Afghanistan

b-man

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,342
Many of those 96,000 are the spouses, children, and dependent family members of those who did provide material help. Would you force those who did help to choose between coming without their families or staying behind?

As for the refugees, why shouldn't the U.S. help them? The Taliban have sealed Afghanistan's borders, so the only way to flee is by plane. Or would you have the U.S. abandon them too?
I thought we did help, 2,000+ lives, billions of dollars, 75,000 vehicles, 200 aircraft. There are 40 million in Afghan., and the Talliban have less than 100,000 by all estimates. Once their paychecks slowed, the Afghan army faded. I agree with sleepy Joe on one thing, other than the Afghan special forces, the country didn't fight hard to protect their villages, their wives, their children. They lost 60,000, but that was over 20 years. We were killing 100,000 VC/NVA in a year, not over 20 years.

I also look at the European experience with Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan immigration post 2015 and that foolish Angela decision. An awful lot 0f the increase in crime in Europe is committed by Afghans. Not all are grateful with relocation to a high income western country. The western culture is incompatible to the life of an Islamic goat herder. We already have a million, often ********* infected invaders this year, which super spreader sleepy Joe is shipping to a town near you. That is more than enough for the b-man.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
43,210
And, really, try to capture them all? You are arguing for another long-term American occupation if you really believe that is in any way possible.
It's very clear that many who say they are criticizing the way we have withdrawn really are unhappy we are withdrawing and want us to stay indefinitely.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
24,790
Who thought it was brilliant to trust the Taliban? and Biden just skates around the lives and commitments of the Taliban. Why would anyone trust the Taliban? Really? They knew this was going to happen.

I really worry about Biden. I don't know that his cognitive abilities are capable of dealing with this.
Really? You are asking that question? :wall:

And commenting on Biden's cognitive abilities when the person who is the answer to your questions about trusting the Taliban had and still has severe cognitive issues.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,514
The stories of people making it out of Afghanistan are encouraging; that it takes such extraordinary efforts is a problem.
The guy applied for a visa in 2012! As someone wrote in the comments, if the US couldn't trust the interpreters after they'd done so much, why were they being employed?
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
Messages
34,976
Afghans with SIV visas are no longer being allowed in and Canada left yesterday while the UK are leaving today. From what I understand from the news no one is being allowed into the airport anymore. According to CNN a group of women with SIV visas are now stuck despite US promises that they will be allowed to leave.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,142
Update:

100,100 people have now been evacuated since August 14th.

A tragic day:(. Also a huge milestone. Over 100,000 people evacuated in less than 2 weeks.

At least 7,500 people were evacuated in the past day. (The post I read said the past 12 hours & it was posted 8 hours ago).

105,700 people have been evacuated since the end of July.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
Messages
14,701
....
I really worry about Biden. I don't know that his cognitive abilities are capable of dealing with this.

I understand why many are feeling this way but I stop short of agreeing because I consider such talk as a form of Elder Abuse. How could Biden have survived a rough election cycle, including multiple debates, if he were suffering from Alzheimer’s?

That said...

I heard the most hilarious comment on one of the TV news shows last night, when a former Green Beret said, “Instead of Dependable, we got Depends in the White House.” 😂
 
Last edited:

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,514
I heard the most hilarious comment on one of the TV news shows last night, when a former Green Beret said, “Instead of Dependable, we got Depends in the White House.” 😂
That's not remotely hilarious, and it illustrates how the failure mode of clever is "asshole".

I think people confuse Biden's slow speech with slow thinking. Those are two different things.

And to end this post on a more positive note:
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
Messages
34,976
The death toll is now 90 and will probably go up but that hasn’t stopped desperate people from lining up outside the airport.

Just one more story of a vet trying to help the translators who helped him.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,756
AxelAnnie said:
I don't get "COMING OUT". Coming Out seems to be a badge of honor. That is silly. You are still who you are. Do good deeds. Help others.

It is a badge of honor in a way, IMHO. It takes courage to come out in societies that remain very homo/transphobic.
As to birth control and pregnancy. It is actually quite simple...if you don't want a pregnancy don't have sex. That is quite simple. Really. You know sex can cause pregnancy. So if you don't want to be responsible for the consequence then don't do it. It is the only way to avoid pregnancy that I know of.

If by nuance you mean condoning behaviors that have real consequences because the guy said...Oh it will be fine....I'll pull out. If you have sex outside of marriage you are risking the life of a child. If you can't deal with the consequences....don't jump in the water.

There you go on that issue, again.



I know I am a pain in the ass. People may not like my POV but at least they know where I stand.
I have said this before.....both of my daughters got pregnant while in college and had abortions. Yep. And I drove them there and stayed in the room. Is that nuance? I hope so. BTW
..I am actually very nice.:40beers:

Did you by any chance gives your children lectures on abortion and share your feelings on it? Just curious out.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
Messages
14,701
The death toll is now 90 and will probably go up but that hasn’t stopped desperate people from lining up outside the airport.

Just one more story of a vet trying to help the translators who helped him.
It’s over 100 now (all nationalities). 😢
Sincere photo of grieving Prez, with head bowed.

All flags at half-mast this morning. 🇺🇸
 
Last edited:

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,101
I understand that this is very personal to you. No reason to get nasty. According to the CDC the first reported case of HIV was in 1981. Yet, U.S. leaders had remained largely silent and unresponsive to the health emergency. And it wasn't until September 1985, four years after the crisis began, that President Ronald Reagan first publicly mentioned AIDS.

As to my knowledge of the AIDS crisis, I don't even know how to evaluate that. I certainly knew about it. And like everyone else was scared of it. There was so much speculation, uncertainty about how it was transmitted.

As to 4 years to respond......it took decades to get Polio under control. Are you old enough to remember the iron lung?

As to men dying who needed help.............define help. What would you have wanted/needed?

I listened to a couple of Reagan's speeches about HIV/AIDS and I remembered why I loved him.

Also, remember back then sexual orientation was not widely understood or embraced. However, the way to understanding and acceptance was NOT with naked people cavorting all over SF in a Gay Pride Parade.

I don't get "COMING OUT". Just be who you are. I don't care about sexual orientation but I do care about character, commitment, values. Coming Out seems to be a badge of honor. That is silly. You are still who you are. Do good deeds. Help others.

Now, you can blast me....feel free. I sincerely asked the questions I asked. Educate me.
Here you go ...

The first report on AIDS was the news article in July 1981 about a rare cancer afflicting gay men. I think you mentioned it. AIDS started to gain nationwide attention in 1983. Around that time was when the Reagan Administration at the latest should have understood that there was a national *********, and did something meaningful toward prevention; unfortunately for an Administration whose base was a re-energized Religious Right (Jerry Falwell), this meant things they wouldn't touch, such as funds for sex education, aggressively backing up the science and informing the U.S. public about its transmissibility (intercourse, sharing needles) and working hard to squash the prejudices that impeded said education, perhaps pushing for anti-discrimination laws to protect the LGBT community, which were very much a debate at the time, so that at-risk groups like Gay men could get tested (when tests were available in 1984 finally) w/o fear of employer and landlord retribution.

C. Everett Koop was Reagan's Surgeon General who broke w/ the 80s R orthodoxy and championed sex education and condoms. The Right shuddered and wanted him to clam up stat.

Unfortunately, Reagan's strategists didn't want to alienate the base who thought this was a disease afflicting perverts and the morally bankrupt. They are on the record saying disparaging things about gay men. They joked about concentration camp-like quarantines. Reagan first addressed AIDS exclusively in 1987. He was booed by some. He noted in his speech that his administration and Rs generally were, as a philosophy, not that into Gov. spending, and that his Administration wanted to HIV test marriage applicants. WTF.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,761
I thought we did help, 2,000+ lives, billions of dollars, 75,000 vehicles, 200 aircraft. There are 40 million in Afghan., and the Talliban have less than 100,000 by all estimates. Once their paychecks slowed, the Afghan army faded. I agree with sleepy Joe on one thing, other than the Afghan special forces, the country didn't fight hard to protect their villages, their wives, their children. They lost 60,000, but that was over 20 years. We were killing 100,000 VC/NVA in a year, not over 20 years.

I also look at the European experience with Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan immigration post 2015 and that foolish Angela decision. An awful lot 0f the increase in crime in Europe is committed by Afghans. Not all are grateful with relocation to a high income western country. The western culture is incompatible to the life of an Islamic goat herder. We already have a million, often ********* infected invaders this year, which super spreader sleepy Joe is shipping to a town near you. That is more than enough for the b-man.
Where do you get your facts? Do you make them up? Do you read history? Do you research things before you post? Do you have any moral values? :confused:

From 2000:
The U.S. took in hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees after the war there. Twenty-five years after the war ended, the U.S. was still receiving 26,000 refugees a year. Most of that intake was under the administrations of Republican Presidents, namely Ford, Reagan, and George H.W. Bush.

The refugees entering Europe in 2015 and just afterwards came largely from Syria and Iraq. Can you show me one statistical report showing that Afghanistani refugees came en masse into Europe during that time? 🦗 🦗 🦗

The people being evacuated by the U.S. and its Allies are not goat herders. They are the inteliigentsia. Be that as it may, we have taken in groups like the Somali Bantu (mostly Muslim) and the Hmong (not Muslim), and, with support, they can integrate into U.S. society.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,638
I understand why many are feeling this way but I stop short of agreeing because I consider such talk as a form of Elder Abuse. How could Biden have survived a rough election cycle, including multiple debates, if he were suffering from Alzheimer’s?

That said...

I heard the most hilarious comment on one of the TV news shows last night, when a former Green Beret said, “Instead of Dependable, we got Depends in the White House.” 😂
That is an interesting take on things. I looked up Elder Abuse. This from

From National Center Elder Abuse
PhysicalIntentional use of physical force that results in illness, injury, pain or functional impairment
Sexual Non-consensual sexual contact of any kind
NeglectCaregivers or other responsible parties failing to provide food, shelter, health care, or protection
FinancialMisappropriation of an older person's money or property
EmotionalInflicting mental pain, anguish, or distress on a person
Self-neglectA person who fails to perform self-care tasks such that it threatens his/her own health or safety

I don't see that Biden's ever-increasing demeanor, confusion, and misstatements can be attributed to Elder Abuse.

I assume Biden has enough people surrounding him to help him carry out his duties. I question how long they can keep him going. Stress (like being President and running for President) speeds up the decline.

What we see right now is painful to watch, whether one is a Republican or Democrat.


: There are several different possibilities: Alzheimer's, Multiple System Atrophy, Parkins to name but a few.

In the last few years, I have had my sainted Aunt and Uncle, and my very non-sainted ex-husband.
None of these three would be considered Elder Abuse.
 
Last edited:

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,638
Here you go ...

The first report on AIDS was the news article in July 1981 about a rare cancer afflicting gay men. I think you mentioned it. AIDS started to gain nationwide attention in 1983. Around that time was when the Reagan Administration at the latest should have understood that there was a national *********, and did something meaningful toward prevention; unfortunately for an Administration whose base was a re-energized Religious Right (Jerry Falwell), this meant things they wouldn't touch, such as funds for sex education, aggressively backing up the science and informing the U.S. public about its transmissibility (intercourse, sharing needles) and working hard to squash the prejudices that impeded said education, perhaps pushing for anti-discrimination laws to protect the LGBT community, which were very much a debate at the time, so that at-risk groups like Gay men could get tested (when tests were available in 1984 finally) w/o fear of employer and landlord retribution.

C. Everett Koop was Reagan's Surgeon General who broke w/ the 80s R orthodoxy and championed sex education and condoms. The Right shuddered and wanted him to clam up stat.

Unfortunately, Reagan's strategists didn't want to alienate the base who thought this was a disease afflicting perverts and the morally bankrupt. They are on the record saying disparaging things about gay men. They joked about concentration camp-like quarantines. Reagan first addressed AIDS exclusively in 1987. He was booed by some. He noted in his speech that his administration and Rs generally were, as a philosophy, not that into Gov. spending, and that his Administration wanted to HIV test marriage applicants. WTF.
Much of what you say is true. Thank you for breaking down the information for me.
Did you by any chance gives your children lectures on abortion and share your feelings on it? Just curious out.
Are you kidding? Of course, I did. I raised 5 kids (3 I inherited and one of whom had 3 abortions. )
If you have teens, you know that much of what you say as a parent blows past the teens as a gentle breeze. And, fyi, this was over 20 years ago, with my eldest.

I think I mentioned that I took them to the appointment for their abortions. My kids attended a Jewish Day School (did you know the Jewish view on abortion? Jews believe that life begins with the first breath, so there is no conflict there.

I remember a late-night call to my (our) OB/GYN asking him how in the world how do I handle this.

One word reply: Vodka :)
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
43,210
Bullshit. You are an awful person.
Definitely bullshit. My town of about 250k people has one of the largest Afghan populations in the US. It is also one of the safest towns in the US. (So safe that it routinely makes lists of safest places to live in the US.) The Afghan immigrants are not inherently criminal and immigrants, in general, commit fewer crimes than non-immigrants.

I don't see that Biden's ever-increasing demeanor, confusion, and misstatements can be attributed to Elder Abuse.
Are you being deliberately dense? (Probably.)

First of all, Biden's demeanor is the same as it's always been since even he was VP. Same with his rate of misstatements.

Secondly, the elder abuse being committed is by the RW press who constantly jumps on anything he says and does and claims it's because he has dementia. (Not that I agree this is elder abuse but it was clear that this is what was being stated.)
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,638
It's very clear that many who say they are criticizing the way we have withdrawn really are unhappy we are withdrawing and want us to stay indefinitely.
Pretty sure that is inaccurate. The overwhelming emergency of Americans would like us out.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,638
Definitely bullshit. My town of about 250k people has one of the largest Afghan populations in the US. It is also one of the safest towns in the US. (So safe that it routinely makes lists of safest places to live in the US.) The Afghan immigrants are not inherently criminal and immigrants, in general, commit fewer crimes than non-immigrants.


Are you being deliberately dense? (Probably.)

First of all, Biden's demeanor is the same as it's always been since even he was VP. Same with his rate of misstatements.

Secondly, the elder abuse being committed is by the RW press who constantly jumps on anything he says and does and claims it's because he has dementia. (Not that I agree this is elder abuse but it was clear that this is what was being stated.)
Hide your head the sand much?
 

jenny12

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,335
Pretty sure that is inaccurate. The overwhelming emergency of Americans would like us out.

Many of those criticizing the withdrawal are offering no plausible solutions and are repeating lies about what Biden could do within the context of the Trump deal. As MacMadame pointed out, many critics are either in support of never-ending war, or they are just looking for a way to bash Biden. Biden, to his credit, took a stand to get closer to finally ending forever wars. I was impressed by this because in the past I saw him as too hawkish. Sure, there are critiques to be made of Biden. However, the critiques that are actually justified also apply to neocons so those tend to be very inconvenient to a certain crowd.
 
Last edited:

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,638
Biden does not have any type of dementia. Trump said it so it must be true.

What possibly could you see in Trump to be a supporter? It baffles me.
B does not follow A. No connection. Have you watched any of Biden's press conferences from any channel and then listened to the comments?

If you recall, that election was between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Given Bill and Hillarys record (emails anyone) I wouldn't trust either of their opinions if they were reading the Bible.

So, yes, I did vote for Trump. I thought it might be good for the country to have a businessman rather than a politician who is beholden to the people who give her money. I still think that.

Trump actually accomplished several things: Including operation warp speed which got the vaccine for ********* out in record speed (normal time for vaccines to get from thought to market - 5-8 year

As to Trump the man---------well what can be said: Except he should have been self-blocked from twitter. We will never know the truth about the election......but he should have (IMO dropped the fight way before he did.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,638
Biden does not have any type of dementia. Trump said it so it must be true.

What possibly could you see in Trump to be a supporter? It baffles me.
Where did Trump say that? And my answer is up-thread
 

Buzz

Socialist Canada
Messages
34,976
Founder of Nowzad and his animals are on their way out but not sure about his staff. But Kabul Small Animal Rescue is safe inside the airport but are stuck. Their chartered plane will not get there in time so they are hoping to get their animals out in the cargo hold of outgoing planes where people don’t go.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information