Americans using Facebook to meddle in Ireland's abortion referendum

oleada

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I’ve never had to take a pregnancy test before an x-ray (though it’s been a while) but they do ask me the day of my last period. They did make me take a pregnancy test before my last Pap smear even though my gynecologist had prescribed me birth control for years and knew I didn’t get periods on birth control.

I hope Ireland does the right thing and legalized abortion. Women’s lives are at stake.
 

Twilight1

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Ironically enough most western countries get their protocols on healthcare from the World Health Organization. They kind of provide a benchmark to set standards of care.

It is a work in progress but you can find many procedural best practice via them, or they are referenced in healthcare treatment manuals on a regular basis around the world.
 
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allezfred

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If you’re on vital medication contra-indicated for pregnancy and you become pregnant in Ireland..... well I think you can guess the rest.
 
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allezfred

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Diabetes, epilepsy, you name it.....

I have a friend whose daughter has severe epilepsy and is made take a pregnancy test every time she goes to her doctor for a new prescription.
 

Skittl1321

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Diabetes, epilepsy, you name it.....

I have a friend whose daughter has severe epilepsy and is made take a pregnancy test every time she goes to her doctor for a new prescription.
That is just so scary. It effectively tells women they can't become pregnant if they also value their own health.

I know there have been Catholic hospitals in the US that wait until women are on the verge of immediate death to treat them for if the treatment means termination of the pregnancy; just being nearly dead wasn't enough. But even still, in the end, the women are usually treated, usually....

I personally have been on the wrong end of a state termination limit when I found out my baby was non-viable. Everything early pregnancy was 100% fine, all the testing we had indicated nothing was wrong until 25 weeks when a small birth defect was detected and 26 weeks when major ones were at a different hospital (the limit at the time was 24 weeks). My health was not in danger at the time, but no pregnancy is benign and life threatening conditions can develop at any time, and while all women should make their own decision, I consider it inhumane to force a woman to carry a pregnancy a pregnancy to term. Especially with maternal mortality as high as it is here. Our state is even MORE restrictive now (any heartbeat), essentially outlawing abortion until it is struck down.

The doctors at the hospital that treated me for the second pregnancy suspect I was lied to my first pregnancy so that termination would be illegal. They said the birth defects were much too severe to not have been detected at 16- and 20-week ultrasounds. I will no longer go to a Catholic hospital system for any treatment after that experience. For anything.

What Irish women face is unconscionable, in my opinion.
 
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Twilight1

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That is just so scary. It effectively tells women they can't become pregnant if they also value their own health.

I know there have been Catholic hospitals in the US that wait until women are on the verge of immediate death to treat them for if the treatment means termination of the pregnancy; just being nearly dead wasn't enough. But even still, in the end, the women are usually treated, usually....

I personally have been on the wrong end of a state termination limit when I found out my baby was non-viable. Everything early pregnancy was 100% fine, all the testing we had indicated nothing was wrong until 25 weeks when a small birth defect was detected and 26 weeks when major ones were at a different hospital (the limit at the time was 24 weeks). My health was not in danger at the time, but no pregnancy is benign and life threatening conditions can develop at any time, and while all women should make their own decision, I consider it inhumane to force a woman to carry a pregnancy a pregnancy to term. Especially with maternal mortality as high as it is here. Our state is even MORE restrictive now (any heartbeat), essentially outlawing abortion until it is struck down.

The doctors at the hospital that treated me for the second pregnancy suspect I was lied to my first pregnancy so that termination would be illegal. They said the birth defects were much too severe to not have been detected at 16- and 20-week ultrasounds. I will no longer go to a Catholic hospital system for any treatment after that experience. For anything.

What Irish women face is unconscionable, in my opinion.
My male doc flat out refused giving me a tubal. He implied that I may change my mind or something may happen to one of my kids. I was so offended... like your kids are replaceable like a broken TV or a woman would just randomly want a tubal without thinking about it.

When he was away, I went to the female doc covering and told her I wanted a tubal. No questions asked referral was sent. No more babies on my train...

The Catholic hospital here does not do tubals or vasectomies and absolutely no abortions AFAIK.
 

oleada

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I personally have been on the wrong end of a state termination limit when I found out my baby was non-viable. Everything early pregnancy was 100% fine, all the testing we had indicated nothing was wrong until 25 weeks when a small birth defect was detected and 26 weeks when major ones were at a different hospital (the limit at the time was 24 weeks). My health was not in danger at the time, but no pregnancy is benign and life threatening conditions can develop at any time, and while all women should make their own decision, I consider it inhumane to force a woman to carry a pregnancy a pregnancy to term. Especially with maternal mortality as high as it is here. Our state is even MORE restrictive now (any heartbeat), essentially outlawing abortion until it is struck down.

The doctors at the hospital that treated me for the second pregnancy suspect I was lied to my first pregnancy so that termination would be illegal. They said the birth defects were much too severe to not have been detected at 16- and 20-week ultrasounds. I will no longer go to a Catholic hospital system for any treatment after that experience. For anything.

What Irish women face is unconscionable, in my opinion.
What you faced is unconscionable! I am so sorry that you were lied to, on top of losing your child. That is such a violation. I would not go to a Catholic hospital, either.

Unfortunately, Catholic hospitals are the only providers for many women in the United States, due to many hospitals closing (especially in rural areas) and insurance limitations. My insurance at one of my jobs only covered care in two health systems - both Catholic. Refusing to perform a tubal ligation, especially when a woman desires it and is already having a C-section, is such a breach of medical ethics. I don't understand why the Catholic Church's beliefs trump medical science.

Here's a couple of examples:

Catholic Hospital denies pregnant woman life saving tubal ligation
Judge Rules Catholic Hospital Can Deny Tubal Ligation to Redding Woman

For what it's worth, the Catholic affiliated hospitals in Colombia do tubal sterilizations. My aunt had one after her last child.
 
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rfisher

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Good news for some, the Catholic Church is slowly getting out of the health care business. As nuns age and their numbers are reduced, the Church is slowly selling off all their hospitals. (ours was owned by the church and was sold last week). Bad news for some, this may mean the loss of coverage in many areas if for profits don't deem them to be a good market (meaning poor or rural areas with little insurance payout).
 

Skittl1321

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What you faced is unconscionable! I am so sorry that you were lied to, on top of losing your child. That is such a violation. I would not go to a Catholic hospital, either.
I can't prove I was lied to. That's just what the maternal-fetal medicine specialists at our other hospital thought when they did the level II scan after my referral (but only told me when I went back to them and not my previous OB when I was pregnant again). I also don't think my OB would have (she showed me the ultrasound reports she recieved when we found the birth defect, she seemed dumb founded.) But in that system, the radiologist sees the ultrasound and writes a report, instead of the OB looking at it directly like the other hospital system does. So either the radiologist was horrible at his job, or he left out information until it was too late to act on it in my state. It's been traumatic and damaging.

I'm thankful we have a choice of another hospital. I never really thought about Mercy being a Catholic hospital before, it didn't seem to matter, or how it would affect care for some procedures. TONS of women go there, and prefer it to our other hospital because it isn't a teaching hospital so there aren't tons of students and residents milling about, it's more privacy. I'd have my baby in the middle of a crowded football stadium if it meant I got higher quality healthcare.

But I think what happened to me is on another level of denying a woman medication because she's pregnant. And deep in my heart, I really hope they just didn't see the 15+ major issues that showed up on that level II ultrasound.

Maternal healthcare has to be a balance. (I think of anti-depressants. I chose not to take them pregnant, as it was more grief/anxiety than depression, but I remember the talk with the OB "yes, there is a risk to the baby, but it is small, and there is a risk to the mother AND the baby if you don't take medication you need.") I think the Jewish position of requiring the mother come first until the baby is born is pretty valid, though I can see some women who would want to sacrifice themselves for their child if the child is viable, so I'm very "pro-choice" in that too. The choice should always be the mothers'.
 

clairecloutier

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So sad to hear of your situation @Skittl1321. I cannot imagine what you've been through. :(

These laws favoring fetal health/well-being over the mother's are appalling to me. It's like the ultimate form of misogyny. In which the woman becomes worthwhile only as the carrier of a fetus. Everything else about her is expendable, non-essential. :(
 

misskarne

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There is a really great Facebook page called “In Her Shoes” where women who have been affected by the Eighth Amendment here tell their stories.

Here is another horrific story about how women in crisis pregnancies are treated (or rather not treated) in Ireland:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...e-as-savita-halappanavar-s-1.3492038?mode=amp
I tried to formulate a coherent thought in response to that article after reading it. All I produced was a raging angry screaming.

That is just so scary. It effectively tells women they can't become pregnant if they also value their own health.
I think the message is closer to: If you become pregnant, your own life is irrelevant and becomes forfeit.

@Skittl1321 I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Religion has no place in schools. It has no place in politics. And it abso-fcuking-lutely has no place whatsoever in healthcare. No religion should be allowed to dictate what care is received. This is sickening.
 
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allezfred

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Good news for some, the Catholic Church is slowly getting out of the health care business. As nuns age and their numbers are reduced, the Church is slowly selling off all their hospitals.
Here they are selling them off to trusts with Catholic board members who will maintain the Catholic ethos.
 

rfisher

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Here they are selling them off to trusts with Catholic board members who will maintain the Catholic ethos.
That's sort of what they did with us, but based on what's happened with other hospitals, it only lasts as long as there are any remaining nuns. Of course the US doesn't have the same Catholic tradition as Ireland and the change may be slower than it is here.
 
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allezfred

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Four days to go till the vote. The last few opinion polls all point to a healthy Yes lead. Now it’s all about turnout.

In other news, the mother from Crystal Swing is campaigning for the No side. :rolleyes:
 

misskarne

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Four days to go till the vote. The last few opinion polls all point to a healthy Yes lead. Now it’s all about turnout.

In other news, the mother from Crystal Swing is campaigning for the No side. :rolleyes:
Saw a story today about the No side whining because they were counting on the foreign donations/advertisements in the last few days before the referendum. Suck it bitches!

What's the turnout generally likely to be in these sorts of things for you guys? Is there a risk that the non-voters could have too much say?
 

IceAlisa

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Good luck Ireland!

ETA: went and looked at the In Her Shoes page. Can’t stop crying. How can this be happening in the 21st century? It’s medieval.
 
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allezfred

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What's the turnout generally likely to be in these sorts of things for you guys? Is there a risk that the non-voters could have too much say?
60% would be a decent turnout. The marriage equality referendum was over 60% and that was the fifth highest in the history of the state. The higher the turnout, the better it is for Yes.
 

Twilight1

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One thing I have definitely learned is that people with conservative leanings typically have a very healthy turn out rate for elections/ referendums.

It is people for change that you have to encourage to come out and vote. I learned that with the several elections I volunteered for.

Hope Ireland votes for this change. Certainly it will help with the hard cases.
 
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allezfred

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Second to last debate is on tonight. The No campaign have pulled one of their scheduled speakers at the last moment. Of course, now the TV station has to go scrambling for a suitable replacement. It's going to be a head wrecking night.

On my way home I politely declined a No leaflet and one of the campaigners screamed after me "There's no good reason to Vote Yes!" :rolleyes:
 

Skittl1321

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Second to last debate is on tonight. The No campaign have pulled one of their scheduled speakers at the last moment. Of course, now the TV station has to go scrambling for a suitable replacement. It's going to be a head wrecking night.

On my way home I politely declined a No leaflet and one of the campaigners screamed after me "There's no good reason to Vote Yes!" :rolleyes:
Take all the leaflets! Fewer to give to other people.
 

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