2021/2022 Canadian Men: News and Updates

SLIVER

Well-Known Member
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3,365
We know nothing really, all we do is speculate. However to me, I think replacing Keegan didn't work for him. I don't think he was ready to skate in the team event. Then suddenly he needs to, then suddenly he's skating early, then he messes up and the team might not qualify because of him. Tries to redeem himself for the free and bombs even more. By the time the main event arrived he was fried. Then he draws first again. Personally it looked like someone who cracked under pressure and whose plan was derailed and it spiralled out of control. Total conjecture of course. Some of these skaters visualise every moment for months and months before, when the micro managed plan is changed totally, the ones that aren't as mentally strong can't always handle it.
 
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mackiecat

Well-Known Member
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1,774
Bring a 22 year old going to Olympics before ever having worlds experience is different from being a young phenomenon who gets the chance to go to Olympics early. Two different experiences. The young phenomenon will have no expectations but the 22 year old will feel he has to defend his right to be there ( as so many on social media felt he shouldn’t have been chosen) without the high pressure experience to assist.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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10,574
Bring a 22 year old going to Olympics before ever having worlds experience is different from being a young phenomenon who gets the chance to go to Olympics early. Two different experiences. The young phenomenon will have no expectations but the 22 year old will feel he has to defend his right to be there ( as so many on social media felt he shouldn’t have been chosen) without the high pressure experience to assist.
Yes I can understand the reasoning of why Skate Canada passed Roman over for going to worlds but it really didn’t do Roman any favours.
 

bladesofgorey

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936
Roman should not be sent to worlds obviously, he needs a mental health intervention at this point. For all the lip service mental health in skating has been getting recently with interviews with retired skaters and skaters who are trying to come back to the sport at a high level (Gracie Gold) and people saying "how tough for them, what a shame, so terrible they went through this/felt like that)" a huge percentage of people on here still want to get irrationally angry with someone who obviously was having a nervous breakdown in front of millions and call them a complete failure and disappointment who shouldn't have ever been allowed to get this far.
SMDH.
 

Winnipeg

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4,595
BladesofGlory makes a good point.

There is a difference between normal nerves, which are still an issue to be dealt with, than a nervous breakdown when your body is almost disconnected from your brain. Anxiety where you cannot function. A dancer who is on stage and just stands there because they do not remember the steps; or a speaker who starts having difficulty speaking, gets a shaky voice, mis speaks, etc.

This is a case where most definitely a medical assessment and therapy are needed. No one should be placed in a situation where such anxiety takes over..........how early can this be identified? I don't know.
 

honey

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Messages
1,915
Roman didn’t seem to be skating well in practice either, based on the reports we have. He skated exactly as I expected him to when I read those reports. This indicates to me a much bigger issue. If someone has completely lost their timing for almost every jump due to nerves/stress of a big event and cannot sort it out over the course of 8 days and 3 performances, I really feel like it goes beyond normal competition nerves. I really hope Roman is ok, and being given support because that must have been devastating for him. But, if the reason behind it doesn’t get worked out, I see this happening again unfortunately.

I think he earned his spot fair and square, and would still have sent him here. But there needs to be a really long and hard look at what went so wrong here (and has gone so wrong in the past as well), so hopefully he can handle himself at the next big event.
 

screech

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7,104
I don't know whether I would pull him from Worlds or not. On the one hand, he earned his spot there. On the other hand, he may be a hinderance in Canada's rankings.

But who to replace him with? Stephen and Wesley are at the junior worlds just a week before, so unless one of them is replaced there, it would have to be someone else. Joseph would make the most sense in that case. But in reality, everyone other than Keegan is an unknown entity, and can we really expect anyone else to do much better than Roman at Worlds? Other than if they chose Nam, it would be the first Worlds for everyone. A great experience for everyone, but we don't know how any of them would hold up.

Because of literally everyone being an unknown, I don't think SC will pull him from Worlds; I think it would be more likely for him to withdraw himself, if he doesn't think he can handle it. Especially because it will likely be even more pressure than it was here, since he'll have the need to 'redeem himself'
 

bladesofgorey

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936
I guess I feel for him because I used to suffer from debilitating panic attacks when I was much younger, and they would sometimes take over a full week of my life (or more). Depression, a panic disorder, crippling anxiety, any one of these things appear to have been what Roman was suffering with and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I hope he has access to a very good therapist to help him deal with the aftermath (and the outsized shame he's probably internalizing). That's way more important right now than any plans for how to avoid this in the future. The person needs to be taken care of first, then the athlete if he even decides he wants to continue on once he can make peace with what happens. I hope he realizes this doesn't define him as a person or make him doubt his worth as a human being (and athlete) who has been able to accomplish amazing things. I wasn't familiar with him or his skating before Canadian nationals this year, and he wasn't really on my radar for the Olympics either so I have no dog in this fight but I recognize someone who is suffering and probably being tortured by their own mind right now, and I hope he is shielded from all of the social media and message boards calling him a spineless weak loser who let everyone down.
 

ichiro

Well-Known Member
Messages
802
Great job to Keegan - can't imagine what he's going through. I feel for Roman 3 bad performances not the Olympics' he wanted. You could just read the anxiety on his face when he stepped on the ice for all 3 of his performances. Though like others mention I think it's time if he hasn't yet to seek maybe a sports psychologist. And for me the next thing is maybe it's time to leave his childhood coach for someone with more international experience. Someone that can guide him and calm his nerves. As he has so much talent, Hopefully he learns from this experience and becomes back stronger in 2026 :)
 

puglover

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2,531
Roman did leave his long time coach and skated with Brian Orser and Lee Barkell - maybe 2017 or so, but he returned to Tracy. I also think it is safe to assume that he has had access to a sports psychologist. His problems began in earnest with his growth. My mind goes back to the PC Olympics where Gabby D. skated well and contributed to Canada's team gold medal only to fall apart in the individual free and really struggle. I know she has also had physical issues but I thought at Canadians this year she finally did not look scared to death out there. No one should come away from a sport they love a physically and or mentally seriously damaged individual.
 

Alilou

Ubercavorter
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6,887
I don't know whether I would pull him from Worlds or not. On the one hand, he earned his spot there. On the other hand, he may be a hinderance in Canada's rankings.

But who to replace him with? Stephen and Wesley are at the junior worlds just a week before, so unless one of them is replaced there, it would have to be someone else. Joseph would make the most sense in that case. But in reality, everyone other than Keegan is an unknown entity, and can we really expect anyone else to do much better than Roman at Worlds? Other than if they chose Nam, it would be the first Worlds for everyone. A great experience for everyone, but we don't know how any of them would hold up.

Because of literally everyone being an unknown, I don't think SC will pull him from Worlds; I think it would be more likely for him to withdraw himself, if he doesn't think he can handle it. Especially because it will likely be even more pressure than it was here, since he'll have the need to 'redeem himself'
At this point I don't think Roman's an unknown.
 

karmena

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Messages
251
Agree re his coach ( though I know nothing, just theoretically). Perhaps his coach is perfect but has been too close to him and was not able/blind see his psychological issues which needed to be addressed a long, long time ago. Mental preparation for the Olympics is no less important than physical preparation. For someone a psychological structure is strong and no outside help needed but for somebody else this outside hep is essential.
wish for Roman to find his inner strength/help he needs.
 

Katta

Active Member
Messages
240
I guess I feel for him because I used to suffer from debilitating panic attacks when I was much younger, and they would sometimes take over a full week of my life (or more). Depression, a panic disorder, crippling anxiety, any one of these things appear to have been what Roman was suffering with and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I hope he has access to a very good therapist to help him deal with the aftermath (and the outsized shame he's probably internalizing). That's way more important right now than any plans for how to avoid this in the future. The person needs to be taken care of first, then the athlete if he even decides he wants to continue on once he can make peace with what happens. I hope he realizes this doesn't define him as a person or make him doubt his worth as a human being (and athlete) who has been able to accomplish amazing things. I wasn't familiar with him or his skating before Canadian nationals this year, and he wasn't really on my radar for the Olympics either so I have no dog in this fight but I recognize someone who is suffering and probably being tortured by their own mind right now, and I hope he is shielded from all of the social media and message boards calling him a spineless weak loser who let everyone down.

I agree with every single word you wrote! He needs professional help to work through these past 8-10 days and not before that is done (which can take quite a while) should a decision about any future skating be made. I hope and pray that Skate Canada treats him with all the care in the world and gives him time and space. I also hope his coaching team will advise him to skip worlds; i don't think it would be good for him to go at this point.

on a brighter note, so happy that Keegan finally made it and that he had a solid skate.
 

DreamSkates

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3,188
BladesofGlory makes a good point.

There is a difference between normal nerves, which are still an issue to be dealt with, than a nervous breakdown when your body is almost disconnected from your brain. Anxiety where you cannot function. A dancer who is on stage and just stands there because they do not remember the steps; or a speaker who starts having difficulty speaking, gets a shaky voice, mis speaks, etc.

This is a case where most definitely a medical assessment and therapy are needed. No one should be placed in a situation where such anxiety takes over..........how early can this be identified? I don't know.
Maybe what happened to Amyoz at one of the GP events, was it last year? I’ve never seen such horrible and falls in a program.
 

I Luv Bulldogs

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260
we are not all robots therefore we all react differently to different situations - and yes stress - they feel they are letting down their families who have sacrificed so much, their coaches, fans - themselves!

You clearly don't spend much time around elite athletes (or high level academics) - most of them are perfectionists which can work in your favour or it can eat you alive. If we are talking about age being younger can often be an advantage because you don't see it as your last chance.

No wonder so many kids quit sports in the teen years when they are all supposed to be perfect all the time and never have a bad day/week.
But Roman has been consistently inconsistent. He has had more "bad" days than "good".

I hope he has a good support system. I can't imagine dedicating yourself to a sport and dreaming of the olys only to crash and burn so publicly.
 

Colonel Green

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12,509
But Roman has been consistently inconsistent. He has had more "bad" days than "good".
Yeah, while the pressures of this event produced a particularly bad set of skates from Roman, none of this is at all unprecedented from him, and he does not skate well at relatively low-stakes events either. He has had at least one 60-69 range short program in every season as a senior, and regularly posts free skate scores in the 120s-130s.

He has obvious jumping limitations imposed by his height, but assuming he's able to practice these jumps with reasonable consistency, he simply is not a good competitor.
 

fsfann

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3,444
I'm also curious if skaters feel as much "pressure" at the Olympics without any crowds... I wonder if it feels as "high pressure" as a typical olympics when you have a crowd there cheering loudly...?
 

pointbleu

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750
I'm also curious if skaters feel as much "pressure" at the Olympics without any crowds... I wonder if it feels as "high pressure" as a typical olympics when you have a crowd there cheering loudly...?
I had the same question the other day.
 

Panja

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Messages
94
I'm just thinking about good nerves and bad nerves. I love to speak at seminars or be a guest lecturer at Universities but I still get the nerves. Usually it's one sentence when my voice isn't perfect but then I just go. And, also, I get into the flow and I even get compliments for how well it went. I have a colleague whose voice goes double, and she just doesn't manage it. Her voice remains on the too high level and sometimes she's made fun of by the students- which worsens it. Even though she loves to speak just as I do. It's as if Roman's got the wrong kind of nerves...the devastating kind. He loves to skate (that's not it), he should have just a problem with his first turn and then on you go. But no, he seems to be like my colleague. What a pity. I sincerely hope a mental coach can help.
 

aussieSKATES

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Messages
246
I don't know whether I would pull him from Worlds or not. On the one hand, he earned his spot there. On the other hand, he may be a hinderance in Canada's rankings.

But who to replace him with? Stephen and Wesley are at the junior worlds just a week before, so unless one of them is replaced there, it would have to be someone else. Joseph would make the most sense in that case. But in reality, everyone other than Keegan is an unknown entity, and can we really expect anyone else to do much better than Roman at Worlds? Other than if they chose Nam, it would be the first Worlds for everyone. A great experience for everyone, but we don't know how any of them would hold up.

Because of literally everyone being an unknown, I don't think SC will pull him from Worlds; I think it would be more likely for him to withdraw himself, if he doesn't think he can handle it. Especially because it will likely be even more pressure than it was here, since he'll have the need to 'redeem himself'
If Canada pulls Sadovsky from the World Championships, the men's results in Beijing seem to indicate they'll need to find a skater who can produce 76 points in the short program or more to make the cut. Phan, Chiu, and Gogolev have all achieved that score, but at the Junior Grand Prix Series level.
 

tony

The older, the crankier
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14,134
I'm still failing to understand what was really that shocking about Sadovsky's performance. He won Nationals in 2020 and then, as I mentioned way upthread, (I'm pretty sure) had the worst result ever by a Canadian man in the 4CC. He goes from really bad performances at Grand Prix events one week to a medal or a very strong performance a few weeks later. He barely qualified Canada the second spot at Nebelhorn and several people commented that they thought he was gifted there. None of this is new, and Skate Canada has to know the risk with assigning him to events.

Was he having a panic or anxiety attack? I don't think he 'clearly' was as someone claims, I think this is just his timing constantly being rushed in competition hence why we see a lot of pops. I also think that he probably has a lower success rate on the jumps in practices and warmups anyways, so for me it wasn't like a shell-shock moment that he wasn't able to deliver. He's a mini-Sandhu where you either get medals or you get borderline disaster performances, but with Sandhu his favor was that the rest of the field wasn't doing quads and upped technical content like is the case now.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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33,871
Skate Canada already has enough :argue: with its, um, selective interpretation of the rules in making its choices for the pairs at Worlds.

Roman earned his spot at Worlds with his placement at Nationals. There is nothing in Skate Canada's selection rules for the Worlds team about pulling an athlete off the team if they don't do well at the Olympics. The athlete can choose not to compete, but Skate Canada can't take them off the team.

If Skate Canada pulls Roman from the Worlds team now, the message that's going to send to every up-and-coming young skater in Canada is that you'd better do well at every single international competition OR ELSE. Do you really think that's going to help develop better World and Olympic teams in the future?
 
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tony

The older, the crankier
Messages
14,134
Roman earned his spot at Worlds with his placement at Nationals. There is nothing in Skate Canada's selection rules for the Worlds team about pulling an athlete off the team if they don't do well at the Olympics. The athlete can choose not to compete, but Skate Canada can't take them off the team.
But they name substitutes and can swap anyone out with little to no explanation if they so choose.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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33,871
My mind goes back to the PC Olympics where Gabby D. skated well and contributed to Canada's team gold medal only to fall apart in the individual free and really struggle.

I was thinking about this too. She finished 15th at the Olympics and then went to Worlds right afterwards and placed seventh. Imagine what it would have done to her mental health and her self-confidence if Skate Canada had pulled her from the Worlds team after that horrible free skate at the Olympics.
 

fsfann

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3,444
I was thinking about this too. She finished 15th at the Olympics and then went to Worlds right afterwards and placed seventh. Imagine what it would have done to her mental health and her self-confidence if Skate Canada had pulled her from the Worlds team after that horrible free skate at the Olympics.
That was one horrible skate. After numerous solid skates.

This is a very different situation. 3 complete bombs in a row.
 

manhn

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14,436
Daleman had a lot of strong enough performances and results to not question her placement on the Team. I don’t have a problem with skating federations not relying on Nationals for such acclaimed competitions. If replacing Roman sends such a message, I guess don’t see what’s wrong with the actual message? Yes, if you actually do well in EVERY international event, why shouldn’t you make the Worlds or Olympics team despite a bad performance at Nationals? I am still bitter about Buttle.


If replaced, Roman will be replaced by another young skater (well, I suppose it could be Nam). Will that young skater have a problem with the message?

If Piper and Paul had a bomb of a performance, it’s not like people would suggest they not be sent to Worlds. But imagine if Vanessa and Eric bombed….
 

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