2020 U.S. Presidential Election

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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Bloomberg say Senior officials in Biden's campaign team are worried about Black and Latino turnout in Florida and Pennsylvania. I don’t get why... they support the Republicans?

Speaking for Pennsylvania, Hispanics do not support Trump. The largest city (Allentown) in my county is majority Hispanic. Even my little city is 30% Hispanic. The vast majority are of Puerto Rican heritage and the next most numerous, Dominican. They do not live in a MAGA induced bubble and they do not like Trump.

The greatest enemy here is failure to vote. Hispanics in my area do not vote in an amount (ETA: percentage) equal to the population, and since most are Puerto Rican, it is not due to immigration issues. I wish I knew the answer for that one, but if Bloomberg's money helps, I'm all in favor. :)
 
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Judy

Well-Known Member
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1,752
well indeed if your goal is to fret, you need to look at every poll.

Biden is in similar shape to Obama at this point in 2008. He will win.

But just to add, and I'm sure people won't believe this, but the popular vote will influence whether some Republicans try to push the envelope on close states. If the popular vote is very strongly in Biden's favor as polls suggest, they are not going to split every hair because there are more than a few Republicans (not including Trump) who actually don't want to blow up the country.

Remember the 2000 election had Gore ahead in the popular vote by a much smaller margin than Clinton won in 2016 and there was one state that was remarkably close and the whole election turned on that one state and that one state had the wonkiest worst ballot design of all time.

Not happening this time.
They just featured an interview with Gore this morning on CNN. it was Florida right? And it ended up with Supreme Court not allowing a recount of 60,000 votes?
 

caseyedwards

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15,082
It was so awful! They stopped the recount because there was no uniform way of counting dimpled chads! Well there was no uniform way of voting in the first place. Butterfly ballots was a choice. So should have counting dimpled chads
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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15,298
A guy on CNN (whose name I didn't catch) said that it's not just about the Latino vote but the white (suburban) vote. He reminded the viewers that the white suburban vote played a big role in delivering midterms for the Democrats.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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19,950
Bloomberg say Senior officials in Biden's campaign team are worried about Black and Latino turnout in Florida and Pennsylvania. I don’t get why... they support the Republicans?
Hispanic voters are not a monolithic group. I live in a majority Hispanic city and well let’s say I know a lot of Hispanic Trump voters. I know Biden voters too.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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19,950
I work with a few high-powered liberals who would fire, deny promotions, and discriminate against anyone who supported Trump or any Republican for that matter. And it's perfectly legal.

Contrary to this perception of corporate America being pro-Republican, much of it is run by the intolerant liberal left. If you don't subscribe to their political views, you can be sacked with no recourse. There's absolutely no protection against it in most states. One wrong political donation can sink a career.

My method is to keep politics out of work. One my mentors, who privately was a moderate Democrat, advised me to walk the line - be active, donate to political candidates from both parties, show engagement and bipartisanship, with a nod to one party. That may have worked 10 years when things were less polarized. It doesn't work now.

Maybe the 20 or so homeowners are independently wealthy, self-employed, or work for corporations where it's OK to be a Trump supporters. I can guarantee it's not OK at others. And this isn't "woe is me" - it happens to Democrats, too, e.g., the article skatesindreams posted about a Florida business owner threatening to fire anyone who didn't vote for Trump. If we want to live in an open and democratic society, political affiliation should be a protected class, the same as religion. No one should be fired or discriminated against for supporting, donating to, or voting for a political candidate.
I definitely agree with this last point.
We are entering a true danger zone as a society if people are getting fired or held back in their career due to politics. On either side.
Well you have Don Lemon talking about cutting of friends as Trump supporters.

There are things I fundamentally don’t like about either side. Which means things I like about both sides. Neither realize how propagandist they are.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
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14,140
Well you have Don Lemon talking about cutting of friends as Trump supporters.
There's a huge difference between suffering professional repercussions for one's politics (generally wrong) and losing friends because you don't see eye to eye on things.

If I find that my friends are annoying, or no longer likable to me, or that we have too many disagreements for me to want to engage with them, then I should be looking for new friends or making do with fewer friends. I have unfriended people online whose criticism of Israel crossed the line into antisemitism, for example. I'm not obliged to have social relationships with people who make me unhappy.

But people should be able to hold whatever views they want without fear for their jobs, so long as they are not creating a truly hostile work environment/doing things that cross a line and reflect poorly on their employer (e.g. marching with neo-Nazis). Similarly, I wouldn't want any of my students to worry about expressing an opinion in class, or even worse, to fear that their grades might suffer if they don't share my views. Which is why I do my best to avoid any discussions of Israeli politics when I teach, and stick to Trump, European leaders etc. or to issues more generally.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,144
At minimum, I think it's a sign of immaturity to say "unfriend me if you voted for X," or to unfriend / stop speaking to someone who makes one post or says in one polite conversation that they voted for someone other than your preferred candidate. Or someone who politely asks you to stop talking about your own political propaganda. (I lost some friends who took offense that I did not want to listen to their Sanders/Warren/ultra-liberal propaganda - saying that I didn't want to engage in this conversation was enough to label me as an :EVILLE: person. Their loss.)

I do think it's perfectly fair to unfriend / stop speaking to someone who either: (1) floods social media with propaganda, or (2) refuses to "agree to disagree." E.g., invites you to their house for a meal only to have politics dominate the conversation. My ex's family was a mix of crazy liberals and crazy conservatives (both of whom routinely post "fake news" on social media), and there had to be a truce for holidays. When the truce wasn't respected multiple times, the family gatherings stopped. Now there's liberal Thanksgiving and conservative Thanksgiving. Sad that the country has come to this, but not surprising - Trump has inspired derangement on both sides.
 

lala

Well-Known Member
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4,808
I'm not Americans so this is not my voting. But US is the greatest power in the world thus what happens in US has an impact on the whole world. I believe here if USA gets rid of this orange-painted faced :D fool the whole world is going to be a better place! Go Biden!:respec: I'm so excited!:biggrinbo
 

becca

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19,950
There's a huge difference between suffering professional repercussions for one's politics (generally wrong) and losing friends because you don't see eye to eye on things.

If I find that my friends are annoying, or no longer likable to me, or that we have too many disagreements for me to want to engage with them, then I should be looking for new friends or making do with fewer friends. I have unfriended people online whose criticism of Israel crossed the line into antisemitism, for example. I'm not obliged to have social relationships with people who make me unhappy.

But people should be able to hold whatever views they want without fear for their jobs, so long as they are not creating a truly hostile work environment/doing things that cross a line and reflect poorly on their employer (e.g. marching with neo-Nazis). Similarly, I wouldn't want any of my students to worry about expressing an opinion in class, or even worse, to fear that their grades might suffer if they don't share my views. Which is why I do my best to avoid any discussions of Israeli politics when I teach, and stick to Trump, European leaders etc. or to issues more generally.
I have people I love who disagree with me politically and see the world differently. For example here I am as you all know very religious. My mom is too and put me in very small conservative Christian schools.

But what you don’t know is my Dad married an agnostic Jewish woman who I lived with in high school. I want to be clear I am a better person for having her and her family in my life. I learned to see the world different and consider each issue.
I even questioned my faith and choose Catholicism. I learned you can be a good person either side.

There are a ton of good people who are voting for both candidates. Some social conservatives some who think the economy will be better with Trump. And while they hate his language look at his policies like criminal justice reform, increase funding for HBC and opportunity zones and the fact until the ********* minority incomes were rising. And think maybe this President isn’t a Hitler.
The President is starting to gain with black men actuality. I know many who prefer Biden as a person but like Trumps policies better.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
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14,140
Dave Wasserman thinks there's a considerable number of shy Biden voters... among congressional Republicans.

A case for voting Biden by Never Trump conservative Tom Nichols:
It's worth reading the whole thing, but this part is especially striking:
I did not vote in this election based on policy. Neither should you. The election of 2020 is about the moral future of the American nation, and so I voted for a good man with whom I have some political disagreements over an evil man with whom I share not a single value as a human being. Trump is the most morally defective human being ever to hold the office of the presidency, worse by every measure than any of the rascals, satyrs or racists who have sat in the Oval Office. This is vastly more important than marginal tax rates or federal judges.
 

Susan1

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8,740
" "Our doctors get more money if someone dies from *********. You know that, right? I mean our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say 'I'm sorry but everybody dies of *********,' " Trump said,"

At least people didn't cheer. Maybe they were actually thinking about this one. I mean, really, if you have cancer and die in a car accident, the cause of death is not cancer. It's whatever injuries you suffered in the car accident. Same with c.v. :wall:

Every medical person who hasn't voted yet needs to vote for Biden.

p.s. I keep forgetting - they keep using that happy, smiling picture of trump they showed four years ago, where he looks like a normal person, whenever they are talking about the polls. They need a current picture of him looking like the raving lunatic he is.
 

Louis

Private citizen
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15,144
There is? What exactly is the difference?

Sorry, should have been clear - liberal Thanksgiving dinner, and conservative Thanksgiving dinner. The family now self-segregates based on political affiliation. I think it's sad. Some of the kids are caught in the middle if they have different political leanings than their parents.
 

Teamgracie

Well-Known Member
Messages
263
This election is not about policies though. I could have friends that voted for Bush but I could not stick with someone who voted for tr*** because of who he is as a person. I could not be friends with someone who supported a racist, stood by while so many died, made comments about women, and the list goes on. Someone who is okay with him isn’t someone I want around me or children!
 

Judy

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1,752
Eeek?
Sorry, should have been clear - liberal Thanksgiving dinner, and conservative Thanksgiving dinner. The family now self-segregates based on political affiliation. I think it's sad. Some of the kids are caught in the middle if they have different political leanings than their parents.
Living in Canada we have more than two parties. There’s never been political discussion at our get together. Obviously it’s different in the U.S. I don’t know how they all vote .. likely the same as me but I will ask at Christmas. Louis that would drive me insane what you experienced.
 

Vagabond

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17,134
This election is not about policies though. I could have friends that voted for Bush but I could not stick with someone who voted for tr*** because of who he is as a person. I could not be friends with someone who supported a racist, stood by while so many died, made comments about women, and the list goes on. Someone who is okay with him isn’t someone I want around me or children!
Eys. And people are voting for Trump even when they disagree with his policies. For example, they may support free markets, yet he engages in trade wars.

Whether one likes it or not, this election is a referendum on Trump.
 

Judy

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Messages
1,752
At minimum, I think it's a sign of immaturity to say "unfriend me if you voted for X," or to unfriend / stop speaking to someone who makes one post or says in one polite conversation that they voted for someone other than your preferred candidate. Or someone who politely asks you to stop talking about your own political propaganda. (I lost some friends who took offense that I did not want to listen to their Sanders/Warren/ultra-liberal propaganda - saying that I didn't want to engage in this conversation was enough to label me as an :EVILLE: person. Their loss.)

I do think it's perfectly fair to unfriend / stop speaking to someone who either: (1) floods social media with propaganda, or (2) refuses to "agree to disagree." E.g., invites you to their house for a meal only to have politics dominate the conversation. My ex's family was a mix of crazy liberals and crazy conservatives (both of whom routinely post "fake news" on social media), and there had to be a truce for holidays. When the truce wasn't respected multiple times, the family gatherings stopped. Now there's liberal Thanksgiving and conservative Thanksgiving. Sad that the country has come to this, but not surprising - Trump has inspired derangement on both sides.
my facebook friends generally don’t post a lot of political stuff (I have a limited friend list) but I did have one volatile “friend” who I just unfollowed so I wouldn’t get his posts. But he posted a lot of misinformation and obsessively hates our prime minister. It came to a point where he sent me a video of some guy saying that we were building quarantine camps and that his “sources” told him it was being done. He is someone who lived around the corner from me growing up but we really didn’t “know” each other. he just seeks out this shit and it is not reliable sources whatsever. He knows I don’t buy into that crap .. so I was shocked that he sent it to me. So I unfriended and blocked. I suspect mental illness but I don’t really know him personally. I hate the false misinformation out there. There is tons of it.
 

becca

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19,950
This election is not about policies though. I could have friends that voted for Bush but I could not stick with someone who voted for tr*** because of who he is as a person. I could not be friends with someone who supported a racist, stood by while so many died, made comments about women, and the list goes on. Someone who is okay with him isn’t someone I want around me or children!
Just because it’s not about policy for you doesn’t mean it isn’t for others. And numbers are suggesting that Trump is starting to do well with some minorities..

I wonder who the social conservatives are suppose to vote for it’s not like the Democrats want them. And by saying they want to do with the Hyde Ammendment are all but telling people to vote Trump.

Not everyone who is voting for Trump because they like his personality. But whose policies while I like the best is a reasonable question. And policy wise while Trump is no Lyndon B. Johnson he has done things like the First Step Act invest in inner cities etc. Which is why he is making a few inroads.

I don’t like his comments but frankly Biden has made some comments too if you don’t vote for me your not black!
Not to mention their actions towards Tim Scott’s police reform bill.

if the Republicans can continue to follow some of Trumps policies investing in inner cities, HBC, criminal justice reform without the horrible rhetoric they might actually do Wel with minorities.

Heck Frankly I wouldn’t mind Trump losing and four years from now Tim Scott or Nikki Haley.

And part of how Trump came about is because every Republican candidate has been called racist or sexist.

I think it would be good for minorities if they became swing voters maybe more would be done instead the calling pitch has been don’t vote for the Republicans they are racist.
 
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Dobre

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8,296
An editorial that gives credit to a lot of the organizations that are helping make the election happen safely & fighting against efforts of suppression:

Despite Trump’s efforts, democracy is flourishing​


"In defense of our elections, nonpartisan private groups such as the National Task Force on Election Crises, Protect Democracy, the Voter Protection Program, Democracy Docket and the Center for Election Innovation & Research are working on multiple fronts — educating news networks about ballot-counting procedures; fighting disinformation to engaging state officials to thwart voter intimidation; funding election mechanics; litigating against Republican officials trying to make voting harder; rooting out voter database errors and anomalies; and working with social media platforms to devise Election Day anti-disinformation strategies."


"If networks act with particular caution on Nov. 3 and beyond to provide detailed explanations for why voting is slow or might shift dramatically once absentee ballots get counted, you can thank private organizations and state and local officials of both parties who act in good faith. If there is less voter disinformation on social media than you feared, thank these same actors. And if state legislators rebuff efforts to claim the popular vote is not valid and should not be respected, it will not have been because of sheer luck. And if Justice Department employees refuse to participate in shenanigans, thank scores of ex-Justice Department officials and attorneys for prevailing on them to do their part."
 

Susan1

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8,740
This election is not about policies though. I could have friends that voted for Bush but I could not stick with someone who voted for tr*** because of who he is as a person. I could not be friends with someone who supported a racist, stood by while so many died, made comments about women, and the list goes on. Someone who is okay with him isn’t someone I want around me or children!

Yup. In 2004, my boyfriend voted for Bush. I voted for Kerry. We didn't talk about it. I've said before, I never figured a republican president was going to tear apart and ruin the country. Until 4 years ago. I never had to defend a Democrat before. I spent months correcting FB friends and their friends' lies about Hillary. When she lost, I couldn't take the gloating and insults, so I unfriended three of his supporters. No big loss.

@[email protected][email protected]

They interviewed Ohio people for 60 Minutes (tomorrow night). They showed a clip on our local news. One couple, the man voted for trump and the woman voted for Biden. I'll have to see what their reasoning was and how they stay together.

@[email protected][email protected]

I saw a different interview where a woman said Democrats hate America. I keep hearing that, and I want to ask a trumper what exactly that means. I know they got it from trump, but what exactly does that mean - hate America? His slogan is still make America great again, so he and his supporters are the ones who didn't/don't think America is great. And why is he still trying to make America great? Apparently, he has failed to do that the past four years. Just curious.
 

Teamgracie

Well-Known Member
Messages
263
It’s just unbelievable that anyone could think his “policies” have worked for this country. Yeah we are doing great 🤔

And most people do think this is not about policies, minus the cult members.
 

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