Alexey Navalny

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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60 Minutes aired a story this past Sunday and this includes a full transcript plus links to a few clips from the broadcast as well as his interview with Lesley Stahl in December 2017:


 

caseyedwards

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I guess I need to prepare for the regime change war to make him president like chalabi and Iraq!

Might want to take it easy on the Aung San Suu Kyiing of this guy considering she turned out to be a genocidal madwoman!

If the US and NATO and EU make him president of Russia you don’t know he will give Crimea back to Ukraine. Give chechnya independence. Give Ossetia and Abkhazia back to Georgia, give up its Nukes, support overthrowing assad, legalize gay marriage. You don’t know any of this! He’s now total western dream and will make Russia Jeffersonian democracy but that’s not clear at all.
 
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mjb52

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This is actually something I have been wondering about after an off-hand remark someone (don't remember which poster) made in the Russia with Love thread. All this time I guess I have been assuming Navalny was a good guy, but someone there mentioned that he was a bit of a nationalist. I have been wondering whether anyone has read a deep-dive on him in a credible, objective source? It's easy to assume he is a positive force because he is the most prominent anti-Putin voice, but he could be the most prominent anti-Putin voice and still not necessarily be a great guy himself. It just surprised me after that post, despite taking it with many grains of salt given how crazy that thread gets, to realize how little I actually know about him and I've had it in the back of my head since then that I'd like to know more.
 

Vagabond

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This is actually something I have been wondering about after an off-hand remark someone (don't remember which poster) made in the Russia with Love thread. All this time I guess I have been assuming Navalny was a good guy, but someone there mentioned that he was a bit of a nationalist. I have been wondering whether anyone has read a deep-dive on him in a credible, objective source?
I couldn't find any references to Navalny in a From Russia with Love thread, even when I clicked on "Show Ignored Content." :shuffle:

Navalny was a nationalist up till the Crimean crisis of 2014.


According to an Internet translation of his blog post linked in that webpage, he still thinks of himself as a "Slavic chauvinist," but what else he stands for, besides democratic elections, isn't altogether clear.
 

mjb52

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I couldn't find any references to Navalny in a From Russia with Love thread, even when I clicked on "Show Ignored Content." :shuffle:

Navalny was a nationalist up till the Crimean crisis of 2014.


According to an Internet translation of his blog post linked in that webpage, he still thinks of himself as a "Slavic chauvinist," but what else he stands for, besides democratic elections, isn't altogether clear.

Ah, it's going to drive me crazy now. I'm pretty sure it was in FRwL but not 100%. I'll look around to see if I can find it. I was reading PI for awhile but that was back during the primaries so it couldn't have been there. I'll check out that link, thanks! Not sure "Slavic chauvinist" sounds much better than nationalist tbh but I guess you never know with internet translation.
 

caseyedwards

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All I know is when navalny is a guest of Joe Biden at his first address to Congress It’s going to be a hugely celebrated event and everyone will applaud and stand but come on!
 

DELTA

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In the west they will try to paint him as a major opposition leader. He's not. Communist Party is is still very popular. Their candidate took most votes away from Putin last election.
 

Cachoo

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In the west they will try to paint him as a major opposition leader. He's not. Communist Party is is still very popular. Their candidate took most votes away from Putin last election.
I think he is painted here as more of a provocateur who knows how to tweak Putin on the internet. And Putin needs to be tweaked. Of course that practice can be deadly.
 

DORISPULASKI

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That is true.

But sometimes, you just want to get something over with. If you are going to kill me, just do it, you may think.
 

ballettmaus

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Russia is never going to change regardless. Putin will be President until he dies and then they’ll be another one.
How many slaves said that about slavery? How many said that about the women's right to vote? How many who lived in European monarchies said that about the monarchies? How many who lived in the former Soviet Union said that about the Soviet Union? I could go on and on but my point is, unless we believe in change and fight for change, nothing is going to change.

ETA: There's a quote that's attributed to Bertolt Brecht. Don't know if it's his but it says: Those who fight can lose. Those who don't fight have already lost.
 

Judy

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How many slaves said that about slavery? How many said that about the women's right to vote? How many who lived in European monarchies said that about the monarchies? How many who lived in the former Soviet Union said that about the Soviet Union? I could go on and on but my point is, unless we believe in change and fight for change, nothing is going to change.

ETA: There's a quote that's attributed to Bertolt Brecht. Don't know if it's his but it says: Those who fight can lose. Those who don't fight have already lost.
I totally get that. it is a reminder that living in countries that believe and embrace democracy is so important. I would love to see that in Russia and China amongst others. But nobody so far has been able to change that.
 

Dobre

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I totally get that. it is a reminder that living in countries that believe and embrace democracy is so important. I would love to see that in Russia and China amongst others. But nobody so far has been able to change that.
Which is why he went back, right? Because he can't change the system from outside. Because even if he does not live through this experience, maybe he can be a catalyst for that change.

I hope Russia will get there. One of my strongest memories of the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the early 90s was an open discussion between teenagers in two high school classes, one from Russia and one in the U.S. The Russian teenagers were talking about the challenges the country was facing in building a democracy and how they expected to have to deal with those obstacles for a while in order to build it.

I think about those kids a lot. It makes me sad that they still do not have the democracy they were excited about building.

I hope they will get it.
 

caseyedwards

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The weird thing is if United States hadn’t intervened so aggressively to re-elect yeltsin in 1996 and the communists won Russia may be more democratic than it is today! But there is so much focus on Russia and so few on earth can name a Chinese democratic activist because China kills or jails them all
 

mjb52

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This is what I've been wondering about since that reference in the FRWL thread. I can't believe I'm going to agree with caseyedwards but I do wonder if this is an Aung San Suu Kyi type situation, where the West romanticizes a figure that ultimately turns out to be problematic. How many people praising Navalny know anything about him at all? I certainly don't. I always just assumed since he was against Putin he was good.
 

Vagabond

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This is what I've been wondering about since that reference in the FRWL thread. I can't believe I'm going to agree with caseyedwards but I do wonder if this is an Aung San Suu Kyi type situation, where the West romanticizes a figure that ultimately turns out to be problematic. How many people praising Navalny know anything about him at all? I certainly don't. I always just assumed since he was against Putin he was good.
I think it's quite clear that Navalny's back story is problematic. On the other hand, it's not so problematic as Putin's. 🤷‍♂️
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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This is what I've been wondering about since that reference in the FRWL thread. I can't believe I'm going to agree with caseyedwards but I do wonder if this is an Aung San Suu Kyi type situation, where the West romanticizes a figure that ultimately turns out to be problematic. How many people praising Navalny know anything about him at all? I certainly don't. I always just assumed since he was against Putin he was good.
I wouldn't say 'good', I'd say better, but it's a low bar because Putin has been actively bankrupting the country for his personal financial benefit for years now.
 

mjb52

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I think it's one thing to say he's better than Putin despite being problematic but do you really think he is portrayed that way in the West? He is portrayed as some kind of heroic figure isn't he? That's certainly the impression I had of him before the discussion on this board. And most people aren't reading FSU to get educated about world events... although clearly they should be. :) Although maybe it's a sign I need to be reading more in-depth discussion of international affairs than whatever comes across the bow on CNN or wherever as well.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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I think it's one thing to say he's better than Putin despite being problematic but do you really think he is portrayed that way in the West? He is portrayed as some kind of heroic figure isn't he? That's certainly the impression I had of him before the discussion on this board. And most people aren't reading FSU to get educated about world events... although clearly they should be. :) Although maybe it's a sign I need to be reading more in-depth discussion of international affairs than whatever comes across the bow on CNN or wherever as well.
What Navalny is doing is heroic because it will probably cost him his life, but that doesn't mean that he's a saint. Complex issues require complex discussion, and American media has repeatedly shown they're not capable of giving this type of coverage.
 

ballettmaus

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What Navalny is doing is heroic because it will probably cost him his life, but that doesn't mean that he's a saint. Complex issues require complex discussion, and American media has repeatedly shown they're not capable of giving this type of coverage.
Heros and villains sell better than flawed, human figures.
 

Judy

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