2022 Olympic Games Pairs FS - Let The 2026 Krasnopolski Partner Search Begin!

maatTheViking

Roxaaannnneeee!!!
Messages
5,631
Caught up on this; what an excellent end.

All the final two groups were great, and so were Georgia.

I’m so happy with the podium and cried happy tears with Evgenia and Wenjing.

I love love Cain-Gribble and LeDuc so much. I feel this season they’ve really looked much more sure of themselves and tbh I felt they had the best matching lines, I love how they use that.

Outside of the pairs, one of my main takeaway is that Jean-Luc and Xinyu should do an EX together.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,142
I’m so happy with the winners of this event but I don’t understand why Alexa and Brandon don’t have +5 on all of their throws. I don’t think any man throws the woman as far as he does. She travels like four train stations. And don’t they have harder throws than S/H?

I know others have commented during this Grand Prix season that Alexa and Brandon should have higher scores on their throws and I don’t understand why they don’t have the highest of them all.
If you're interested here is a link to the GOE guide to get +5 you need five or more of the below:

1) very good height and very good distance
2) good speed, flow and control on release and landing
3) effortless throughout
4) difficult, unexpected or creative entry
5) very good air position
6) element matches the music

Good height and length is only one of the bullet points. Bullet 6 is very subjective so would be an argument either way, but Alexa and Brandon have no difficult or unexpected entry into the Throw3Lp - its just crossovers into it. Most judges gave them 3s and 4s for the Throw 3Lp at the Olympics which looks about right for me. The throw 3Lz does have a transition before it but at the Olys she was off in the air but landed it on one foot and it got 2s and 3s.
 

~tapdancer~

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,730
Thanks tons!! I don’t know why I didn’t think to check the NBC website. It‘s our first time buying Peacock for the Olympics and we thought it would have everything. It has a tremendous amount, it was well worth it. I even looked on YouTube, but there’s so little Olympics figure skating on YouTube!
The only replay on Peacock that has digital (no commentary) and not digital (NBC commentary) is the women's FS. The pairs have a replay but it's no commentary. At least my Peacock has it that way.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,929
If you're interested here is a link to the GOE guide to get +5 you need five or more of the below:



Good height and length is only one of the bullet points. Bullet 6 is very subjective so would be an argument either way, but Alexa and Brandon have no difficult or unexpected entry into the Throw3Lp - its just crossovers into it. Most judges gave them 3s and 4s for the Throw 3Lp at the Olympics which looks about right for me. The throw 3Lz does have a transition before it but at the Olys she was off in the air but landed it on one foot and it got 2s and 3s.

In this case I’ll need to speak to the manager
 

Mordra

Member
Messages
80
Before the FS, I'd wondered if S/H would pull out their 4Tw considering her 3S is, frankly, less then reliable. More so after she botched it during the warm up. So it's no surprise that they did. :40beers: However, after checking the protocols, that's not the only thing that saved them.

S/H 4Tw3 7.60 2.82 3 4 4 4 3 3 5 4 4 10.42
T/M 3Tw4 6.00 3.00 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 9.00

It only gains them 1.42 points. With the accompanied risk, no wonder few teams would be willing to try it.

S/H 3S<< << 1.30 -0.65 -5 -5 -5 -5 -5 -3 -5 -5 -5 0.65
T/M 3S 4.30 0.49 1 0 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 4.79

The downgraded 3S needed a whopping 4.14 points to cover. What happened was that S/H had higher GOEs on other elements, most obviously the throws where T/M had tighter landings without as much flow out. And also this,

S/H FoDs4 4.70 1.95 5 4 3 4 4 4 4 4 5 6.65
T/M FiDs4 3.80 1.52 5 4 4 3 4 3 5 3 5 5.32

That's more than the difference between their scores. Now, I know pairs teams dislike oDs and only the two Chinese teams put them in their FSs, but a point is a point. When the top teams are fulling capable of doing it without the risk as in the 4Tw, why oh why would they not do that?
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,184
When the top teams are fulling capable of doing it without the risk as in the 4Tw, why oh why would they not do that?
Because choreographically it didn't work with what they were trying to accomplish? I mean, I think most of the time they are hideous and I wouldn't put them in my program on a regular basis either.

Also, the Outside Death Spirals tend to not get as low as the Inside ones. How much risk is there that the element won't get base value because they didn't get low enough? I don't pay enough attention to the protocols to know how often that happens.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,918
Because choreographically it didn't work with what they were trying to accomplish? I mean, I think most of the time they are hideous and I wouldn't put them in my program on a regular basis either.

Also, the Outside Death Spirals tend to not get as low as the Inside ones. How much risk is there that the element won't get base value because they didn't get low enough? I don't pay enough attention to the protocols to know how often that happens.
That's why both Chinese couples had those unusual positions in the death spiral, because it dropped the women's head down to a position where it would get the level.
 

Mordra

Member
Messages
80
Yes, the choreographer wouldn't want them but the coach should. ;)

In the SP, where the oDs is often a required element,

T/M BoDs4 4.70 1.95 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 6.65

There isn't much risk as they have to train and do them well regardless.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,142
I also don't believe that everyone can do a FO death spiral - it's been an incredibly rare move even before IJS - I think Shen&Zhao are the only other skaters I can think of who did it pre IJS, and I think a Russian pair also did it.

And whether or not they are fugly, it has never stopped skaters from doing fugly things if there are points on the table - see any number of spirals, or spin positions that skaters do for the points.

I was told during the PBP that because the mandated death spiral in the SP was BO, the pairs can't include the BO death spiral in the LP. So in years where BO is the death spiral in the SP it gives an advantage to any skaters that can do FO death spiral in the LP.
 
Last edited:

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
6,558
I also don't believe that everyone can do a FO death spiral - it's been an incredibly rare move even before IJS - I think Shen&Zhao are the only other skaters I can think of who did it pre IJS, and I think a Russian pair also did it.
And I believe the way Shen & Zhao did it is no longer allowed. Her free leg position made it easier, though, the details escape me. Someone in-teknik about Pairs can clarify this.
 

Taso

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,314
I also don't believe that everyone can do a FO death spiral - it's been an incredibly rare move even before IJS - I think Shen&Zhao are the only other skaters I can think of who did it pre IJS, and I think a Russian pair also did it.
I can't recall the Russian pair in this moment. Brasseur & Eisler actually did it, and surprisingly enough it is the least fugly one I can recall.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,142
I can't recall the Russian pair in this moment. Brasseur & Eisler actually did it, and surprisingly enough it is the least fugly one I can recall.
It may have been a junior Russian team from memory they looked young maybe their first season up from Juniors.
 

vu2019

Active Member
Messages
58
I also don't believe that everyone can do a FO death spiral - it's been an incredibly rare move even before IJS - I think Shen&Zhao are the only other skaters I can think of who did it pre IJS, and I think a Russian pair also did it.

And whether or not they are fugly, it has never stopped skaters from doing fugly things if there are points on the table - see any number of spirals, or spin positions that skaters do for the points.

I was told during the PBP that because the mandated death spiral in the SP was BO, the pairs can't include the BO death spiral in the LP. So in years where BO is the death spiral in the SP it gives an advantage to any skaters that can do FO death spiral in the LP.

Yes, that's correct, the free skate death spiral for seniors can't be the same as the required one in the short program (Rule 621 paragraph 2).

Here is a query of FoDs% in the SkatingScores database for the 50 top scoring FoDs. Not too many distinct teams on the list.
 

Taso

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,314
Yes, that's correct, the free skate death spiral for seniors can't be the same as the required one in the short program (Rule 621 paragraph 2).

Here is a query of FoDs% in the SkatingScores database for the 50 top scoring FoDs. Not too many distinct teams on the list.
Thank you! Ok so Pavlyuchenko & Khodykin are the contemporary Russian pair. Cool to see that Stellato & Deschamps are going for it, too.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
49,184
Also just remembering the Protopopovs did FODS, they were the first. Theirs was definitely not fugly
Didn't they invent the move? I remember them saying that each position had a different name so there was also a Love Spiral and some other Spirals and only the Death Spiral name stuck.
 

Taso

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,314
Didn't they invent the move? I remember them saying that each position had a different name so there was also a Love Spiral and some other Spirals and only the Death Spiral name stuck.
I think they did. The other spiral is the cosmic spiral. I have no idea which one is which!
 

Nikki Lee

Well-Known Member
Messages
239

floskate

Vacant
Messages
9,879
I think they did. The other spiral is the cosmic spiral. I have no idea which one is which!
Here's a video of the Protopopov's performing all four of their spirals in exhibition. I wonder if the relative softness of the boots back then made sustaining that LFO edge on the FODS easier. This video also serves to highlight how RBO death spirals were better 53 years ago than they are now. Sublime positions!

https://youtu.be/d61t0KQFa_g?t=254
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,303
I've never done a death spiral, but based on how spirals feel, I have to imagine a FOD is much more treacherous and would be easier to lose the edge than the BOD (apart from the easier to get low enough difference between outside and inside).
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information