Afghanistan

michalle

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,698
Actually, we've been destabilizing the whole area well beyond Afghanistan since the days of "All the Shah's Men" (if you've ever read that book). I'm just commenting on the current situation, not on all our past actions. And frankly, our actions have stunk to high heaven for decades.

Thanks for mentioning this book, I've been wanting to read something about this for awhile, it looks great.

@allezfred Your anger and frustration are understandable but I feel like you're taking it out on the wrong person.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,679
Thanks for mentioning this book, I've been wanting to read something about this for awhile, it looks great.

@allezfred Your anger and frustration are understandable but I feel like you're taking it out on the wrong person.
I totally understand @allezfred's anger and frustration. The fact that I posted dispassionately on the reality of our f**kups doesn't mean I lack compassion toward the Afghani people or won't help where I can. I'm simply acknowledging decades of the "greatest country in the world" proving they are anything but when it comes to these "interventions" (much less in other areas, including how some of our citizens are treated).
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico, via Russia - to the World!
Messages
15,252
My company’s USAID contractors are at the airport, waiting for the flights to resume! Most call Wash, DC home but have been posted in Kabul for long time...a girls educ program, imagine. So much good work evaporated, it seems. 😢 At least the knowledge remains. Nobody can reprogram a brain...a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,351
There's a thread on Twitter from the Central Bank Governor of Afghanistan. He has just escaped the country. He did not expect this collapse to happen so quickly:



A viewpoint on the Afghanistan situation from political columnist Michael A. Cohen:

 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,418
Is there a meaning (like a word play) behind the spelling of Afghanistan in the thread title? If not, maybe it could be corrected out of respect for Afghanistan?
Honestly I have been dealing with an extremely serious health condition for 2 weeks with my autistic sister in hospital so the spelling mistake wasn’t intentional. Simply said I was exhausted yesterday.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,507
Israel shouldn't have been in southern Lebanon, either, so getting out was the right call. But it could have been handled much better. I know some claim it emboldened Hezbollah and Hamas; I can't say, and it's not like the Taliban had much difficulty in Afghanistan to begin with.
I would say that TPTB should have anticipated this and got the civilians, such as the Afghan translators out first. Then withdraw the troops. And possibly even get them out before announcing it.

I never thought Biden would muck this part up as much as he has. It's infuriating.
 

Tesla

Whippet Good
Messages
2,772
I would say that TPTB should have anticipated this and got the civilians, such as the Afghan translators out first. Then withdraw the troops. And possibly even get them out before announcing it.

I never thought Biden would muck this part up as much as he has. It's infuriating.
Unfortunately, I think they thought the Afghan army would fight back.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,507
Unfortunately, I think they thought the Afghan army would fight back.
Then they weren't paying attention.

You can't go into a country and prop up one side artificially and expect anything good to come of it, IMO. There is giving a country aide when requested and there is trying to force them to be a certain way. These invasions are pretty much always the latter.
 

Tesla

Whippet Good
Messages
2,772
Then they weren't paying attention.

You can't go into a country and prop up one side artificially and expect anything good to come of it, IMO. There is giving a country aide when requested and there is trying to force them to be a certain way. These invasions are pretty much always the latter.
Doomed to always repeat history. *********, Vietnam/Afghanistan. I'm terrified of what the next catastrophe will be.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
69,293
What is sad is the very fast way the men of Afghanistan have embraced the return of the Taliban. 20 years did not change any cultural mindset toward women. None. A thousand years hasn't changed it. They have retaken the country in a matter of days because the army and police just said OK. The men in the country by and large support the Taliban. They paid homage to the US as long as they were willing to pour money into the country, but as soon as they were gone, they shifted right back to where they were circa 2001. :( Cultural wars are not won with bombs.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
24,856
This situation is a sh*tshow that has been years in the making.

Speaking about my own country, they just tagged along with the US in Afghanistan and Iraq for years and helped contribute to the issues that are there. But when it comes to giving persecuted people from those areas refugee status, our country is more than happy to wipe their hands of their responsibility they have help caused. Thus refugees get demonised by our politicians. "Stop the boats" was Tony Abbott's catch cry when he was prime minister. I certainly hope that our country will change their tune to refugees now under these circumstances but I doubt it.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,418
Lynsey Addario's feature in "The Atlantic" about the women of Afghanistan is a good read. And depressing. They are always the people I think of most in any situation in the country. I'm sorry I don't have a link.
I have heard it personally.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,883

This blows my mind:
“The one thing they all had in common was they were all trying to train a Western army instead of figuring out the strengths of the Afghans as a fighting people and then building on that.”

To pick up what allezfred said, this is the same kind of thinking all colonial powers displayed whenever they colonized a country; their way of life was the only right way to live.
How can anyone think that they'll be successful by trying to force someone to become something they're not?
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,507
Lynsey Addario's feature in "The Atlantic" about the women of Afghanistan is a good read. And depressing. They are always the people I think of most in any situation in the country. I'm sorry I don't have a link.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,829
Then they weren't paying attention.

You can't go into a country and prop up one side artificially and expect anything good to come of it, IMO. There is giving a country aide when requested and there is trying to force them to be a certain way. These invasions are pretty much always the latter.
I think you can have a success. You just have to get your head out of your a$$ first.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
44,507
Trump scrubs his website of bragging about his Afghanistan withdrawal plan.


and the GOP follows suit:


Because of course they did.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
Messages
1,566
He has to hurry because he has to get back to his Vacay

Yes, funnelling millions to his many resorts and fooling his silly followers who think they're "owning the libs" by supporting a grifter and a con man who golfs every weekend at government expense. After freeing 5000 Taliban. Which his sheeple followers will excuse somehow (again deluding themselves that they are owning the libs...)

Oh wait ....
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,883
I don't think that the U.S. can in any meaningful way be said to have colonized Afghanistan. Occupied it? Yes. Colonized it? no. There is a difference, and it's a meaningful one.
I didn't say that the US colonized Afghanistan. I said that they displayed colonial power thinking. Colonial powers always considered the Western way the only way to live civilized and the military seems to have thought the only way to train a military is the Western way.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
24,856
I didn't say that the US colonized Afghanistan. I said that they displayed colonial power thinking. Colonial powers always considered the Western way the only way to live civilized and the military seems to have thought the only way to train a military is the Western way.
I don't think they have colonial thinking. The US have for years considered themselves as the sheriff of the world. Their allies (such as Australia) think they have to go along with them, regardless of the consequences.

No-one was ever going to win this war because it is about ideology, not ownership of land. The reason it last so long was as much as the US thought they could pump troops into the country, ideology always has new recruits who will go and fight with them.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information