dwarf panel" of blood tests that screens for everything. Most of the testing looks for a specific gene mutation for a specific syndrome, so you need more information from the physical exam and X-rays to guide decision-making about which tests to send.

I am sending this part of your post to Lynn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(But then, I, personally, would go ahead with something like that for myself because the suspense would be killing me!!!)

 

[clairecloutier]

Sorry to hear this, @Susan1 ... A tough situation. Hope everything works out well on delivery and the baby has normal-length limbs. Just bear in mind, if there's any kind of issue, it's no reflection of your cousin's familial or financial situation. Special needs problems and genetic issues happen across the income spectrum. Hopes & prayers. If there is a problem (which is hopefully not the case), there will be resources your cousin can turn to.

 

[Susan1]

Sorry to hear this, @Susan1 ... A tough situation. Hope everything works out well on delivery and the baby has normal-length limbs. Just bear in mind, if there's any kind of issue, it's no reflection of your cousin's familial or financial situation. Special needs problems and genetic issues happen across the income spectrum. Hopes & prayers. If there is a problem (which is hopefully not the case), there will be resources your cousin can turn to.

Yeah, I'm typing like you can read my mind!!! I didn't mean the special needs problem had anything to do with their situation. It's the monetary problems, unwed mother thing that seems like an "inner city" thing. She's not even a teenager. They just have so many other problems that they were handling together. Lynn has been planning to take care of the baby so that CS can finish school on time and get a good accounting job, even with her physical limitations. And CS worked 10 hours on Black Friday because she will only get 2 weeks paid vacation to have the baby!!!!

I think I mentioned in another thread that this is CS's finals week. Like she's really going to be able to concentrate now. I think when the first ultrasound showed possible problems (and Lynn goes to all appointments with her), they should have prepared them for what it's going to take to care for a special needs baby. (They just got both cars fitted with baby seat bases, and took both of them to be inspected for correctness at the fire station.) Rambling again...........

 

[Susan1]

And, the doctors told them the delivery was going to cost around $5,000. Is that the cost of a normal delivery? Or did they mean because there were probably going to be problems? How much more is all this going to cost right off the bat? (DBD <deadbeat dad> was supposed to give her $500 a couple months ago. Had to spend it on musical equipment. Grrrrrrrr.)

It's like a bad soap opera.

 

[clairecloutier]

And, the doctors told them the delivery was going to cost around $5,000. Is that the cost of a normal delivery? Or did they mean because there were probably going to be problems? How much more is all this going to cost right off the bat? (DBD <deadbeat dad> was supposed to give her $500 a couple months ago. Had to spend it on musical equipment. Grrrrrrrr.)

I would look this up online, @Susan1, or call the hospital's billing department for more information.

From what I've read, I think this price is not unusual for delivery.

 

[once_upon]

Charts I found indicate a normal non complicated vaginal delivery in a hospital in your area range between $6000- 8800. C-section non complicated are anywhere 8800 - 12, 500.

So yeah

 

[Skittl1321]

Couldn't they just be prepared without scaring people to death? .

Yeah. I couldn't imagine a doctor relaying news by text. That's insane. I've had a few things told to me by phone and even that was horrific, and there was someone there to talk me through it (who to her credit, did make sure I wasn't driving...)
But there is pretty much no way to tell a pregnant woman something possibly could be wrong without causing immense worry. Especially since google makes it 1,000x worse.

 

[Susan1]

I would look this up online, @Susan1, or call the hospital's billing department for more information.

From what I've read, I think this price is not unusual for delivery.

Nah, it's none of MY business - just thinking about what Lynn has mentioned a couple times. And my thoughts just come spewing out of my fingers. CS's delivery is covered under Lynn's insurance. The baby's (Peyton) complications will not be.

 

[Susan1]

Yeah. I couldn't imagine a doctor relaying news by text. That's insane.

Lynn used the word OUTRAGED!!!!!

I had an CT on my head in 1996, went back to work, came home and had a message on my machine from a neurosurgeon's office to call them IMMEDIATELY to schedule an MRI. I almost fainted.

 

[Simone411]

I'm sorry, but I've NEVER heard of such!!! The doctor sent a text message??? Talk about crazier than crazy!

 

[danceronice]

And, the doctors told them the delivery was going to cost around $5,000. Is that the cost of a normal delivery? Or did they mean because there were probably going to be problems? How much more is all this going to cost right off the bat? (DBD <deadbeat dad> was supposed to give her $500 a couple months ago. Had to spend it on musical equipment. Grrrrrrrr.)

It's like a bad soap opera.

That sounds normal, at least based on the ream of paperwork Blue Cross sent me when they had to add all that pregnancy/women's health crap in that I had opted out on my old plan. They included the cost of hospital delivery without insurance and it was in the $7000 ballpark, I remember because from where I was sitting that didn't sound that bad. Of course that was for a normal, uncomplicated vaginal delivery with two-night hospital stay. C-section and complications would I'm sure raise the cost.

And I'm tempted to ask my friend who's a professor of fetal and maternal medicine and specialized in high-risk pregnancies if she would ever, ever send a message about more testing for a possible fetal skeletal abnormality as a TEXT but I probably won't bother as I'm pretty sure she would say "Hell no." I mean, unless the patient had expressly said that she ALWAYS preferred texts over phone calls, that seems incredibly casual.

 

[Susan1]

I mean, unless the patient had expressly said that she ALWAYS preferred texts over phone calls, that seems incredibly casual.

Mayyyyy-be. When CS is not at school (classes/studying), she is at work. Lynn says she only comes home to eat and sleep.

Went back and checked Lynn's email of Thursday -

"Oh, one more thing about CS. She has to have another ultrasound (scheduled for this Fri.) because they want to make sure Peyton's kidneys are growing correctly so that when he is born he will be able to urinate safely. Neither one of us asked about what would happen to him if they weren't developing correctly. Sometimes I think the doctors just order tests to make money, this is like her 4 or 5 one. I remember at least 2. One to determined the sex, and another because they thought his legs weren't growing fast enough and thus he would be a dwarf. Thanks goodness the next ultrasound showed that his legs were developing just fine."

So yesterday they weren't developing just fine? They must have had a good reason to do an US on the kidneys. Why are these extremely intelligent women not paying attention. Or are the doctors quacks? She also wrote last night that they will love him no matter what. Well, duh. That doesn't mean they should not take the doctor's concerns and precautions seriously.

 

[Skittl1321]

She has to have another ultrasound (scheduled for this Fri.) because they want to make sure Peyton's kidneys are growing correctly so that when he is born he will be able to urinate safely. Neither one of us asked about what would happen to him if they weren't developing correctly.

My recent pregnancy the fetus had kidney enlargement/abnormality. They told me this was very common in boys, so it might mean absolutely nothing, and usually it resolved itself. If it doesn't resolve, my hospital had scheduled a pediatric nephrologist consult for the kidneys and urinary tract. They discussed with me the possibility of corrective surgery, or possibly a required transplant. But it was all a "wait and see"; because possibly the baby would be born with no kidney/urinary tract problem at all.

I know you say money is tight- is she on Medicaid? I really hope that all these things turn out to be nothing, but she should see if the hospital has a social worker who can help her find out if there is any financial assistance available to her.

Why are these extremely intelligent women not paying attention

Having just been through a similar situation, it can be very difficult to remember what is going on during these stressful appointments. It is hard to hear something might be wrong, and things get fuzzy. My hospital system has an online "mychart" system though that lets me go in and re-read tests. That helps. But your cousin's daughter should CALL and demand to talk to people until she understands what is going on. No one should be unsure of their health situation.


I would really really recommend you just stay off the internet. There is nothing that can be done before the baby gets here. It isn't worth scaring yourself. Wait to find out what you are dealing with.

 

[vesperholly]

She has to have another ultrasound (scheduled for this Fri.) because they want to make sure Peyton's kidneys are growing correctly so that when he is born he will be able to urinate safely. Neither one of us asked about what would happen to him if they weren't developing correctly.

I mean ... if she's due in a week, it seems a bit late for that kind of test no? And like something they ought to have looked at the first 4 times. I've never been pregnant so I'm not sure how many ultrasounds are "normal".

 

[Skittl1321]

I mean ... if she's due in a week, it seems a bit late for that kind of test no? And like something they ought to have looked at the first 4 times. I've never been pregnant so I'm not sure how many ultrasounds are "normal".

I mean ... if she's due in a week, it seems a bit late for that kind of test no? And like something they ought to have looked at the first 4 times. I've never been pregnant so I'm not sure how many ultrasounds are "normal".

If they suspect something is wrong you get a lot of them. My pregnancy had serious issues (I'm trying not to hijack the thread so PM if you really want to know more) I was scheduled for biweekly ultrasounds from 26 weeks until 35 and then weekly until my due date just to track how the issues were developing. I met with specialists the baby wasn't expected to see until 3 to 6 months just so they could get an idea of what was going on.

Even though she will deliver soon, they want to keep an eye to see how things are, including if they've gotten better and there is no issue.

I would want the doctor to review my previous ultrasounds with me. Did the problem just develop? Had it been there all along? Ultrasounds aren't perfect, so it may not have been visualized.

It does seem late to do genetic testing. My FISH was back in 3 days but that was only for trisomy 13, 18 or 21 which don't sound suspected here. The micro-array took 9 days and I was told that was quick. Maybe they just want to get it started because they don't want to add yet another blood draw to all the pokes and jabs the baby has to deal with when it's born?

I'm so sorry for any women who has to go through this. Just being pregnant is hard enough.

 

[maatTheViking]

I think it is always a good idea to ask for the purpose for ANY testing, such as:

What is the purpose of the test? What can it help diagnose? What can it NOT diagnose?
What happens if I don't do the test/ultra sound, how will it affect the baby? Will not doing the test prevent any treatments at his point?
Is there any advantage of doing it now vs later (for the genetic screening).

In his case, it might be that doing the bloodtest now is financially a advantage, maybe the grandmothers insurance pays more than Medicare?

It also might be related to the doctors liability, if they don't offer the test maybe she has some rights to complain/sue. Sometimes healthcare gets like that.


I think the mom and grandmom are probably stressed, tired, uncomfortable, in pain, nervous, excited, and everything else that comes with having a baby + not the best circumstances (such as studying and working full time). Doctors are in a position of authority, and it can be hard to question them.


Btw since she unfortunatly has to go back to work so soon, I think most insurances has to cover a breast milk pump. Not sure if it will be moms or baby's, but she should look into it. Not going into the breast milk vs for formula here, but breast milk is a lot cheaper!

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I think I mentioned in another thread that this is CS's finals week. Like she's really going to be able to concentrate now.

She (or if she wants her to, her mom) can contact her professors and ask for extensions on all the finals, and even incompletes for her classes if that would help her. She can contact the office of student disabilities and they will also help her get the incompletes/extensions.


The hospital has a social worker. She (or her mom can do this) can arrange to see the social worker, and the social worker can help her with insurance for the baby, maybe WIC for she and the baby, and other potential financial support. The social worker can also tell her if she might be able to take longer off from work, with disability paid by the state, for the six weeks most states allow.

If she has not done so, she must, must go to court to get the father on the hook, legally, for child support. I see too many moms not do this. She needs to. It's for the kid.

I hope the baby is well.

 

[Susan1]

She (or if she wants her to, her mom) can contact her professors and ask for extensions on all the finals, and even incompletes for her classes if that would help her. She can contact the office of student disabilities and they will also help her get the incompletes/extensions.


The hospital has a social worker. She (or her mom can do this) can arrange to see the social worker, and the social worker can help her with insurance for the baby, maybe WIC for she and the baby, and other potential financial support. The social worker can also tell her if she might be able to take longer off from work, with disability paid by the state, for the six weeks most states allow.

If she has not done so, she must, must go to court to get the father on the hook, legally, for child support. I see too many moms not do this. She needs to. It's for the kid.

I hope the baby is well.

Let's see - she talked to her professors when she found out when she was due and they said they would "work something out" with the finals. This was before they knew about the possible complications. She is determined to graduate in June. Lynn said if this would have happened her junior year, CS probably would have not gone back.

They've already done the social worker/lawyer stuff - WIC, child support, a will. Lynn told me all the details when we met for lunch a month ago, which I forget. But they really seemed to have everything covered. Heck, they have had lists of what to take to the hospital, who to call, directions to the hospital from various places for months. Very organized.

She is only part-time at a store at the mall. She works as many hours as she can without being full time. I don't think they even have to give her paid time off. But she will get two weeks paid vacation. She's worked there since high school, so you would think they will be accommodating if she has to take off more time.

 

[Susan1]

She is only part-time at a store at the mall. She works as many hours as she can without being full time. I don't think they even have to give her paid time off. But she will get two weeks paid vacation. She's worked there since high school, so you would think they will be accommodating if she has to take off more time.

Duh!!! I just thought of this in the bathroom (TMI?). When my real estate selling boyfriend worked at Office Depot part time, he got two weeks pay from accrued hours worked, without taking "vacation". (He cashed in his "vacation pay" when we went to the Hocking Hills for three days, then came back to his regularly scheduled work hours.) So that must be what Lynn meant. She'll get two weeks pay however long she is off to have the baby. Any time off after that would just be she's not scheduled to work so she wouldn't get paid. Brain storms come in the strangest places!

 

[meggonzo]

Is she in the US? I work a full-time job with benefits, and would only get two weeks of paid leave for birth or adoption. FMLA allows for unpaid leave. Unfortunately, for a part-time job, it sounds like they are accommodating her by giving her 2 weeks paid leave.

 

[Xela M]

Wow, that makes me appreciate Europe a lot more. In the UK, the absolute minimum standard maternity leave for a woman is 6 months and many big companies extend it to 1 year. And of course, giving birth in hospitals is free for everyone on the NHS.

 

[Japanfan]

Wow, that makes me appreciate Europe a lot more. In the UK, the absolute minimum standard maternity leave for a woman is 6 months and many big companies extend it to 1 year. And of course, giving birth in hospitals is free for everyone on the NHS.

Same in Canada - usually mat leave is for about one year. Sometimes Employment Insurance payments contribute to the cost of time taken off.

We have paternity leave as well, though it's not for as long as maternity leave. And IIRC there was a system that allowed mother and father to divide the total leave between them as they liked. I don't recall whether this was in England or Canada, though.

 

[Habs]

Same in Canada - usually mat leave is for about one year. Sometimes Employment Insurance payments contribute to the cost of time taken off.

We have paternity leave as well, though it's not for as long as maternity leave. And IIRC there was a system that allowed mother and father to divide the total leave between them as they liked. I don't recall whether this was in England or Canada, though.

In Canada, actual "maternity" leave is three months. The other nine months are classified as "parental" leave and can be split between the parents in any way they choose. Most women take the full allotment, which is why the whole time period is commonly called maternity leave.
When Mini-Habs was born, I took the entire 12 months. When Baby Habs is born in a few weeks, I'll be taking 10 months and Mr. Habs is taking the other two.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

@Susan1 I hope everything is well with the baby. My fingers are crossed.

 

[Susan1]

In Canada, actual "maternity" leave is three months. The other nine months are classified as "parental" leave and can be split between the parents in any way they choose. Most women take the full allotment, which is why the whole time period is commonly called maternity leave.
When Mini-Habs was born, I took the entire 12 months. When Baby Habs is born in a few weeks, I'll be taking 10 months and Mr. Habs is taking the other two.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

@Susan1 I hope everything is well with the baby. My fingers are crossed.

Not a hijack! It's all baby related.

When I worked for a very large company back in the 90's (U.S.), my boss took the 6 week paid maternity leave, her two of her three weeks' vacation and then a month of unpaid family leave. I had a color coded calendar for all that, which included two paid holidays that didn't count against her leave in another color. And I had to do a special attendance report each week. Fun times.