2020 U.S. Presidential Election

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,338
I'm starting a new thread with a title broad enough to encompass topics that don't fit very well into any of the open threads.

This piece on the Politico website caught my attention:


Earlier this month, while speaking via Zoom to a promising group of politically inclined high school students, I was met with an abrupt line of inquiry. “I’m sorry, but I still don’t understand,” said one young man, his pitch a blend of curiosity and exasperation. “What do Republicans believe? What does it mean to be a Republican?”
I decided to call Frank Luntz. Perhaps no person alive has spent more time polling Republican voters and counseling Republican politicians than Luntz, the 58-year-old focus group guru. His research on policy and messaging has informed a generation of GOP lawmakers. His ability to translate between D.C. and the provinces—connecting the concerns of everyday people to their representatives in power—has been unsurpassed. If anyone had an answer, it would be Luntz.

“You know I don’t have a history of dodging questions. But I don’t know how to answer that. There is no consistent philosophy,” Luntz responded. “You can’t say it’s about making America great again at a time of [you-know-what] and economic distress and social unrest. It’s just not credible.”

Luntz thought for a moment. “I think it’s about promoting—” he stopped suddenly. “But I can’t, I don’t—” he took a pause. “That’s the best I can do.”

When I pressed, Luntz sounded as exasperated as the student whose question I was relaying. “Look, I’m the one guy who’s going to give you a straight answer. I don’t give a shit—I had a stroke in January, so there’s nothing anyone can do to me to make my life suck,” he said. “I’ve tried to give you an answer and I can’t do it. You can ask it any different way. But I don’t know the answer. For the first time in my life, I don’t know the answer.”
🤷‍♂️

It's difficult for a party to persuade the undecided if it has nothing to say.
 
Last edited:

SpeedySucks

Well-Known Member
Messages
456
I'm starting a new thread with a title broad enough to encompass topics that don't fit very well into any of the open threads.

This piece on the Politico website caught my attention:





🤷‍♂️

It's difficult for a party to persuade the undecided if it has nothing to say.
I read that article this morning and thought it totally missed the mark. It's very clear what Republicans stand for these days (even non-Trump Republicans) - maintaining white male supremacy. I don't know whether Tim Alberta and the people he interviewed were just blind to this or whether they're intentionally ignoring it, but it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about what Republicans stand for without mentioning the overarching goal of keeping white men on top of society.

Even before Trump, virtually every Republican policy position was aimed at white male supremacy:
  • Tax cuts for the wealthy - most wealthy are white men
  • Restrictions on abortion - allows men to maintain control over women's bodies
  • Limits on immigration - slows down the pace at which whites become majority minority
  • Blocking the expansion of healthcare - ensures that poor Black and brown people, as well as many white women, don't have the opportunity to get ahead
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Trump has been much more overt about the extent to which Republican policies are aimed at white male supremacy, but the Republican agenda has been aimed at this for over 50 years now. Appealing to white supremacy has largely worked for the past half-century, but we've now reached the point where there is far less than 50% support for this agenda - thus we see the extreme suppression efforts of today's Republican Party aimed at keeping this shrinking minority in power.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,393
I posted in the other thread about the latest slate of Republicans supporting Biden. Here's Jeff Flake on why he'll be voting for a Democrat for the first time:
During the 2016 election, given what I had already seen during the campaign, I knew I could not vote for the President. Like many of my colleagues, I chose to vote for a third-party candidate. Today, given what we have experienced over the past four years, it is not enough to just to register our disapproval of the President. We need to elect someone else in his place, someone who will stop the chaos and reverse the damage.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
32,704
A related piece:

Why There are so Few Moderate Republicans Left:


The piece talks about many self-proclaimed moderate Republicans don’t run for Congress anymore because they don’t see themselves as having a place in the party.

Further:

He is trailing Joe Biden in the national polls as well as in several key swing states. And FiveThirtyEight’s presidential forecast currently says Biden — not Trump — is favored to win the election. In fact, circumstances seem so dire for the GOP that election handicappers like the Cook Political Report think the Democrats — once underdogs — are slightly favored to take back the GOP-controlled Senate, too.
If the Dems do end up winning the presidency and both houses of Congress, will we still have to hear cliches about a “silent majority” supporting Trump, and all that other crap. For a party that did not win the popular vote and lost the House in the midterms, they still act like they have a hold on the majority of Americans when they don’t even have a plurality.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,668
The piece talks about many self-proclaimed moderate Republicans don’t run for Congress anymore because they don’t see themselves as having a place in the party.
If only there were a way to get them to form their own party and more importantly, get people to vote for them. Same with the more moderate and more left wing of the Democrats. If that were to happen, voters would probably grow tired of the House choosing the President and that might build enough public pressure to change the Constitution and get rid of the EC. Wishful thinking, I know. But I really don't see it happening other than through public pressure.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,508
I'm starting a new thread with a title broad enough to encompass topics that don't fit very well into any of the open threads.

This piece on the Politico website caught my attention:







🤷‍♂️

It's difficult for a party to persuade the undecided if it has nothing to say.
The republicans are being very clear. They support Biden because trump violates all their principles

The fundamentals are the republican establishment and Democratic Party are totally behind Biden and working for Biden. It’s both parties against the trump supporters. Biden has a totally united Democratic Party and most of the major republicans in America. Bush’s, Romney‘s,McCain‘s, All the republicans in the media and hundreds and thousands of others support Biden and that includes Paul Ryan and John Boehner. This is almost totally unbeatable. How can both parties support Biden and him lose?
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
63,080

If you want to understand the GOP policy of hate, this new book will tell. I listened to the author's interview on NPR and it was chilling.
 

DORISPULASKI

Watching submarine races
Messages
11,867
Lincoln Women- The Lincoln Project is doing more than create ads. They appear to be organizing anti Trump sentiment among evangelical women.

Jerushah Duford is an evangelical author, speaker and member of Lincoln Women, a coalition of women in the Lincoln Project. Follow her on Twitter: @jerushahruth
Billy Graham's granddaughter Jessica Duford has written a thorough explanation of why evangelical women should not support Trump. It was published by USAToday, so it has been widely circulated.

 
Last edited:

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,786
Biden to troll Trump with 2-minute ad set to run during renomination speech

Here is the direct link to the ad:):
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
56,517
This x a million trillion billion:

After Vice President Mike Pence delivered a dark speech in which he warned people would “not be safe in Joe Biden’s America,” the Democratic nominee has now responded with a question: “Did Mike Pence forget Donald Trump is president?” In a new statement, Biden reminded Pence that the violence and turmoil he described in his convention speech last night is unfolding with Trump as president.

“These are not images from some imagined ‘Joe Biden’s America’ in the future,” Biden said in the statement. “These are images from Donald Trump’s America today.
(quoted from the Guardian with bolding added by me!)
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
14,662
These are images from states and cities largely controlled by Democratic governors and mayors. They can go to hell right alongside Trump.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,837

They are saying that the protests and riots may end up being a win for Trump.
 

Toshi_Berra

Member
Messages
81
These are images from states and cities largely controlled by Democratic governors and mayors. They can go to hell right alongside Trump.
Such a shocker right? ;) But don't expect the coddled, over-privileged white liberal women on here to care! Self-reflection and personal responsibility just isn't in their DNA. But maybe they'll start "caring" if you get a handsome male TV journalist from some sham network to start talking about it? ;)
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,837
Such a shocker right? ;) But don't expect the coddled, over-privileged white liberal women on here to care! Self-reflection and personal responsibility just isn't in their DNA. But maybe they'll start "caring" if you get a handsome male TV journalist from some sham network to start talking about it? ;)
How exactly is looting helping?
 

Toshi_Berra

Member
Messages
81
How exactly is looting helping?
Preaching to the choir here. :confused: Looting most certainly undermines everything about the "progressive" movement. But the effects are revealing--seeing how indifferent most liberal posters are to the violence and property destruction really tells you how irrelevant and fundamentally flawed their ideology is. But they will self-delude themselves anyway!

BTW, have you seen the cringe in the police threads? Every white person there literally believes they are the savior of the black community...nevermind the fact that THEIR party has been raping black communities for decade after decade after decade............
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
56,517
Republicans cast election as crusade against violent disorder--NY Times headline this morning.

Taking that at face value for a moment, take a look back at the summer of 2016, the year Trump ran and said only he could save us from "American carnage." There were shootings of unarmed black men followed by protests. Then there were also at least two incidents of shootings of police officers by Black men who cited the killing of unarmed Black people as their motivation. I'm going from memory here but one was in Texas iirc while protests of police shootings were going on.

Three and a half years of Trump later we have shootings of unarmed Black men by police followed by protests, in which some people burn, loot, and vandalize. Trump's promised response to the violence that erupted during protests was demonstrated in Portland when he sent in Federal agents. The confrontation and violence escalated until the Federal agents were removed. Now we have armed vigilantes patrolling protests ending in the deaths of two people and injuring of a third.

People don't support Trump because he is going to end "violent disorder" within the context of our diverse, democratic society; they support Trump because they think there will be violent disorder until we make America white again, or at least cleanse people of color from "our" white neighborhoods. Trump has done nothing effective to address the issues that have led to the protests which Republicans are portraying as chaos in our "Democrat run cities." Because that is not what he is there for, that is not what Stephen Miller is advising him about, that is not what his supporters want him to do. What they want is much more fundamental and more disorder and more violence on all sides is an instrument they can use to try impose their reactionary vision of white America.
 
Last edited:

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,837
Blue Ridge I know a lot of Trump voters some who are minorities. There issue isn’t America’s changing color.

A lot of people were angry about Floyd and agree changed must be made.


They want order in the streets. They want to be able to walk in their neighborhoods. Reality to isn’t that it’s not the suburbs that are being hit it’s minority communities. Talks like defund the police are doing nothing.

Eventually order is going to have to happen and the looting and destruction isn’t helping anything

Middle America wants the economy strong their 401ks strong and the streets safe and they will vote for the people who get them that.

Trump isn’t frankly crafting a bad like by pointing out that he supports criminal justice reform while quiet on the streets

And sitting there analyzing people and making assumptions and telling them they are racist does nothing to help. Racism is an issue in this country but amazes me that people think Trumps greatest appeal is racism.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,672
I don't think there is anyone who is not certain who they will vote for in November. Or if they will vote.

Louis and Becca know who they will vote for. They pretend to be undecided. They are like many "undecided". They like to pretend there are a series of issues they want to know more about. They've told us.

Most declared undecided voters are decided. I think its time to just get the vote done.

I tired of the pretending. We either get a dictator or democracy. It just time to quit pretending.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
Messages
56,517
I don't think there is anyone who is not certain who they will vote for in November. Or if they will vote.

Louis and Becca know who they will vote for. They pretend to be undecided. They are like many "undecided". They like to pretend there are a series of issues they want to know more about. They've told us.

Most declared undecided voters are decided. I think its time to just get the vote done.

I tired of the pretending. We either get a dictator or democracy. It just time to quit pretending.
my head explodes at the idea that anyone needs more information before they decide.

I can only hope those who are leaning toward Trump but are afraid to say they want to vote for him will think about why they don't want to say so and change their minds.

A vote for Biden is not a commitment to Biden's politics, its a vote to give us a chance to restore our processes and institutions so we can continue to have a democracy where a wide variety of views contend for support and implementation.
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,393
And sitting there analyzing people and making assumptions and telling them they are racist does nothing to help. Racism is an issue in this country but amazes me that people think Trumps greatest appeal is racism.
A large part of the appeal is that he validates people's grievances, whether warranted (there are those who were struggling in 2016) or not (racist crap). Even then, Trump was racist, sexist, stupid, cruel, and corrupt; people were simply willing to overlook it - I think John Scalzi wrote about it well in this post:
Now it's even clearer, and it's also obvious that Trump does not have his country's best interests at heart.

BTW, looking at those so-called law and order voters... if Trump can't deliver "order in the streets" because of Democratic governors and mayors, how is he going to deliver it if elected to a second term?

Louis and Becca know who they will vote for. They pretend to be undecided. They are like many "undecided". They like to pretend there are a series of issues they want to know more about. They've told us.
Aren't they both planning to vote third party? @becca?
 

jenny12

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,662
Racism is an issue in this country but amazes me that people think Trumps greatest appeal is racism.
Racism is literally Trump’s greatest appeal. He built his entrance into politics challenging President Obama’s nationality and keeping immigrants out. He did that because he knew that there is a large enough white population in the country who feel threatened by what they see as losing their power. Trump voters only care about order in the sense of controlling minorities.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,837
Racism is literally Trump’s greatest appeal. He built his entrance into politics challenging President Obama’s nationality and keeping immigrants out. He did that because he knew that there is a large enough white population in the country who feel threatened by what they see as losing their power. Trump voters only care about order in the sense of controlling minorities.
Okay. Once again I know a lot of people who voted for Trump not why they did it. Heck I know a lot of minorities who voted for them.

There are people who are undecided in this country some may have voted for Trump last time.

Telling them they only vote for Trump because they are racist... isn’t going to win their votes. Are they people who couldn’t pick last time that they are really a vote for Trump.

Plus there is the tendency on the left to treat Minorities who don’t tow the line pretty poorly. See the treatment of Nikki Haley.
 

once_upon

Voter
Messages
15,672
Aren't they both planning to vote third party? @becca?
Third party vote or choosing not to vote is being self righteous and gives the person who does this the feeling that they can't be blamed for the current political situation.

I've heard self righteous people saying there was not anyone they could vote for, they wrote in Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck since I began to understand the political process probably around 10.

Like it or not, in the US you have two choices. Any 3rd party vote or non vote is a vote for the winner.

Quit the damn pretending. JUST QUIT PRETENDING
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,837
Third party vote or choosing not to vote is being self righteous and gives the person who does this the feeling that they can't be blamed for the current political situation.

I've heard self righteous people saying there was not anyone they could vote for, they wrote in Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck since I began to understand the political process probably around 10.

Like it or not, in the US you have two choices. Any 3rd party vote or non vote is a vote for the winner.

Quit the damn pretending. JUST QUIT PRETENDING
I had my reasons for Voting third party last time. And no regrets about it. I am not doing it this time.

It’s completely legitimate to decide you don’t want to make a choice.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 22, Guests: 15)

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information