2022 US Nats Sr "Ladies" SP - Women Not Ladiezz Rule My World

Dobre

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12,802
They don't really need to split the women or the dance. It'll be a choice.

Yeah, I know. Bangs make an impression on me.
:rofl: I'll look up Leonova, but I don't think so. I'm definitely not thinking of the others.

I'm pretty sure it was a brunette. I thought maybe Julia Sebestyen, but no . . .
On a superficial note, does anyone else agree with me that Karen’s SP costume would be better with pants?
Nope.
 

VGThuy

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38,219
Come on, imagine it. Karen has superb lines and I think pants would show it off so well, especially doing the spiral and some of her turned out leg positions following the spins. Oh and that leap to the beat of that dramatic music before the footwork gets going. And it’ll be such a great contrast to her beautiful delicate look for Butterfly Lovers.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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12,574

This is a very quick cell phone slomo from a computer screen, so it's not crystal clear at the beginning but that 3T... come on :lol:
 

Dobre

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12,802
Come on, imagine it. Karen has superb lines and I think pants would show it off so we’ll, especially doing the spiral and some of her turned out leg positions following the spins. Oh and that leap to the beat of that dramatic music before the footwork gets going.
I feel like she already had a costume in black pants and I didn't like the look. Overall, I like this new program fine. Gives her that feisty go-after-it mode she sometimes needs in competition. Maybe could use some more unique choreographic touches, but this is only the first time I've seen it.
 

VGThuy

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38,219
I feel like she already had a costume in black pants and I didn't like the look. Overall, I like this new program fine. Gives her that feisty go-after-it mode she sometimes needs in competition. Maybe could use some more unique choreography, but this is only the first time I've seen it
I don’t remember that costume! Who knew all Karen needed to be excited about skating again was DRAMATICK music.
 

Viktoria

Active Member
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86
On a superficial note, does anyone else agree with me that Karen’s SP costume would be better with pants?
That's a tough ask. She's already using some pretty heavy throwback music. Maybe if she had used Clubbed to Death instead. Those two go hand-in-hand in my mind as late 2000s/early 2010s South Atlantic Regionals Warhorses, although ladies-in-pants will never get better than 2011 Carolina Kostner, with 2012 Elena Radionova throwing down a gauntlet that not many have dared pick up. ;)
 

Dobre

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12,802
Who knew all Karen needed to be excited about skating again was DRAMATICK music.
I just remember that they went back to the tango in 2018 because she & Tammy thought she needed something to put her in more of a fighting mode.
 

mtnskater

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2,368
Just back from the arena. First of all it was great event with multiple standing ovations! A few heartbreaks too (Amber 😥).

Isabeau, Karen and Mariah really brought it. The whole package of beautiful finished skating from these three with speed and authority had me really appreciating the U.S. ladies.

I love Alysa but she looked like a bouncy teenybopper out there compared to the others. What has happened to her packaging or lack thereof? Last year at Nationals she looked so beautifully put together. It‘s as if her team forgot that the look is a part of the performance. Also she looked rather sloppy and unrefined in her movement. She had the same unfinished ponytail in practice yesterday. Between yesterday’s practice and today, I get the feeling she doesn’t really want to be here. I didn’t see or feel the joy either. I sure hope I’m wrong. Whereas Mariah, Karen and Isabeau show a strong fire to be Olympic team members. Gracie was marvelous too. Shades of the old talented Gracie we all love. A redemptive skate! Lindsey has got to get more speed and expression, but lots to like there. I still think Alysa will go the Olympics but she seems to be not in the game as I’d hoped she would be after such a great start early in the season.
 

Viktoria

Active Member
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86
Because you wear them yourself?

My father just sent me a text about Alysa Liu. I'm pleased to say he spelled her name correctly.

It used to be every time a guy broke up with me, I'd drink too much and then cut bangs into my hair, so I guess I associate them tragic heartbreak. Now I'm married, so when I get my heart broken -- or just annoyed -- I go fishing instead. ;)
 

Viktoria

Active Member
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Just back from the arena. First of all it was great event with multiple standing ovations! A few heartbreaks too (Amber 😥).

Isabeau, Karen and Mariah really brought it. The whole package of beautiful finished skating from these three with speed and authority had me really appreciating the U.S. ladies.
I remember seeing Isabeau as a juvie at Liberty. She just had the "it" factor and glorious lines/control and presence on the ice even back then.
 

Theatregirl1122

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They don't really need to split the women or the dance. It'll be a choice.

They don't really NEED to split either, so the question is do two dancers deserve a shot at medals or two ladies? That seems kinda obvious. :shuffle: The Ladies are all on a pretty similar level. H/D and C/B are on a pretty similar level. But H/D and C/B are on a MUCH higher level than the ladies. I'm also not sure what exactly USFSA used to decide who was the highest ranked last time around, because it seemed like they sort of went by previous worlds results, not by world ranking (they could have gone by world ranking, but that would get you some weird results), and definitely not by nationals results, but then what do you do when one or more of the skaters wasn't at the previous worlds?
 

Dobre

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Whereas Mariah, Karen and Isabeau show a strong fire to be Olympic team members.
Isabeau did a lovely job and has been quite a rock, I think, in the many new competitive experiences she's had this season. I'm quite impressed, but I don't think it's the same type of pressure & mindset for her as for the Olympic eligible athletes since she is too young to qualify for the Olympics.

Here's a nice quote from her coach in this article. I always think this when I see the juniors compete at Nationals, but it is nice to see a coach point out that different mindset.

"It may be more fun for Levito making her senior national debut than for the other medal contenders, since she is below the minimum age for senior international events until next season. That means she will not have the pressure of competing for one of three Olympic spots that others like Alysa Liu, Mariah Bell, Karen Chen, Amber Glenn and Bradie Tennell will face.

'It’s going to be probably pretty stressful for everyone there except Isabeau,' Kuznetsova said. “The podium is possible, but I don’t focus on place. I just want her to perform well.”


On the other hand, there is the opportunity to win the berths at Junior Worlds so the juniors do have pressure. It's just a different kind.
 
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Viktoria

Active Member
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86
They don't really need to split the women or the dance. It'll be a choice.


:rofl: I'll look up Leonova, but I don't think so. I'm definitely not thinking of the others.

I'm pretty sure it was a brunette. I thought maybe Julia Sebestyen, but no . . .

Nope.

Evgenia Medvedeva recently had bangs.

Tonya Harding and Plushenko, of course, but they're blondes.
 

canbelto

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If Alysa bombs in the free tomorrow she'll probably still go to the Olys because of a petition right?
 

Vash01

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Finished watching some more skates. I was mainly interested in Gracie. How nice to see her persist for so many years and keep climbing up! She landed all the jumps. That is huge. Other things can be worked on. It is heart warming to see her accomplishments. It is not about winning medals. It is something much bigger.

About other skaters from that group-
Levito is a lovely skater. She has potential.
Starr Andrews had another disappointing performance, but the biggest disappointment was Amber Glenn. It is better to fall on a triple than to land a clean double. She knows it of course, and she looked really disappointed.
I didn't watch Wang. I wanted to get to Gold quickly.

Will watch others probably tomorrow.

It was a well skated SP competition.
 

Barbara Manatee

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They don't really NEED to split either, so the question is do two dancers deserve a shot at medals or two ladies? That seems kinda obvious.
H/D and C/B have also said repeatedly that they want to split the assignment - that might give USFS a nudge too. It's a good storyline, longtime friends and rivals wanting to share the glory. Remember how the media and everyone swooned over the high jumpers who decided to share the gold medal in Tokyo? Great PR.
 

Karen-W

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They don't really NEED to split either, so the question is do two dancers deserve a shot at medals or two ladies? That seems kinda obvious. :shuffle: The Ladies are all on a pretty similar level. H/D and C/B are on a pretty similar level. But H/D and C/B are on a MUCH higher level than the ladies. I'm also not sure what exactly USFSA used to decide who was the highest ranked last time around, because it seemed like they sort of went by previous worlds results, not by world ranking (they could have gone by world ranking, but that would get you some weird results), and definitely not by nationals results, but then what do you do when one or more of the skaters wasn't at the previous worlds?
The USFS Selection Criteria addresses this. Basically, they rank each discipline from strongest to weakest. Then, they give first rights of refusal to the top ranked skater in the strongest discipline to choose whether to skate one or both segments. They also have reserved the right to disregard the top ranked skater/team's wishes if they think that it's strategically better to use them in a different segment or split the discipline.

In 2018 - the rankings were:

1) Dance
2) Men
3) Women
4) Pairs

So, the Shibs, by virtue of their international scores during the fall, were considered the highest ranked dance team (despite losing the National title to HubDon), and they chose to skate in both segments. At that point, Men and Women were split because we only had one Pairs team.

This year, the rankings should be:

1) Men
2) Dance
3) Women
4) Pairs (though honestly, given what we've seen, scores-wise, from our pairs and women, I might flip the two)

It seems pretty likely that the Men will be split since I doubt either Nathan or Vincent really will want to skate both programs when they're both in contention for a Men's medal. Dance will probably also be split - though we've only heard from Chock/Bates explicitly on that topic, so maybe HubDon would burn C/B, but I'd be surprised since both teams have to know that this is a guaranteed medal - possibly gold - and the Dance event is less of a certainty. Also, there's a greater likelihood of one or both of C/B and H/D besting SinKats in one or more segments than there is of a US woman finishing higher than 3rd in the SP or FS, so it makes far more sense to split dance.
 

Braulio

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Mariah Bell

Karen Chen

Isabeau Levito

Alysa Liu

Gracie Gold

Audrey Shin

Lindsay Thorngren

Amber Glenn :(
 
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genevieve

drinky typo pbp, closet hugger (she/her)
Staff member
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40,045
I love Alysa but she looked like a bouncy teenybopper out there compared to the others. What has happened to her packaging or lack thereof? Last year at Nationals she looked so beautifully put together.
Yeah, the 3 times I've seen her this season, her skating has looked far more juniorish than when she was 13. Part of it is this SP - it's dramatic music, and she performs as if it's a bouncy upbeat Disney song. I know she's capable of far more mature presentation than this.

I am sure the hype machine, and whatever is going on behind the scenes (coaching change etc) is a big big drag. I don't see a scenario where she isn't named to the Oly team, so I hope it's a good experience for her, and whatever comes next is what she wants to do.
 

Dobre

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12,802
Also, there's a greater likelihood of one or both of C/B and H/D besting SinKats in one or more segments than there is of a US woman finishing higher than 3rd in the SP or FS, so it makes far more sense to split dance.
I dunno about this, but I do think Dance should clearly be ranked above the Women.
 

yeslek

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Messages
511
The USFS Selection Criteria addresses this. Basically, they rank each discipline from strongest to weakest. Then, they give first rights of refusal to the top ranked skater in the strongest discipline to choose whether to skate one or both segments. They also have reserved the right to disregard the top ranked skater/team's wishes if they think that it's strategically better to use them in a different segment or split the discipline.

In 2018 - the rankings were:

1) Dance
2) Men
3) Women
4) Pairs

So, the Shibs, by virtue of their international scores during the fall, were considered the highest ranked dance team (despite losing the National title to HubDon), and they chose to skate in both segments. At that point, Men and Women were split because we only had one Pairs team.

This year, the rankings should be:

1) Men
2) Dance
3) Women
4) Pairs (though honestly, given what we've seen, scores-wise, from our pairs and women, I might flip the two)

It seems pretty likely that the Men will be split since I doubt either Nathan or Vincent really will want to skate both programs when they're both in contention for a Men's medal. Dance will probably also be split - though we've only heard from Chock/Bates explicitly on that topic, so maybe HubDon would burn C/B, but I'd be surprised since both teams have to know that this is a guaranteed medal - possibly gold - and the Dance event is less of a certainty. Also, there's a greater likelihood of one or both of C/B and H/D besting SinKats in one or more segments than there is of a US woman finishing higher than 3rd in the SP or FS, so it makes far more sense to split dance.
Well last time they also only had one pair so that was a given and they didn’t want to wear Nathan out so he was always only going to do one and they even talked about it at nationals that year.
 

slicekw

Will Tech Support for good food.
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Lindsay Thorngren’s music is awesome. “The Writing’s on the Wall” And Queen’s Gambit soundtrack?? This is a young lady who wants it and isn’t afraid to make it known. I like the ballsy notes. And, for the record, I love Alysa’s bangs and the way both these young women are so bouncy. And I wasn’t tearing up at the end of Gracie’s program, you were!
 

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