2021 Men FS - Voulez-Pooh

Vagabond

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It’s not just Hanyu’s 2 Olympic wins. Hanyu is the reason Nathan is doing 5 quads - because it’s the only way he can beat him. All those difficult jump entries that people are trying? Hanyu. Back counter into 3 axel? Hanyu. Spread eagle into and out of jumps? Hanyu.
Hanyu didn't invent those. Matthew Savoie, for example, used to do a back counter into a triple axel, and Midori Ito used to do one into a double axel.

Chen does programs with five quadruple jumps because he can.
 
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Carolla5501

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It’s not just Hanyu’s 2 Olympic wins. Hanyu is the reason Nathan is doing 5 quads - because it’s the only way he can beat him. All those difficult jump entries that people are trying? Hanyu. Back counter into 3 axel? Hanyu. Spread eagle into and out of jumps? Hanyu.

And while I love Chen, the quality of Hanyu”s blade work is superior. Watch the opening of his Chopin short. He covers almost half the rink with one simple turn (can’t remember it’s a bracket or counter). We don’t see those type of sweeping sustained edges from Chen, who is more the Paul Wylie type of super fast footwork.

There’s no question that Hanyu was not his best today, but please give the man his due. Not because of his 2 Olympic championships, but for what he has done on the ice over more than a decade.
If you really believe the stuff you wrote. I have an investment opportunity with a Nigerian prince you cannot afford to miss


Let me guess before Hanyu the skaters just walked on the ice and stood there for 4 1/2 minutes. I mean they didn’t have to do jumps, they didn’t have to do transitions, etc. LOL
 
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BittyBug

The missing ingredient
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So you don't think that competition advances the sport? Maybe you're the one who should be following up on that investment opportunity. :rolleyes:


"It's nice to have someone who pushes you on and off of the ice, who is competitive and also improving," Chen said. "And showing they are ahead of you in some areas, so I can say, 'This is how I can get better.'"


“He is, obviously, the top skater right now,” Chen said when asked to analyze the competition. “Not that the other skaters aren’t a challenge, but Yuzu’s definitely the biggest challenge of all.”
 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
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Are there any posters who like both of them but see flaws with both of them based on the content they put out and/or other little stuff they could improve without it becoming a direct comparison or meaning that you automatically dislike the other? ;)
Believe it or not, I love Chen - he's absolutely phenomenal.

Things I love about Chen: His arms / port de bras, fast feet, effortless jumps, musicality, willingness to try new styles.

What I think Chen could improve (and this is really nit picking): keeping his shoulders down, run out on his landings, spins (sometimes they're sloppy), his costumes :shuffle:

What I love about Hanyu: Effortless sweeping edges, complex transitions into and out of jumps, his triple axel, competitive composure.

What I think Hanyu could improve: His carriage, staying in the program when he makes a mistake, more variety in his choreography, his costumes :shuffle:
 

Carolla5501

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In his prime I loved Hanyu. Now not so much. I’m sorry the skating skills aren’t there, the jumps are not there.

I think he sacrificed everything to be the first with a quad axel. And unfortunately he’s leaving us with an impression of a skater who is being held up because he is a legend. I honestly think he should have come in lower and had it been anyone else with that free skate, I’m not sure they would have been on the podium.
 

skateboy

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In his prime I loved Hanyu. Now not so much. I’m sorry the skating skills aren’t there, the jumps are not there.

I think he sacrificed everything to be the first with a quad axel. And unfortunately he’s leaving us with an impression of a skater who is being held up because he is a legend. I honestly think he should have come in lower and had it been anyone else with that free skate, I’m not sure they would have been on the podium.
My feelings 100%.

I know I was pretty hard on Hanyu earlier in the thread. I thought he was amazing post-Sochi, during his rivalry with Javi. He put out some terrific programs with consistent 4sals and 4toes.

But now the standards have changed, and I feel like Yuzu's performances have become... sort of stale. (And no, I am not basing this just on this Worlds FS.) He's a competitor so, if he makes a run at Beijing, I'm sure he will give it his all.
 

Dragonlady

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Are there any posters who like both of them but see flaws with both of them based on the content they put out and/or other little stuff they could improve without it becoming a direct comparison or meaning that you automatically dislike the other? ;)

Yes, I do like both of them, especially since Nathan starting adding more complex choreography, and transitions. I was really looking forward to this head to head, but it didn't happen. Nathan failed to show up for the short, and Yuzu the long.

I'm not sure which I would prefer if both skated to their potential, in the same competition, since it's never happened.
 

Carolla5501

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So I just went and watched the men’s program again. Because I’ve read all the excuses that Hanyu was having an asthma attack, all I can say is at the end of his skate this does not look like a man who is having an asthma attack. And of course if he was having an asthma attack wouldn’t it have made his jumps get worse during the skate as he struggled for air? Jumps got better as the skate went on.

That said the artistry was missing (in spite of Johnny’s gushing over his artistry)! I’m sorry I don’t know what he’s doing but I also watched his 2018 Olympic program. And it’s a sad comparison in my opinion. I don’t know what he needs to do, because I’m not a skating judge or coach but I feel like he’s headed the wrong direction. That Olympic program was beautiful. This worlds program was not.
 

Aceon6

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That said the artistry was missing (in spite of Johnny’s gushing over his artistry)! I’m sorry I don’t know what he’s doing but I also watched his 2018 Olympic program. And it’s a sad comparison in my opinion. I don’t know what he needs to do, because I’m not a skating judge or coach but I feel like he’s headed the wrong direction. That Olympic program was beautiful. This worlds program was not.
For me, it’s because he looks less strong, maybe even a bit sad. In his best performances, his countenance has been more determined at the start and his body relaxed into the programs as they went along. I didn’t get that this time.
 

jenny12

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I think both Nathan and Yuzu have their flaws when it comes to the presentation side of thing. Yuzu can become loose and a bit sloppy with him movement some time and I find Nathan rather stiff and lacking in dramatic presence. I preferred both Kolyada and Uno in terms of presentation this season. That said, as much as he’s done it, Hanyu’s short program to Chopin (as much as he’s repeated it) is a program I continually
come back to and watch. As much as I admire Nathan, I can’t say actively revisit his programs. However, that is just a matter of taste.
 

allezfred

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Article in Japanese with a photo of Yuma Kagiyama pushing his dad Masakazu in a wheelchair on arriving home to Japan. Masakazu suffered a brain haemorrhage in 2018 and is still going through rehab. Worlds was his first trip abroad with Yuma since the illness.

 

SLIVER

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Article in Japanese with a photo of Yuma Kagiyama pushing his dad Masakazu in a wheelchair on arriving home to Japan. Masakazu suffered a brain haemorrhage in 2018 and is still going through rehab. Worlds was his first trip abroad with Yuma since the illness.


I always wondered what happened to Mazakazu but I know that it is slightly inappropriate to ask about someone’s health problems if they don’t disclose the information themselves. He had the most incredible knee bend and gorgeous triple lutz and flip, he has thought his son a very similar technique.
He is still a relatively young man, probably not much older than 50.
 

Vagabond

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I always wondered what happened to Mazakazu but I know that it is slightly inappropriate to ask about someone’s health problems if they don’t disclose the information themselves. He had the most incredible knee bend and gorgeous triple lutz and flip, he has thought his son a very similar technique.
He is still a relatively young man, probably not much older than 50.
His fiftieth birthday is in just a few days.

 

allezfred

Lipinski Stole My Catchphrase
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I always wondered what happened to Mazakazu but I know that it is slightly inappropriate to ask about someone’s health problems if they don’t disclose the information themselves.
Ever since Yuma has started to make a name for himself, Masakazu’s condition has been public knowledge in Japan. :)
 

antmanb

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It's taken me this long to finally catch up with worlds. What an amazing competition.

Totally random thoughts - I hate Robbie Williams's Let me Entertain You and i'm not a big fan of Hanyu's SP to it either :shuffle: you need to be more cocky and have an attitude to even hope to pull that programme off and Hanyu doesn't have it (i felt the same when he had the Prince programme too, they're not good choices for him) the LP was a lot better, but the complex transition filled programmes of a few years ago aren't there any more so when the jumps aren't there it's not quite the same level it used to be.

Chen produced the most amazing LP i've ever seen to have that number of difficult quads and have a cohesive programme with nice artistry was incredible. I really hope he and Hanyu skate clean at the Olympics next year and give us some incredible skating to see.

Kolyada looks like he's about 12 years old with the short hair and seems to be getting younger :lol: I loved his programmes and am pleased the move to Mishin has resulted in him having better programmes. Chris Howarth was saying that Mishin has slowed him down a little to give him more control which seems to be working on the jumps at least. I'd love to see him bring back his quad lutz which was just enormous when he landed it.

I was happy with Messing's skates but he is a skater that makes it look hard :lol: The other top skaters make it look smooth and effortless but he looks like's on the edge of wiping out constantly - he skates fast and it looks fast (and dangerous) but he looks like he's battling against the edges rather than sinking into them and having them help him.

I was so happy for Jason's skates - the programmes are beautiful and the fact he stood up on the 4S i was :cheer2:

Honourable mention to Han Yan who i was so happy to see skating back at this level. His speed and the size of his jumps are just :swoon:
 

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