2022 Four Continents Comes To Rude Euro Land (Relocation to Tallinn)

RoseRed

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I wonder if Estonia will get a host spot(s) for hosting 4CC? Even with Euros the week prior, some of their skaters may want to do both competitions (cough Kiibus cough). And even if not, Estonia has enough depth in singles where they could definitely send a B team to 4CC if they were allocated a spot or two.
I'd support that. Especially in men, they only have one spot at Euros, but at least 3 good male skaters (Aleksandr Selevko, Mihhail Selevko, Arlet Levandi).
 

alchemy void

Post-its for the win.
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Sometimes I really think some North Americans here do not get how prestigious Europeans is for European skaters and how prestigious it is to host the event prior to an Olympics.
How could we not, thanks to your persistent reminders? :p

Euros is the sport's oldest championship (older than Worlds) and I doubt many think it has the same prestige as a championship with 100 years less history.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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I must note that Phil Hersh replied to me on Twitter that 4Cs is "not necessary in an Oly year." I'm too busy at work today to get into an argument with him but feel free to pick up!
There are sports that don't hold their World Championships during an Olympic year. I don't think it's unreasonable for the ISU to look at the schedule and decide not to hold 4CCs/Euros in an Olympic year. If it had always been that way and the ISU said they were going to hold them anyway, lots of people would be up in arms about that. It's often what we're used to that forms our opinions about how it should be.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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I thought they did when Z/E finished second and P/K and B/K competed at Europeans, but Wikipedia says Z/E WD and P/K were substitutes. Also, that in one of the more recent Women's rankings based on their test skate results, they did the same, but, I don't even know where to start to try to find that, so I'll just say, you are right, and I am wrong, and the Russian Fed never used Euros as a skate-off.
 

Panja

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Whichever teams finish 4th-6th at US Nats will be sent for dance, guaranteed.

US and Japan will send their 4th-6th place singles also (and it will still be a really strong competition with those skaters).

Korea will have a 4CCs ranking competition for the men and women who don't get sent to the Olympics.

Canada, the US and China will send their 3rd & 4th place pairs to this competition also.

Better travel time for the Central Asian skaters to Tallinn than anywhere else, so there is that upside.
This. I happen to enjoy the up and coming 4th to 6th Dance Teams in the US and Canada. Same thing with the singles, but then obviously including Japanese and Korean singles skaters. Pairs: exactly the same thing. Canada and the US (and China, but I'm not sure any Chinese will come at all) have excellent pairs in the second tier (in fact their Nationals still have to decide and it's pretty close for some). And having some nice Dance Teams from Japan (two?) and Korea (also two? although I'm not sure the youngest can already attend). Let's not forget the Australians either. They've got a lovely up and coming pairs team who may not have got one of the three spots for the OG but definitely made an excellent impression.

I am just so pleased that these skaters can all compete at an 4CC. And that we can watch them perform.
 
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MsZem

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I'll just say, you are right, and I am wrong, and the Russian Fed never used Euros as a skate-off.
Euros has been used as a deciding event, but typically this was done to choose between a country's top skaters. Examples I can recall are the Italian women in 2010 (Marchei was national champion, Kostner won Euros and went to Vancouver) and the French men in 2002 (Joubert was third at both Nationals and Euros, which got him additional assignments).
 

Jayar

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It's obvious, but the biggest issues with 4CCs are time and distance. Europeans have a distinct advantage with that regard, so it is much easier to participate in both Euros and Olympics. The US and Canada complicate things by holding their national championships at the beginning of the year so that team members would have to travel from one event to the next without issue. That being said, Europeans is a much more prestigious event in the eyes of many, whereas 4CCs is seen as a consolation prize to some. In some ways, the countries represented by 4CCs have a distinct advantage over their European counterparts because they can have (often) double the number of skaters earning ISU points which can lead to GP assignments.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico, via Russia - to the World!
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....). Let's not forget the Australians either. They've got a lovely up and coming pairs team who may not have got one of the three spots for the OG b....
That Aussie pair is scheduled to compete this week at JGP7 in Linz. Maybe they’ll improve on their 5th place at JGP Krasnoyarsk?
 

screech

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Haven't some countries used 4CC as the final selection criteria for their Olympic spots?

Seems pretty necessary in an Olympic year to me.
If US and Canada require a skate-off, then I'm sure Tallinn will be a 'stop over' en route to China, though it's a few weeks before the start of the games. If they can't have a base near Beijing, maybe stay a while in Europe, before continuing to Beijing. That's the only way I could see it working, because I definitely would not want to go to Europe, back to NA, then to Asia within a one month period, and would definitely not be at my peak with all that travel (and potential exposure to the Voldemort ***** (since we can't say its name), or even a cold or flu.
 

kwanfan1818

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The US and Canada "complicate" things by having their championships after the part of the calendar when the vast majority of their country celebrates major religious (-based, at least) holidays and when the official Federal holiday days are.

One of the great things about regional championships is that you get to see so many wonderful skaters for whom there are multiple Euros/4C's spots, but only one Worlds spot.

It was a nearly decade of attempts by Drei, Kettunen, and Poykio before Poykio earned a second spot at Worlds for Finland, but it was a privilege to see all three at 2003 Euros. (Edges like buttah :swoon:). It's been great to see three KOR Ladies -- in most years all three earned, but always, two -- while they've worked to build their program past Yuna Kim. It's great to see the young kids compete at regional championships when the strongest one or two skaters earn one or two spots at Worlds.
 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
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It's obvious, but the biggest issues with 4CCs are time and distance. Europeans have a distinct advantage with that regard, so it is much easier to participate in both Euros and Olympics.
Tell that to all the ice dancers in Montreal or the European skaters training in California or New Jersey.
 

Karen-W

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I think we've already established that there are cultural and calendar reasons why the US and Canada hold their Nationals in January vs late November or December. Discussing it ad nauseum won't move either fed into shifting their entire competition calendar to accommodate a pre-Christmas Nationals nor even a last week of December Nationals.

1) GPF is the 2nd weekend of December - if the last 2 weeks of December are out because of Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa, New Year's - then exactly when should the US and Canada have Nationals if not in January?

2) the US and Canada already move their Nationals up during Olympic years so that a) they are the first full week of January, and b) simultaneously held instead of different weeks

I'm not sure exactly how many more concessions some of you want out of the 4CCs nations with regard to the scheduling of the event during Olympic years, nor am I sure why it bothers some of you so much that the 4CCs nations often choose to not send their Olympics-bound skaters to 4CCs.

It isn't even as if it is JUST the US and Canadian skaters who stay away from 4CCs during the Olympic season. Brazil's Isadora Williams and the Philippines Michael Christian Martinez didn't compete at 2018 4CCs. Yuna Kim didn't go to 2010 4CCs. This has been discussed in this thread even just during the last 3 weeks since China pulled out of hosting and yet some people here are continuing to beat on this topic like it is somehow going to change how ALL of the 4CCs nations (with the possible exception of Australia) treat and view 4CCs during an Olympic year.

The events are different and have a different approach from their member feds. Get over it.
 

haribobo

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I am thankful for Estonia and also that more people don't think like Phil Hersh. I am glad for Cain/Leduc, Lu/Mitrofanov, Liu/O'Shea in Pairs, and C/P, G/P, and presumably C/Y in Dance, and US Men and Women 4-6. Also glad for whichever Canadian Pairs, Women, and Men finish 3-5 at Nats and Dance finishers 4-6. As well JPN and all the other 4CC countries sending skaters...
 

Karen-W

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I am thankful for Estonia and also that more people don't think like Phil Hersh. I am glad for Cain/Leduc, Lu/Mitrofanov, Liu/O'Shea in Pairs, and C/P, G/P, and presumably C/Y in Dance, and US Men and Women 4-6. Also glad for whichever Canadian Pairs, Women, and Men finish 3-5 at Nats and Dance finishers 4-6. As well JPN and all the other 4CC countries sending skaters...
Wow. So, you're already assuming that C-G/L and L/M will lose to C/J at Nationals? Sorry but, nah... We'll have a better idea of how C-G/L are looking against C/J after this weekend but I don't think we can assume that whatever shape Ashley is in from her C19 recovery now is the same shape she will be in by January. And Lu/Mitrofanov are more than capable if hitting their jumps when the rest of the field doesn't. Though I'm not sure what Mitrofanov's citizenship status is so where they place at Nats might be irrelevant.
 

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