Anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and anti-Christian incidents, reports, etc.

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,261
Excuse me but that’s ridiculous. The ADL uses the same research methods as it did under Foxman and no one has challenged their research or statistics.
Buried within the report is the admission that it's not always possible to know the motivations. Yet that catchy headline gets clicks :rolleyes:
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
Messages
32,121
Buried within the report is the admission that it's not always possible to know the motivations. Yet that catchy headline gets clicks :rolleyes:
And yet they use the same methods they did ten years ago but only now it’s convenient to doubt their credibility.
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,261
And yet they use the same methods they did ten years ago but only now it’s convenient to doubt their credibility.
No, it's only now convenient to doubt when the director is agenda driven. I know enough about statistics and how you can massage the numbers. And this study is quite flawed, by his own admission.
No doubt, the extreme Left and Right have something in common (more than they think) but it's also interesting that the white supremacists who committed the attacks are NOT Trump supporters and accuse him of being Jew-friendly, citing his support for Israel and his family.
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
Messages
32,121
Fine. I’m still waiting to see if campus BDS supporters start shooting up synagogues; until then I’m not taking refuge in this ‘both sides’ nonsense. That crap really is agenda-driven.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
52,871
I wonder what people are even talking about here.

I'm not convinced there is any organized anti-semitic violence in the United States. What there is are individuals who take cues from anti-semitic discourse in various venues and then act out violently.

The reality is that the far right venues are more prone to violent language and the idolizing of guns and weapons. Hence what we've seen is almost exclusively far right connected anti-semitic violence in the US.

Left wing anti-semitism on campuses in particular is a real thing and causes discrimination and harassment of Jewish students.

Do we need to argue about whether it is suddenly going to morph into mass killing? Its not impossible that an individual would take a cue from far left messages and act on it but its just less likely than the individuals who get their cues from 8chan and other hate channels on the internet.

Are BDS activists going to organize pogroms? Probably not.

Are white nationalists going to march into bookstores and disrupt events? Yes, but that isn't violent.

There's a lot of stuff g oing on and everyone with an agenda can pick and choose but I think its better to try to realize where the violence is coming from, that is disaffected if not deranged individuals, usually male, the same as with all mass shooting events. I wouldn't rule out more ISIS-inspired versions of this either and if it we want to call that leftwing I suppose we can although I don't think BDS activists are really sympathetic to ISIS.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
11,503
Rep. Ihlan Omar and Rep. Jan Schakowsky wrote a joint op-ed for CNN.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/443602-ilhan-omar-and-illinois-dem-co-author-op-ed-on-threat-of-white-nationalism?bcmt=1

“As a Muslim American and a Jewish American elected to the United States Congress, we can no longer sit silently as terror strikes our communities. We cannot allow those who seek to divide and intimidate us to succeed,” Omar and Schakowsky write. “Whatever our differences, our two communities, Muslim and Jewish, must come together to confront the twin evils of anti-Semitic and Islamophobic violence.
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,993
It seems like Tlaib is saying Palestinians loved Jews and would have shared a state with them happily but Jews wanted their own state and destroyed their excellent relationship with Palestinians.
Tlaib is trying to rewrite history. The Palestinian leadership during WWII collaborated with the Nazis and was responsible for the death of Jews in (or trying to get to) the Middle East. She is even more scary and disturbing than I thought. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, we should all be horrified at anyone attempting to rewrite history to suit their agenda.

http://jcpa.org/article/palestinians-arabs-and-the-holocaust/
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
52,871
Tlaib is trying to rewrite history. The Palestinian leadership during WWII collaborated with the Nazis and was responsible for the death of Jews in (or trying to get to) the Middle East. She is even more scary and disturbing than I thought. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, we should all be horrified at anyone attempting to rewrite history to suit their agenda.

http://jcpa.org/article/palestinians-arabs-and-the-holocaust/
Are you referring to her recent comments? Because she said nothing about this history. She talked about her feelings about what had happened and how she deals with it as someone whose family was dispossesed. She did not say anything about the Palestinian leadership in WWII.

The only "scary" thing about Rashida Tlaib is that she is a Palestinian and therefore has a different view than the only narrative allowed by reactionary supporters of Israel. This is a reality that isn't going away because there are many Palestinian-Americans.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
52,871
Even those defending Tlaib have noted her comments are garbage: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/14/rashida-talib-anti-semitism-ihlan-omar-talker/3665083002/

But anyone can spin her comments any way they choose.

I think anyone who uses the words "calming" and "Holocaust" in the same sentence is making their views pretty clear.
If you believe that then there's no point in saying anything else.

For me, I've never seen such cynical and hateful politics as that practiced by Liz Cheney. She is the face of Hate.

We have proto-Nazis in our midst welcoming Viktor Orban in the White House.

First they came for the Muslims, then they came for the Palestinians and god damn they will then come for the Jews, don't fool your self that you are safe.

ETA: What Liz Cheney is doing has nothing to do with a concern for Jewish People whom she has no problem exploiting for her far right political agenda. Her goal is division and the creation of fear and hostility that is needed to divide. The goal in this case is to divide and hopefully destroy any effectiveness of the Democratic Party because the far right is a small minority that can only thrive when the majority is divided against itself. The far right's agenda is white nationalism which includes anti-semitism though the "mainstream" far right tries to keep that part hidden. It will come out when they have created the conditions they need by spreading lies, hate, hostility and division.
 
Last edited:

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
52,871
Here's a column discussing the dangers of false accusations of anti-semitism by the far right:

Hatred of Jews terrifies me. So do false accusations of antisemitism (The Guardian)

For while rightwing violence against Jews has been on the rise in the US, conservative and centrist commentators have increasingly used the label of “antisemitism” for everything but.

As someone who is intimately familiar with the dehumanizing violence that antisemitism entails, it is not only offensive to see the term cheapened by false usage on the right: it terrifies me for that cover it gives to the real antisemites who want to see me dead.

...This recent history shows a vicious cycle: as antisemitic violence on the right gets ever more dangerous, false accusations of antisemitism are weaponized by the right as political cover. And as this slander is repeated more and more, it comes to take over our popular definition of antisemitism, therefore making it harder to recognize, call out and stop the real thing.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,432
Palestinians did not in any way shape or form give help Israel be created. All those wars against Israel after its creation are totally assisted by Palestinians
Are you referring to her recent comments? Because she said nothing about this history. She talked about her feelings about what had happened and how she deals with it as someone whose family was dispossesed. She did not say anything about the Palestinian leadership in WWII.

The only "scary" thing about Rashida Tlaib is that she is a Palestinian and therefore has a different view than the only narrative allowed by reactionary supporters of Israel. This is a reality that isn't going away because there are many Palestinian-Americans.
Yeah! She created her own fantasy where Palestinians gave land to Israel even though it cost them their dignity because they are such great people who love Jews!
 

Susan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,000
https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/coming-kkk-rally-dayton-prompts-flurry-protest-training/0Yg6INARsZ1QmJZN7FWDIP/

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/dayton-police-discuss-klan-rally-security-tonight/Tw9DG3vlO87TlF4r0A7qSM/

Made it to Chicago -
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-dayton-ohio-ku-klux-klan-rally-20190514-story.html

They'll probably show it on CNN and give these vile people coverage.

They interviewed a guy blurred out on t.v. the other day who said they have to cover their faces so their families don't get targeted. Well, holy freakin' duh - you mean you might be doing something decent people would think is wrong?:duh:

Forgot this - "A ceremonial cleansing of Courthouse Square on May 26, the day following the Honorable Sacred Knights’ rally, will be similar to the NAACP’s response after a 1994 KKK rally in the public space. ":cheer2:
 
Last edited:

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,242
Here's a column discussing the dangers of false accusations of anti-semitism by the far right:

Hatred of Jews terrifies me. So do false accusations of antisemitism (The Guardian)
I'd take that column more seriously if it didn't try to convince me that antisemitic rhetoric is not antisemitic.

People on the left who make antisemitic comments should be criticized. People on the right are hypocritical in calling this out given their side's issues with antisemitism. These two things are not mutually exclusive. Each side needs to hold its people accountable when they say and do things that are unacceptable.

It is true that antisemitic violence has mostly come from the right. But there are those on the left who excuse some very ugly rhetoric and abusive behavior by claiming that they're merely anti-Zionist. Leaving aside why it's acceptable to deny only Jewish Israelis the right to self-determination, that claim, even at face value, is not a get out of jail card that should be used to normalize antisemitic discourse.

To avoid the usual "can't anyone criticize Israel without being accused of antisemitism" - there's plenty of things to be criticized with respect to Israel's leadership and policies, without using antisemitic tropes.

For the record, I felt that Rashida Tlaib's recent comments, while poorly expressed and historically inaccurate, where not antisemitic.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
52,871
That column cites someone trying to call Pete Butigieg anti-semitic for criticizing Sheldon Adelson.

The people using charges of anti-semitism that way as political tools are making it harder to call out real anti-semitism on the right and on the left.
 

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,242
That column cites someone trying to call Pete Butigieg anti-semitic for criticizing Sheldon Adelson.
That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Obviously, criticizing Sheldon Adelson is not in itself antisemitic.

The people using charges of anti-semitism that way as political tools are making it harder to call out real anti-semitism on the right and on the left.
It's not hard to call out the use of antisemitic tropes on either side. It does require good faith rather than excusing it on whichever side is more convenient to the speaker.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
52,871
That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Obviously, criticizing Sheldon Adelson is not in itself antisemitic.


It's not hard to call out the use of antisemitic tropes on either side. It does require good faith rather than excusing it on whichever side is more convenient to the speaker.
You and I don't agree on what constitutes anti-semitism as we've seen previously. I don't think its that easy. And I think it is highly politicized.

I guess by your take I am biased and just concerned with what is convenient to my agenda. Unlike you.

Honestly, is there anywhere for people who disagree to find some way to see each other as acting in good faith anyway?
 

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,242
I guess by your take I am biased and just concerned with what is convenient to my agenda. Unlike you.

Honestly, is there anywhere for people who disagree to find some way to see each other as acting in good faith anyway?
I think you're acting in good faith; we've communicated here (and elsewhere) long enough for me to know this about you.

But the same is not true for some of the people who are perfectly happy to call out antisemitism - so long as it's by those they disagree with politically. If someone is only concerned with antisemitism when it's politically convenient, then it's not antisemitism that they're truly concerned about.
 

AxelAnnie

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,091
Even those defending Tlaib have noted her comments are garbage: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/14/rashida-talib-anti-semitism-ihlan-omar-talker/3665083002/

But anyone can spin her comments any way they choose.

I think anyone who uses the words "calming" and "Holocaust" in the same sentence is making their views pretty clear.
I found that comment utterly shocking. Beyond shocking. I read and read it trying to make it say something other than what she said.
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
Messages
32,121
I'd take that column more seriously if it didn't try to convince me that antisemitic rhetoric is not antisemitic.

People on the left who make antisemitic comments should be criticized. People on the right are hypocritical in calling this out given their side's issues with antisemitism. These two things are not mutually exclusive. Each side needs to hold its people accountable when they say and do things that are unacceptable.

It is true that antisemitic violence has mostly come from the right. But there are those on the left who excuse some very ugly rhetoric and abusive behavior by claiming that they're merely anti-Zionist. Leaving aside why it's acceptable to deny only Jewish Israelis the right to self-determination, that claim, even at face value, is not a get out of jail card that should be used to normalize antisemitic discourse.

To avoid the usual "can't anyone criticize Israel without being accused of antisemitism" - there's plenty of things to be criticized with respect to Israel's leadership and policies, without using antisemitic tropes.

For the record, I felt that Rashida Tlaib's recent comments, while poorly expressed and historically inaccurate, where not antisemitic.
Her comments were awkward but dozens of mainstream Jewish leaders agree not anti Semitic. She never claimed Palestinians welcomed thousands of Jewish refugees (and with the Jewish state in view, why the hell would they.) she said that it calmed her to know that at least her people’s tragedy provided a home to people who needed one, which is a very generous POV.
 

Zemgirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,242
Her comments were awkward but dozens of mainstream Jewish leaders agree not anti Semitic. She never claimed Palestinians welcomed thousands of Jewish refugees (and with the Jewish state in view, why the hell would they.) she said that it calmed her to know that at least her people’s tragedy provided a home to people who needed one, which is a very generous POV.
That's similar to how I read it, though I do think she gave Palestinians in the British Mandate perhaps a bit more credit than they deserve.

Obviously, this disregards a lot of actual history (most notably that the establishment of Israel is not solely due to the Holocaust), but it takes the Palestinian historical narrative in a more generous direction than many others have done. Though I do wish she'd admit that her sentiment was not well-expressed, and this is a subject that does require both caution and clarity.
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,261
Her comments prompted the posting of pictures of Palestinian leadership collaborating with the Nazis. So yeah, a bit more credit there.
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,993
Tlaib is a member of Congress. Yes, she's new, and every elected official has had a gaffe at one point, but she did not get elected (or get to a place in the community where she was a viable candidate) by making "awkward" comments. I think we should assume that she is saying exactly what she intended.
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
Messages
32,121
Tlaib is a member of Congress. Yes, she's new, and every elected official has had a gaffe at one point, but she did not get elected (or get to a place in the community where she was a viable candidate) by making "awkward" comments. I think we should assume that she is saying exactly what she intended.
She’s not an experienced politician. I’d volunteer as her Communications Director to drill her in the pitfalls of this topic, especially while the GOP is weaponizing antisemitism at every opportunity. While Trump entertains Orban, who ran an anti Semitic campaign, at the White House and he still hasn’t disavowed the Charlottesville Nazis.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,697
Actual Nazis crashed a Holocaust Remembrance event and Arkansas Tech has a scholarship named after a professor who thought Holocaust denial was a valid historical viewpoint and has no intentions of renaming that scholarship but it's comments made by a single Muslim woman that dominate the discussion. (Here and on the internet in general).
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,432
She’s not an experienced politician. I’d volunteer as her Communications Director to drill her in the pitfalls of this topic, especially while the GOP is weaponizing antisemitism at every opportunity. While Trump entertains Orban, who ran an anti Semitic campaign, at the White House and he still hasn’t disavowed the Charlottesville Nazis.
Trump being a Nazi doesn’t excuse anything anti zionists say that are wrong or even also anti Semitic
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 18, Guests: 5)

Top