2020 U.S. Presidential Election

BlueRidge

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Unfortunately Republicans are probably going to be able to unite around using the false claims made about the 2020 election to pass laws to restrict voting, especially mail in voting.

Opinion | Republicans want to make voting harder. They’ll use the fraud crisis they cooked up to do it. - The Washington Post

Plenty of Trump voters and people who voted for Republicans down ballot voted by mail, by drop box, etc. Republicans increased their turnout and proved that making it easier to vote doesn't necessarily benefit Democrats. Its utterly ridiculous to look at the Democrats failure to win the Senate (to this point) and losses in the House, as well as failure to win state legislatures, and to say that having more people vote harms Republicans. It didn't in this past election, other than Trump who ought to have lost in a landslide!

I wish some voice of reason on this would arise in the Republican Party. Mail-in voting, drop boxes, expanding voting to a month rather than an election day, these are great ways to improve our system and that was demonstrated in 2020.
 

Vash01

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I'm talking about Representitives like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Gohmert, Jordan, Gaetz and Nunes and Senators like the new one from Alabama. I'm talking about Trump's enablers. I'm talking about the mindset of his voters and the people who voted for him. None of that is going to magically disappear once Trump is gone. It may slink back to where it came from but it'll resurface just as quickly.

Trump was/is the symptom, not the illness and an illness isn't gone just because the symptom is gone.




The threat will not be MAGA. The threat will not be Trump. The threat will be authoritarianism, it will be the mindset, and the fact that so many Republicans are willing to vote for a Republican no matter what. They voted for the authoritarian this time and they will vote for the authoritarian the next time. And unless the Republican Party becomes the Party of Lincoln again (which they have no reason to since they get elected anyway) Republicans in Congress will continue to enable the authoritarian as long as that means that they'll keep power.
Excellent points. There will be more Trumps in the future and they could be smarter than this one. They could disguise as Patriots but will want to become dictators. We as the people have to be careful. The Congress needs to strengthen the constitution and the current laws to protect us from authoritarianism. With McConnell, Graham, etc. controlling the senate it will be difficult but we must keep trying. By ‘we’ I mean some republicans whose loyalty is to the country and democracy, and of course all democrats in Congress.
 

tony

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I'm talking about Representitives like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Gohmert, Jordan, Gaetz and Nunes and Senators like the new one from Alabama. I'm talking about Trump's enablers. I'm talking about the mindset of his voters and the people who voted for him. None of that is going to magically disappear once Trump is gone. It may slink back to where it came from but it'll resurface just as quickly.

Trump was/is the symptom, not the illness and an illness isn't gone just because the symptom is gone.




The threat will not be MAGA. The threat will not be Trump. The threat will be authoritarianism, it will be the mindset, and the fact that so many Republicans are willing to vote for a Republican no matter what. They voted for the authoritarian this time and they will vote for the authoritarian the next time. And unless the Republican Party becomes the Party of Lincoln again (which they have no reason to since they get elected anyway) Republicans in Congress will continue to enable the authoritarian as long as that means that they'll keep power.
So are you arguing that all 74 million people who voted Trump are solely voting for an authoritarian? Because the comment that started this was grouping all of them together and assuming they are ready to start a civil war. Or do you get that sometimes people prioritize what's most important to them and it might not line up with what you want? Or do you understand that some people hardly follow politics but show up to the polls every four years? Some people never watch the news and don't have social media, so their only source of info is either from friends or nothing at all. I was torn apart by a few posters for watching the Trump town hall (remember that one?) because people would rather prefer to come here and bitch about everything he does by reading it in an article or something after the fact.

There's a lot of extreme doom and gloom comments constantly on this board. I guarantee you if a Republican came along and actually had a plan that catered more to specific communities (whether that be African Americans, LGBTQ, whatever), there would be quite a few people that see one or two articles pointing it out and it would be enough to jump ship because that ONE issue is most important to them. That's just how it goes, and it's not going to change. There are also Republicans that will argue until they are blue in the face that Biden is a Communist and/or Socialist. Doesn't mean it's right because they think that.

You know how we hear that small-town person going around telling everyone 'NO ONE voted for Biden. I don't know a single person!!' And then it's because they have 3 friends they actually talk to and about 50 Facebook friends total? Doesn't mean their world is real. Those of you trying to clump all Republicans together because of your perceived notions of what they think or what they are doing are no different.
 

BlueRidge

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Worth noting:

Liz Cheney:
“Such objections set an exceptionally dangerous precedent, threatening to steal states’ explicit constitutional responsibility for choosing the President and bestowing it instead on Congress,” Cheney said. “This is directly at odds with the Constitution’s clear text and our core beliefs as Republicans.”

Rob Portman:
He noted that the Constitution “created a system for electing the President through the Electoral College that ensures the people and the states hold the power, not Congress.”

Portman, who said he voted and campaigned for Trump, said he was “disappointed in the election results.”

“Following the election, I supported the Trump campaign’s right to pursue recounts and legal challenges,” reads the statement, adding: “But after two months of recounts and legal challenges, not a single state recount changed a result and, of the dozens of lawsuits filed, not one found evidence of fraud or irregularities widespread enough to change the result of the election.”

Tom Cotton:
“ … The Founders entrusted our elections chiefly to the states — not Congress,” Cotton said. “They entrusted the election of our president to the people, acting through the Electoral College — not Congress. And they entrusted the adjudication of election disputes to the courts — not Congress. Under the Constitution and federal law, Congress’s power is limited to counting electoral votes submitted by the states.”

John Danforth:
“Lending credence to Trump’s false claim that the election was stolen is a highly destructive attack on our constitutional government,” Danforth said in a statement. “It is the opposite of conservative; it is radical.”
Danforth, who served as a Republican senator from Missouri from 1976 to 1995, had championed Hawley in his run for Senate. He said people have asked him to comment on Hawley’s move to challenge the electoral college votes.
“At a time of extreme polarization the populist strategy is to drive America even farther apart by promoting conspiracy theories and stroking grievances,” Danforth added. “We must reject this strategy and reclaim America’s historic purpose of holding our diverse nation together as one people.”
 

BlueRidge

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And in keeping with the above quotes, Margaret Sullivan in the Washington Post makes an important point:

Stop calling Trump's enablers conservative. They are the radical right.

In applying this innocuous-sounding description, the reality-based media does the public a terrible disservice. Instead of calling out the truth, it normalizes; it softens the dangerous edges.

It makes it seem, well, not so bad. Conservative, after all, describes politics devoted to free enterprise and traditional ideas.

But that’s simply false. Sean Hannity is not conservative. Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri and Sen. Tommy Tuberville of Alabama are not conservative. Nor are the other 10 (at last count) senators who plan to object.

This isn't just semantics. Conservative is acceptable to a lot of people. Extremists need to be labeled what they are.

The media has a bizarre manner of labeling everyone on the right "conservative" and everyone on the left "liberal" without regard to what they actually advocate. The media constantly calls democratic socialists like Bernie Sanders "liberal" when that is not what he calls himself. I think with the radical extremists on the right they seek to hide behind the term "conservative." They should not be allowed to get away with that.

A good example of this was in Virginia's 5th Congressional District this year where the radical extremist rightwinger Bob Good ran on the rhetoric of how scary and radical the left is, when in fact he is extraordinarily radical in his rhetoric and politics.
 

Sparks

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Fulton County DA: "Anyone who commits a felony violation of Georgia law in my jurisdiction will be held accountable. Once the investigation [from the Elections Division] is complete, this matter, like all matters, will be handled by our office based on the facts and the law."
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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Business leaders urge Congress to certify Biden win - The Washington Post

Almost 200 of the country’s top business leaders urged Congress to certify the electoral results for President-elect Joe Biden in a letter Monday, arguing that “attempts to thwart or delay this process run counter to the essential tenets of our democracy.”

The letter marked the business community’s most significant push yet to ensure President Trump’s efforts to overturn the November election are unsuccessful. Signers included a wide array of executives of Fortune 500 companies, from the leaders of banks, airlines, investment firms, pharmaceutical companies, professional sports leagues, real estate conglomerates, top law firms and media companies.

“The presidential election has been decided and it is time for the country to move forward,” the letter reviewed by The Washington Post said. “ … The incoming Biden administration faces the urgent tasks of defeating *********-19 and restoring the livelihoods of millions of Americans who have lost jobs and businesses during the *********.”

Once upon a time, business was a major constituency for the Republican Party. I'm guessing the radicals think they are the swamp and think of course they support the "DC Republicans," not Trump.

That's how you can tell the radical extremists aren't conservatives. They are extremists who want to radically remake this country.
 

BlueRidge

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Came across this statement from Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo regarding the column in the Washington Post by the ten former Defense Secretaries warning against using the military to intervene in the election:

“I don’t think that letter gets written unless there is real concern in the highest military (uniformed and civilian) circles that there is either something afoot or a very real worry that President Trump will try to use the military to advance his increasingly desperate effort to stay in office. It simply isn’t written in the ‘wise men saying obvious things’ vein. It seems more focused and specific, reminding people they could face prosecution for following or giving illegal orders.”

This was my feeling on seeing the Defense Secy's statement too. It doesn't seem likely they did this without having heard something that made them concerned. Apparently the effort was organized by Dick Cheney. And at about the same time Liz Cheney was also speaking out. Liz Cheney is #3 Republican in the House right now; she is in a position to hear things.

This is pretty scary stuff.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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WATCH: #Georgia election official
@GabrielSterling
lists a series of debunked conspiracies repeated by
@realDonaldTrump
during his call with
@GaSecofState
in an attempt to change the outcome of the election in his favor: "We have claim after claim after claim with zero proof"


I heard him driving home just now. He was killing it. I think it is well worth listening to as well as reading his points.

Of course, the Trumpalos will try to divert with both sides-isms, or all Republicans are just lined up against poor widdle Donald, or some other nonsense. Diversions that don't work with thinking people.;)

But it does show that some of the 74 million who identify as Republicans can think as well.
 

Dobre

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From the judge of one of the turn-over-the-election-cases. (This one in D.C., I believe):

"Yet even that may be letting Plaintiffs off the hook too lightly. Their failure to make any effort to serve or formally notify any Defendant—even after reminder by the Court in its Minute Order—renders it difficult to believe that the suit is meant seriously. Courts are not instruments through which parties engage in such gamesmanship or symbolic political gestures. As a result, at the conclusion of this litigation, the Court will determine whether to issue an order to show cause why this matter should not be referred to its Committee on Grievances for potential discipline of Plaintiffs’ counsel."

The full link is here:
 
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Meoima

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President Trump’s extraordinary, wheedling telephone call to state officials in Georgia seeking to overturn the election results there has shaken many Europeans — not so much for what it reveals about Mr. Trump himself, but for what it may portend for the health of American democracy.

With just 16 days left in his presidency, Mr. Trump’s capacity to shock the world with his epic self-centeredness and disregard for democratic and ethical norms is vanishing. The president has revealed himself many times before this latest episode, when he badgered and threatened Georgia officials to “find” him the votes needed to flip the state.
Trump's Georgia Phone Call Leaves Allies Fearful for American Democracy - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
 

canbelto

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Ok for whatever reason the biggest talking point I see among MAGA's is that there is "no way" a 74 million vote count could have been surpassed.

Why couldn't it? The U.S. has 330 million people. 74 million is less than 1/4 of the population. Why couldn't it have possibly been surpassed?
 

sk9tingfan

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3,536
Ok for whatever reason the biggest talking point I see among MAGA's is that there is "no way" a 74 million vote count could have been surpassed.

Why couldn't it? The U.S. has 330 million people. 74 million is less than 1/4 of the population. Why couldn't it have possibly been surpassed?
Reuters as of 1/1/21, estimated that there were between 206 MM eligible voters. On the other hand," According to the U.S. Election Project, a nonpartisan website run by Michael McDonald of the University of Florida www.electproject.org/2020g , there were around 239,247,182 people that were eligible to vote in 2020, based on age, citizenship, and not considering felons (according to state law)."

Based on that, the estimated turnout was 66.7%, thereby providing ample room for an increased number of people voting. What you need to remember is the number of people who are under the age of 18, and/or do not meet state requirements for voting.
 

Meoima

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4,710
So are you arguing that all 74 million people who voted Trump are solely voting for an authoritarian? Because the comment that started this was grouping all of them together and assuming they are ready to start a civil war. Or do you get that sometimes people prioritize what's most important to them and it might not line up with what you want? Or do you understand that some people hardly follow politics but show up to the polls every four years? Some people never watch the news and don't have social media, so their only source of info is either from friends or nothing at all. I was torn apart by a few posters for watching the Trump town hall (remember that one?) because people would rather prefer to come here and bitch about everything he does by reading it in an article or something after the fact.

There's a lot of extreme doom and gloom comments constantly on this board. I guarantee you if a Republican came along and actually had a plan that catered more to specific communities (whether that be African Americans, LGBTQ, whatever), there would be quite a few people that see one or two articles pointing it out and it would be enough to jump ship because that ONE issue is most important to them. That's just how it goes, and it's not going to change. There are also Republicans that will argue until they are blue in the face that Biden is a Communist and/or Socialist. Doesn't mean it's right because they think that.

You know how we hear that small-town person going around telling everyone 'NO ONE voted for Biden. I don't know a single person!!' And then it's because they have 3 friends they actually talk to and about 50 Facebook friends total? Doesn't mean their world is real. Those of you trying to clump all Republicans together because of your perceived notions of what they think or what they are doing are no different.
I don't know. Really. My uncle lives in Chicago and he voted for Trump and the GOP. He is one of the nicest people I know in the family.
I do believe there are many people who voted for Trump simply because they lacked information or it simply means they just voted for the GOP due to their political and religious beliefs.
There are many GOP voters who know Trump is horrible but they still hope that GOP's policies would be better for the country in general.
In my humble opinion, it kind of like Alien vs The Predators. I am sure there are many people in my country would rather "prefer" if China wins the US in the long term when it comes to the economy. And not because they "like" CCP or so, the truth is dislike CCP and their policies a lot but they dislike the US even more.
My guess is that many GOP voters dislike Trump but would rather see their party win, they just do not feel safe with DNC's policies (if they were informed enough though). Also, the lack of trust in the mainstream media plays a huge part as well. In general, it seems more like voting for the party than voting for the person.
 

Dobre

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How many anti-trump letters have we had, signed by former somebodies? What good did they do? The more he gets away with, the more he does.
I think they helped keep Trump from sending troops into Portland, for one. Cutting off what happened at Lafayette Square. It's not about what Trump is willing to do. It's about what the Defense Department is willing to do under his orders.
I'm quite happy if the GOP splits. Neither remnant will have enough votes for a national election. We've seen what happens with 3rd parties before.
New parties have formed & succeeded before also. As both current parties can attest.

It is the state of having 3 parties that seems to be a temporary state within our system. Not the ability to form a new party.

I think moderate Republicans should start a new party & name it the Conservative Party. Is that not allowed? It would be easy for them to make an argument for why Trump's followers are not "conservative."
 
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Aussie Willy

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ballettmaus

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I'm quite happy if the GOP splits. Neither remnant will have enough votes for a national election. We've seen what happens with 3rd parties before.
If that happens, the US will be a one-party country and that isn't good either.
I can't see the GOP fracturing for that very reason, though. Anything other than holding on puts them out of power. Maybe they would have a chance if the GOP fractured and the Democrats fractured as well and no one gets over 270 anymore. But I don't believe that the GOP extremists who are so obsessed with power who would be the ones who would have a chance then, I think it would be more moderate Republicans.

Unfortunately Republicans are probably going to be able to unite around using the false claims made about the 2020 election to pass laws to restrict voting, especially mail in voting.
Which defeats the argument the MSM likes to make that they're simply afraid of Trump. I've been skeptical of that for a while; some may be but people like Romney are still doing fine. It sounds like they're more opportunisitic than afraid.

So are you arguing that all 74 million people who voted Trump are solely voting for an authoritarian?
No, I'm saying they're voting Republican regardless of whether it's an authoritarian. Some because they follow said authoritarian like a cult leader, some because they've always voted Republican, some because they're putting issues like abortion or gun rights above all else, some probably for other reasons, like seeing only what they want to see because they agree with the candidate on a handful of other issues and some because they simply agree with the candidate entirely.


Some people never watch the news and don't have social media, so their only source of info is either from friends or nothing at all.
Which is another subject altogether ;)

I was torn apart by a few posters for watching the Trump town hall (remember that one?) because people would rather prefer to come here and bitch about everything he does by reading it in an article or something after the fact.
No, that was not the reason but I don't think there's any use in rehashing that point.


This isn't just semantics. Conservative is acceptable to a lot of people. Extremists need to be labeled what they are.
That's one of the things I've been thinking of when I was complaining about the MSM; conservative is normalizing and the MSM has done it for far too long and some still do. I suspect it's because they're so focused on being fair to both sides and afraid to come across as biased if they use the term "extremists" even if it would simply be the truth.

It's also funny how none of them are challenging the election results in races where the Republicans won :saint:
They probably believe that the down ballot races were counted correctly but then votes were flipped for President or something. And I'm sure they see their gains/wins as proof that the presidential race was counted incorrectly. (Strangely enough, they don't seem to entertain the idea that it can also be proof that the down ballot races weren't counted correctly :p )
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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I mean facts are facts. Drop boxes aren’t in Georgia law at all
Yes, facts are facts and the fact is that the lawsuit in GA was dismissed.
New parties have formed & succeeded before also. As both current parties can attest.
But not in anyone's lifetime. Unless there are people alive over 160 years ago who are still alive today.

Our system of government settled down a lot since the late 1800. It would be a major big deal for the GOP to split and a new party to form.
 

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