2020 OG Gymnastics Thread: Week 2 Event Finals

millyskate

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I found it more exciting to have gymnasts actually competing for gold, wish NBC had shown more of it. I still haven't seen all of it because they buried some of the events in the day sessions, especially mens' - couldn't find FX until I FF'd through my daytime recording.

Happy list:
ROC teams gold and other medals
Suni!
Rebeca
Mai
China pulling out medals on BB
Nina
Mykayla persevering (hopefully no more sniping from her or her team)
Jade's FX
Simone pulling out an individual bronze on BB
Daiki
Artur's beautiful gymnastics
GB ladies bronze
Vanessa getting a medal at age 30

Sad list:
Larisa not being able to do beam final
Simone
Jade's vault disaster
Nikita not earning individual gold somewhere
Brody making a mistake that cost him a medal
Gymnastics is so hard that no-one can look flawless anymore, stuck landings not necessary
NBC coverage. Did I not see a single Canadian? I am not recalling. Need to watch on Peacock or NBC app replay.
4 person team leaves no room for specialists/injury(although I am not sad about how the medals got spread around this year).
FIG needs to take safety into account and allow one touch warm ups etc. again.
This is a good list.
I'm really happy for Ferrari, Murakami, and Andrade and thought the EFs displayed a great variety.
No-touch warm-up is awful and needs to go.
Under 10.0 I was not opposed to the open-ended code but seeing what I looks like in practice, I do miss 10.0 quite a lot! Or maybe I miss compulsories even more.

Will look forward to worlds next year in my home town.
 
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Karen-W

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I'm not sure how the USOPC even deals with/addresses the cesspool of shit that is USAG. Frankly, I'd be pissed if I were in their shoes that the continued mishandling/mistreatment of the USAG athletes resulted in the potential loss of at least 1 gold medal and 2-3 other metals in WAG this year, all because of the supposed "adults in the room".
 

becca

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I just read a transcript of an interview Simone gave last night on NBC and she states that she was fine with the pressure of being the face of the games; yes it was a lot but she could deal with that, but not with being told she was the glue of the team because that's not how she saw herself. Hence the posts about carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders before team final maybe?

You can see how this all could have exploded after prelims with the extreme stress USAG were placing on her - an organisation which she freely admits still triggers her and she feels uncomfortable representing - manifesting itself in the twisties. And if you're Tom Forster, you can't just keep telling yourself that if anything bad happens to not worry because, Simone. She had been inconsistent all year, there was no evidence she was suddenly going to be the rock she had been previously, plus we know she had been injured hence the foot taping, then the fall and subsequent tears at Trials. All signs that all was not well so don't press the buttons.

Forster has just handled this so badly right from the get go. Simone is very articulate but to expect her to fully explain why she had to withdraw after the TF was a stretch. So the media runs with the mental health story and people who don't know the facts decide she's a quitter and can't cope. USAG does NOTHING to defend her, just releases daily updates to say she's continuing to focus on her mental health and they support her, fanning the flames of the outraged MAGA right and not setting the record straight leaving Simone to try and get the truth out there by liking certain posts, instagram vids of her falling and answering fan questions. Thankfully the media got interested and the facts started to get out there but the damage is done. There will always be a section of sports fans who see her as a quitter and a failure which is so unfair to her. But @clairecloutier I agree that her actions and impact here will gain her more popularity in the long run.
Well it’s a team event. Simone was obviously not perfect in qualifications. But she was still first in the AA and made all four event finals.

When your star gymnast gives you that and your team is still down by over a point maybe your team just doesn’t deserve to win.
 

MsZem

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This observation from the interview with Rachael Denhollander that I linked to yesterday really struck me. It's the interviewer, Emma Green, and not Denhollander (though her response is also worth reading).

Simone Biles said this spring that one of the reasons she wanted to keep competing was because she felt like if a survivor wasn’t present, USAG would just brush aside everything that’s happened and try to pretend like it hadn’t happened. That’s an incredible burden for a single person to take on. It’s saying: “I feel a responsibility to remain visible as a living symbol of abuse that’s been done to me and my fellow athletes.”
I can't even imagine.

This may have been posted already, but in case it hasn't - a good piece from SI:
 

floskate

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Well it’s a team event. Simone was obviously not perfect in qualifications. But she was still first in the AA and made all four event finals.

When your star gymnast gives you that and your team is still down by over a point maybe your team just doesn’t deserve to win.
That's not the issue. That was Tom's oversight regarding the quality of Russia but that's not it. It's that Simone, their star gymnast gave them all that and yet despite that she was clearly given the message via panic from Tom/USAG and Tim Daggett via NBC, that it wasn't good enough. Then there's perhaps the realisation that despite all she had wanted for her (perhaps) final Olympics, she was still having to do it for everyone else. USAG, Tom, NBC, her teammates..... they were all looking to her to deliver a medal for them.
 

canbelto

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I'm not sure how the USOPC even deals with/addresses the cesspool of shit that is USAG. Frankly, I'd be pissed if I were in their shoes that the continued mishandling/mistreatment of the USAG athletes resulted in the potential loss of at least 1 gold medal and 2-3 other metals in WAG this year, all because of the supposed "adults in the room".

You can't really clean up an organization if everyone involved is some degrees of awful ...
 

Frau Muller

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Russia’s Artistic gymnasts triumphant return home! Channel One report on the Women’s and Men’s Golden Teams arrival at airport in Moscow.
Big crowd at airport.
 

Frau Muller

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kwanfan1818

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You don't have to be Jewish to be an Israeli citizen.

Marriage is controlled by the (Orthodox) rabbinate in Israel, so they make the rules.

I also don't think that there was necessarily someone available who could fill that role, but it did feel like a gap.
I agree, and the original plan for mitigating it, IIRC, was that Raisman would be on hand to support her live.

USAG, Tom, NBC, her teammates..... they were all looking to her to deliver a medal for them.
I'm not sure sure her teammates were looking to her to deliver a medal for them. Lee was specifically vocal about how this wasn't the case, and she sounded insulted by the notion.
 
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floskate

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I'm not sure sure her teammates were looking to her to deliver a medal for them. Lee was specifically vocal about how this wasn't the case, and she sounded insulted by the notion.
That's true and bad wording on my part. But it doesn't mean Simone didn't feel that pressure. If the message is, the team is nothing without you and you need to deliver - then you can see why she might feel that responsibility. What Simone did in the team final absolutely empowered them to step up and deliver under pressure they never expected to have to face. They all were amazing!
 

MsZem

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Idgi. If he can't marry in Israel why can he be an Israeli citizen?
Israel doesn't have civil marriage. Religious only, whether Jewish, Muslim, Druze or Christian. And not Reform/Conservative Jewish, either.

Artem Dolgopyat's family was eligible to come to Israel because his father is Jewish, and that's good enough for the law of return. I believe Artem considers himself Jewish, but in terms of Jewish law he is not. I don't know what his religious status is or that of his fiancée, but if they're not of the same religion, it's currently not possible to marry in Israel. They'd have to do it abroad.

You can probably guess what my opinion on that is.

He seems embarrassed that it came up, but good for his mother for trying to get something done given the opportunity.
 

kwanfan1818

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That's true and bad wording on my part. But it doesn't mean Simone didn't feel that pressure. If the message is, the team is nothing without you and you need to deliver - then you can see why she might feel that responsibility. What Simone did in the team final absolutely empowered them to step up and deliver under pressure they never expected to have to face. They all were amazing!
I totally agree that this was the message from all of the governing bodies and mouthpieces and that the team should be lauded for stepping up, performing as they did, and earning the silver medal. Especially since, with that message and the extra practice, that they were being told that they were not worthy. That alone would have made me snap were I any of them.
 

becca

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That's not the issue. That was Tom's oversight regarding the quality of Russia but that's not it. It's that Simone, their star gymnast gave them all that and yet despite that she was clearly given the message via panic from Tom/USAG and Tim Daggett via NBC, that it wasn't good enough. Then there's perhaps the realisation that despite all she had wanted for her (perhaps) final Olympics, she was still having to do it for everyone else. USAG, Tom, NBC, her teammates..... they were all looking to her to deliver a medal for them.
Not a medal gold the US was good enough to win a medal without Simone. But they expected Simone to bring the gold.

Well that’s what I was kind of saying. That what Simone did should have been enough. I mean switch Simone and Angelica Russia comes out even better. The issue is wasn’t Simones mistakes. It was the team surrounding both. US was counting on 3 huge scores from Simone and a good score and two huge scores from Suni. (6 scores)
But after that there was a drop off and that was a problem considering it’s six more routines to be scored

I don’t think Tom could have necessarily picked a better team but he could have recognized how strong Russia was and prepared his team. He also could have prepared media expectations.

Heck maybe that would have put more expectations pressure on Russia.

Told his team to do their best and if there best was silver that’s okay because they were facing a great team this year.

And their absolutely should have been no freaking out a day before team finals. It should have been okay
 

canbelto

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It's a competition, not a coronation. USAG seems to have thought it was a coronation.

Also looking back, the main team should have been Simone (no way to anticipate what happened), Suni, Jade and MyKayla.
 

floskate

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It's a competition, not a coronation. USAG seems to have thought it was a coronation.

Also looking back, the main team should have been Simone (no way to anticipate what happened), Suni, Jade and MyKayla.
Jade and Myk on the team leave a massive hole on bars (Myk) and beam (Jade/Myk). Jade scored a 14+ for the first time on bars during team finals but then in AA showed how inconsistent she is at connecting. Would the addition of two cheng/amanars for the VT rotation and Jade on FX make up for that risk?
 

kwanfan1818

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That SI article was quite sympathetic, except for this:

Her score had already knocked the team out of contention for a gold medal, but without her, it held on for silver.

FFS, the cumulative TEAM score was not higher than Russia's, and the cumulative TEAM score earned silver.
 

canbelto

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ring team finals but then in AA showed how inconsistent she is at connecting. Would the addition of two cheng/amanars for the VT rotatio

Chengs are 6.0 which is an automatic +1.2 if you got Myk and Jade's Chengs. Both of them are pretty consistent on it too.
 

becca

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That SI article was quite sympathetic, except for this:



FFS, the cumulative TEAM score was not higher than Russia's, and the cumulative TEAM score earned silver.
Simone wasn’t the only member of Team USA who had an issue.

Russia was not perfect themselves.

I don’t think Suni, Simone, Jade and McKayla was the best team. Or makes sense. Jordans vault for example can get up to a 14.8 and Skinners vault is what best 15.01?

I think you take Jade because she is world class on two events vault and floor then you take another girl who is good in beam and bars. I don’t think the US really had that girl.

Reality is with Any team you don’t know because look at how Jade handled vault finals (she did get it together)

One thing I do agree with Tom that rank order does matter a bit you want someone who performs well under pressure.

Say what you will about Grace she is pretty steady competitor. I wouldn’t have picked Wong in her stead because Wong was making all kinds of errors.

I did not get why people were complaining about Tom not picking a girl who fell Riley on her one specialist event! He actually made the right choice with Skinner 😂
 
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skatfan

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Simone wasn’t the only member of Team USA who had an issue.

Russia was not perfect themselves.

I don’t think Suni, Simone, Jade and McKayla was the best team. Or makes sense. Jordans vault for example can get up to a 14.8 and Skinners vault is what best 15.01?

I think you take Jade because she is world class on two events vault and floor then you take another girl who is good in beam and bars. I don’t think the US really had that girl.

Reality is with Any team you don’t know because look at how Jade handled vault finals (she did get it together)

One thing I do agree with Tom that rank order does matter a bit you want someone who performs well under pressure.
did he say that? I thought it was just it’s easier to go by rank order and what’s a few tenths because we have the gold sewn up.

Say what you will about Grace she is pretty steady competitor. I wouldn’t have picked Wong in her stead because Wong was making all kinds of errors.


I did not get why people were complaining about Tom not picking a girl who fell Riley on her one specialist event! He actually made the right choice with Skinner 😂
Huh? Skinner for vault was not a higher probability for a Medal on vault because Jade and Simone would make the EF final and not her. Riley on bars was a good shot. Skinner only made the final when Simone dropped out.

Tom proved he had no strategy - hence the panic before team final. The coaches were doing all the work as far as I can tell. Notice they haven’t let him talk AT ALL for a week now. But unless USAG can find someone else to take the job he may keep it if he wants it.
 

Dobre

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Finally watched Day 3 of the Event Finals (waited for it to be up online so that I could watch everything).

Conclusion after watching Day 3:

Well . . . Day 2 of event finals was great;).


Still adore that gold medal beam set, but it was so extraordinary in the qualifying round, I had to go back & rewatch that version twice after the beam final was over.
 

becca

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In addition, that preliminary AA from Simone scored higher than the winning score in the individual AA.
True but we don’t know how folks would have been if Simone was there or that Simone wouldn’t make mistakes.

Still Simone was enough as is.
 

Allskate

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Well it’s a team event. Simone was obviously not perfect in qualifications. But she was still first in the AA and made all four event finals.

When your star gymnast gives you that and your team is still down by over a point maybe your team just doesn’t deserve to win.

Just because your team is down by a point in the prelims, they may still deserve to win in the finals, and it is neither necessary nor productive to freak out and put more pressure and demands on them. And it certainly isn't nice or productive to blame Simone not only for her own performance for the performance of other team members, which is what Simone seemed to indicate happened.

According to Simone, she did not think that it was a big deal that they were behind by a point until other people told her it was and got mad at her. From what Simone said, she was blamed not only for her own mistakes but for the mistakes that her teammates made. She had reason not to freak out. Jordan's performance in prelims seemed to be an aberration. Suni did not do her full difficulty on bars. I would not be surprised if some of the gymnasts deliberately decided not to have perfect landings or connections in prelims because it wasn't worth the risk and they just wanted to qualify.

Forster has just handled this so badly right from the get go. Simone is very articulate but to expect her to fully explain why she had to withdraw after the TF was a stretch. So the media runs with the mental health story and people who don't know the facts decide she's a quitter and can't cope. USAG does NOTHING to defend her, just releases daily updates to say she's continuing to focus on her mental health and they support her, fanning the flames of the outraged MAGA right and not setting the record straight leaving Simone to try and get the truth out there by liking certain posts, instagram vids of her falling and answering fan questions. Thankfully the media got interested and the facts started to get out there but the damage is done. There will always be a section of sports fans who see her as a quitter and a failure which is so unfair to her.
ITA. My little niece asked me if Simone quit. By the time I finished explaining the facts to her, she sarcastically said, "So Simone was selfish because she didn't want to risk breaking her neck when she couldn't perform well." It really wasn't that hard to get her to understand, and she's in elementary school. One of my co-workers who was raving about Simone last month, didn't even watch the rest of the gymnastics after Simone withdrew from the team competition and I would guess that she still thinks that Simone just quit. USAG and NBC did a crap job explaining the real situation. Even last night, they didn't clearly explain what had happened.

Also looking back, the main team should have been Simone (no way to anticipate what happened), Suni, Jade and MyKayla.
Jade did not do well overall on the first day of Olympic Trials and didn't do bars and beam on the second day. With a four person team and 3/3 and with Jade still not 100% after her injury, that would have been risky. Jordan did well at Nationals and Trials. Jordan was a sensible choice over Jade at the time of the decision, especially since Jade still was going to be able to compete and have a shot at a medal on vault and floor and had little chance of medaling in the AA. And I would not have wanted Jade to take Simone's place on bars and beam during team finals. I'm glad it worked out well for Jade on floor.
 

becca

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Just because your team is down by a point in the prelims, they may still deserve to win in the finals, and it is neither necessary nor productive to freak out and put more pressure and demands on them. And it certainly isn't nice or productive to blame Simone not only for her own performance for the performance of other team members, which is what Simone seemed to indicate happened.

According to Simone, she did not think that it was a big deal that they were behind by a point until other people told her it was and got mad at her. From what Simone said, she was blamed not only for her own mistakes but for the mistakes that her teammates made. She had reason not to freak out. Jordan's performance in prelims seemed to be an aberration. Suni did not do her full difficulty on bars. I would not be surprised if some of the gymnasts deliberately decided not to have perfect landings or connections in prelims because it wasn't worth the risk and they just wanted to qualify.


ITA. My little niece asked me if Simone quit. By the time I finished explaining the facts to her, she sarcastically said, "So Simone was selfish because she didn't want to risk breaking her neck when she couldn't perform well." It really wasn't that hard to get her to understand, and she's in elementary school. One of my co-workers who was raving about Simone last month, didn't even watch the rest of the gymnastics after Simone withdrew from the team competition and I would guess that she still thinks that Simone just quit. USAG and NBC did a crap job explaining the real situation. Even last night, they didn't clearly explain what had happened.


Jade did not do well overall on the first day of Olympic Trials and didn't do bars and beam on the second day. With a four person team and 3/3 and with Jade still not 100% after her injury, that would have been risky. Jordan did well at Nationals and Trials. Jordan was a sensible choice over Jade at the time of the decision, especially since Jade still was going to be able to compete and have a shot at a medal on vault and floor and had little chance of medaling in the AA. And I would not have wanted Jade to take Simone's place on bars and beam during team finals. I'm glad it worked out well for Jade on floor.
Well I am not saying that they for sure don’t deserve to win. That’s determined in finals.

But what I was saying is that Simone with mistakes still put up very good numbers. And if those numbers weren’t enough than maybe the team just didn’t deserve it.

Because it Is a team event and it wasn’t Simones responsibility to single handlely win it all. And that is not fair to ask of anyone.

I mean what was basically saying is you must go 60 plus that’s ridiculous.

And then she looks at the other team and Angelica is really only expected to go 57 plus.

Sometimes your star player will go out and be otherworldly but to expect it.

And no she wasn’t responsible for The other girls mistakes.

I am shocked at the panicking to. I mean they absolutely could have won. What was yelling at the girls and Simone going to do at that point seriously.
 

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