Afghanistan

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,794
I don’t believe A mistake was made in the big picture maybe some details of withdrawing and comments on strength of Afghanistan military. But big picture was that taliban was taking over Afghanistan for like 10 years and only a total relaunch of the war of the Level pre Iraq could beat them but who wants another Afghanistan was? Meanwhile stuff like The looming tower and other things came out. 9/11 was more the failure of nsa cia fbi ins more than taliban
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
43,019
I think the only mistake Biden made was in how he did the withdraw. Not in doing it. We had no business being there and were not accomplishing anything other than enriching some corrupt people who had no real interest in running the country and building up a military that could stand up to the Taliban. This "accomplishment" was at the expense of many human lives over way too long a period of time.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
13,562
I think this is a nightmare that could have been averted. It is a shonda!. How could we have fallen so low?
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,807
Is there a meaning (like a word play) behind the spelling of Afghanistan in the thread title? If not, maybe it could be corrected out of respect for Afghanistan?
 

jenny12

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,255
I think the only mistake Biden made was in how he did the withdraw. Not in doing it. We had no business being there and were not accomplishing anything other than enriching some corrupt people who had no real interest in running the country and building up a military that could stand up to the Taliban. This "accomplishment" was at the expense of many human lives over way too long a period of time.

Agreed. And sadly this could have happened whether we left now, ten years ago, or ten years from today. This is not meant to bash the Afghani people who continue to suffer both under US Occupation and the Taliban but to reflect on how war and occupation the cannot change the hearts and minds of people. War and occupation, especially how it is employed through the Military Industrial Complex today, can be used as an easy recruitment tool by extremists and sadly this cycle will likely continue until there are real, foundational changes to our foreign policy.
 

FGRSK8

Toad whisperer.....
Messages
20,050
I was 25 when Saigon fell and the parallels between what happen then and what happened now are uncanny.

In the weeks before Saigon fell, the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese began to overrun much of the country, starting with the highlands and heading south. In this case, the Taliban started to over vast territories as they headed for the capital.

In both cases, the defending armies just seem to give up and surrender.

The process in both cases took about a month….
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,478
My Israeli perspective is that this looks a lot like the IDF withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 2000, which turned chaotic when the Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army (a glorified militia) collapsed in the face of Hezbollah. This meant an accelerated schedule and SLA personnel and their families at the border, desperate to get out. Some of them are still in Israel, some went back, others never left and quite a few eventually moved to other countries.

Israel shouldn't have been in southern Lebanon, either, so getting out was the right call. But it could have been handled much better. I know some claim it emboldened Hezbollah and Hamas; I can't say, and it's not like the Taliban had much difficulty in Afghanistan to begin with. I just wish there was some way to help the people there, who deserve none of this.
 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,260
the two fell off in the sky,
disturbing.

Here is the full video


LESSON: If you go into other countries make sure you finish the job.
Don't run away like cowards and leave it a mess.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,658
My take? We never should have been there this long in the first place. If we left 2 years ago, 2 years from now, 10 years from now, the same outcome would have occurred - the non-Taliban Afghan people would never have been prepared to lead and maintain a democratic government. Yes, we left. They also were completely unprepared to take over no matter how much we trained them. The minute we began to withdraw, their government began to fall apart. I feel very sorry for the Afghani people, this is definitely awful for them, but our staying in longer would not have changed the outcome.

This is the fault of the Biden, Trump, and Obama administrations for how they handled the whole mess. But it's most of all George W Bush and his administration's fault for getting us in there in the first place for an act than didn't pan out (getting Bin Laden) and having no real plan for what we were going to do there and how to get out without leaving that mess.

The Republican party will twist itself into knots trying to pin this all on Biden; but the fault lies on both sides. And honestly, if I may be blunt? In the face of the YKW disease surges and everything going on here in the USA right now, I don't think this particular event is going to register or last in the minds of most Americans as a huge deal. I know I might sound cold here, but these thoughts are both sad, but realistic.
 

nylynnr

Well-Known Member
Messages
901
The Republican party will twist itself into knots trying to pin this all on Biden; but the fault lies on both sides. And honestly, if I may be blunt? In the face of the YKW disease surges and everything going on here in the USA right now, I don't think this particular event is going to register or last in the minds of most Americans as a huge deal. I know I might sound cold here, but these thoughts are both sad, but realistic.
Agree completely. This will not hurt Biden or the Democratic party with voters.
 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,260
My take? We never should have been there this long in the first place. If we left 2 years ago, 2 years from now, 10 years from now, the same outcome would have occurred - the non-Taliban Afghan people would never have been prepared to lead and maintain a democratic government. Yes, we left. They also were completely unprepared to take over no matter how much we trained them. The minute we began to withdraw, their government began to fall apart. I feel very sorry for the Afghani people, this is definitely awful for them, but our staying in longer would not have changed the outcome.

This is the fault of the Biden, Trump, and Obama administrations for how they handled the whole mess. But it's most of all George W Bush and his administration's fault for getting us in there in the first place for an act than didn't pan out (getting Bin Laden) and having no real plan for what we were going to do there and how to get out without leaving that mess.

The Republican party will twist itself into knots trying to pin this all on Biden; but the fault lies on both sides. And honestly, if I may be blunt? In the face of the YKW disease surges and everything going on here in the USA right now, I don't think this particular event is going to register or last in the minds of most Americans as a huge deal. I know I might sound cold here, but these thoughts are both sad, but realistic.
its called minding your own business, don't be nosy especially in far flung countries
with so much difference culturally, putting boots on the ground in todays world is always a failure.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
Messages
59,769
My take? We never should have been there this long in the first place. If we left 2 years ago, 2 years from now, 10 years from now, the same outcome would have occurred - the non-Taliban Afghan people would never have been prepared to lead and maintain a democratic government. Yes, we left. They also were completely unprepared to take over no matter how much we trained them. The minute we began to withdraw, their government began to fall apart. I feel very sorry for the Afghani people, this is definitely awful for them, but our staying in longer would not have changed the outcome.
Your take is very f*cking patronising. The US government's interventions in Afghanistan have been destabilising the country since the late 1970s and people like you have the f*cking audacity to write shit like this. Shame. SHAME. SHAME!
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,658
Your take is very f*cking patronising. The US government's interventions in Afghanistan have been destabilising the country since the late 1970s and people like you have the f*cking audacity to write shit like this. Shame. SHAME. SHAME!
Actually, we've been destabilizing the whole area well beyond Afghanistan since the days of "All the Shah's Men" (if you've ever read that book). I'm just commenting on the current situation, not on all our past actions. And frankly, our actions have stunk to high heaven for decades.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,658

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
Staff member
Messages
59,769
I am too incensed with what some people here whose government had a direct hand in creating this crisis are posting so for the sake of my own blood pressure I am only going to post links that those of us who actually give a f*ck about what happens to other people on the planet can use to help. Feel free to add your own.

UNHCR Appeal: https://donate.unhcr.org/int/en/afg...981.205961344.1629127045-571101124.1629127045
 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,260
This is a human catastrophe, expect illegal smugglers
and a huge increase of Afghan migration into Europe.

The right wing will be delighted with this.
Its Syria and Libya all over again.
 

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