2020 OG Gymnastics Thread: The Takedown In Tokyo

FiveRinger

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I’ll come back with more thoughts later. I haven’t seen Sessions 3-5. But in response to Simone being injured....

I think that she had the over-rotations on purpose. If she’s having issues with her ankles, she’s trying not to land short to avoid being more hurt. It is painful when you land short.
 

mjb52

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I read a google translated article with Melnikova saying music for the Olympics required you to have permission from the copyright holder and she had to change her music at the last minute for that reason. Hard to understand the nuances of a super complicated topic through a brief google translated article but that may be part of what's going on. The confusing part was that she made it sound like they replaced it with basically the first thing they found online - I wonder if they used one of those "stock music" type sites.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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I don't think Tom Forester is good at his job and I think he's old school connected with all the rotten USA - G people who role their eyes when gymnasts speak up.

That said, the + 1 was between Skinner and McCusker. I think their chances for an individual medal were about the same. Skinner had the huge advantage over McCusker by showing she could put up a credible AA score plus threaten for a Finals spot in a different event.

While Skinner and Carey effectively knock each other out for finals spots, if Simone really is injured, it makes a lot more sense that he brought Skinner instead of McCusker.

Also, Carey apparently carried an injury all summer. So that was another reason to take Skinner.

The US should have put more effort into having their judges give accurate E scores throughout the past year.
 

VGThuy

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You know what else Tom and USAG failed at? Keeping up with other gymnasts around the world. People have been saying for a while that Russia would be coming in strong but it doesn't seem like any one at USAG bothered to prepare anyone for that. If random twitter stan #562 can see that, the people leading the US gymnastics program should as well.
What could they have done though? Is Tom in-charge of developing the gymnasts like a centralized system? I don't think he has that power. He can maybe emphasize certain things at camp but that's not like telling the gymnasts how to train and forcing them to work on certain skills. It's really individual how these gymnasts train.

Anyway, if Chiles had performed like she did all year, nobody would really be talking about Russia footing a better team without Simone because the U.S. would have had three gymnasts in the top 4 AA all ahead of the Russians, and nobody would think Russia supposedly has a better team.

I hate them, too. Do copyright issues contribute to this?

No. Usually skaters pick slower renditions of songs. Easier to skate to. Also, those overwrought covers that turn great pop songs into self-indulgent angst helps the skaters "emote".
 

Rukia

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What could they have done though? Is Tom in-charge of developing the gymnasts like a centralized system? I don't think he has that power. He can maybe emphasize certain things at camp but that's not like telling the gymnasts how to train and forcing them to work on certain skills. It's really individual how these gymnasts train.
In Golden Konnor and some other gymnasts talked about getting emails and even visits in the gym from Tom (he's shown visiting MyKayla), so clearly he's monitoring them and telling them and their coaches some things. But even just a, "Hey, don't sleep on the Russian team everyone. This could be close," instead of "We won't need a few tenths don't worry," may have changed their mindsets idk. Doing anything other than throwing up his hands and implying they can just send whoever so who cares would have been better.
 

Matryeshka

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Reading this thread I really wish I would have kept up with gymnastics the past four years--it sounds wildly exciting, like late 90s ice dance levels. I'll have to research the Jade Carey thing and McKayla TRUMP thing. How do you qualify through outside channels and go around the system?! What is this bizarre 4-2 system and different uniforms (that seems a bit against the spirit of the Olympics IMO).

However, as someone who just enjoys watching girls in sparkles twirling and boys in tight pants swirling every four years, I have to say, I don't quite get the panic about the American gymnasts. Even with Jordan's mistakes, I'll bet most other federations would KILL to have her on their teams. I bet the Dutch would kidnap Skinner if they could. I think they all did really well, and it just makes the finals more exciting to have the Americans come in at #2, and I'll bet Biles and co. will be pissed and perform harder--they won't be able to take their anointed win for granted.

USA! USA! USA! Davai Rossiya!

I also really liked one of the British gymnasts, I forget who, despite their horrid leos. Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? I mean did the Brits take one look at the specialist Chinese gymnast in the pretty blue and white or the Sri Lankan in the yellow and think, well, if we can't be a shining example of costuming we can at least be a horrible warning?
 

VGThuy

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In Golden Konnor and some other gymnasts talked about getting emails and even visits in the gym from Tom (he's shown visiting MyKayla), so clearly he's monitoring them and telling them and their coaches some things. But even just a, "Hey, don't sleep on the Russian team everyone. This could be close," instead of "We won't need a few tenths don't worry," may have changed their mindsets idk. Doing anything other than throwing up his hands and implying they can just send whoever so who cares would have been better.
I agree with the last part. Tom seemed like he felt he could just coast on the job a bit thinking he had the deepest and most dominant team in the world and probably thought it'd be like 2016 all over again. He's always been kind of...like an ear lobe. He's just there. He didn't seem particularly competent in the Kerri Strug fluff pieces back in the post-Barcelona/pre-Atlanta 1990s. We need a new director to take a much more hands on approach and reign things in. Marta, but without the abuse and ignoring of other abuses. Can there be a positive reinforcement version of Marta?
 

Doggygirl

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It definitely doesn't work because I, unlike my friends, actually do have a parent cable log in to steal, but they have the same cable company as I do. If I am accidentally logged into my own cable account instead of theirs or if it detects my internet connection and logs in that way, I can't access anything because it knows I don't have cable.
I’m way behind in this thread, so someone else may have already shared this info. In case not, I think my situation is similar to yours and Opera with VPN got us around that problem.
 

becca

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What could they have done though? Is Tom in-charge of developing the gymnasts like a centralized system? I don't think he has that power. He can maybe emphasize certain things at camp but that's not like telling the gymnasts how to train and forcing them to work on certain skills. It's really individual how these gymnasts train.

Anyway, if Chiles had performed like she did all year, nobody would really be talking about Russia footing a better team without Simone because the U.S. would have had three gymnasts in the top 4 AA all ahead of the Russians, and nobody would think Russia supposedly has a better team.



No. Usually skaters pick slower renditions of songs. Easier to skate to. Also, those overwrought covers that turn great pop songs into self-indulgent angst helps the skaters "emote".
I don’t think Jordan is better than the Russians. Many felt her beam was questionable wouldn’t be credited as much. Every single Russian made an event final. And all would have made at least two of it weren’t for

She is a solid gymnast but she doesn’t stand out in any event not event final worthy anywhere.

Domestic scoring isn’t international scoring.

All three are much better than her on bars and she is it significantly better on vault, floor or beam to make up


Without Simone the US would be good but this is a strong team on Russians end their score here is close to what the US got in 2019.
 

VGThuy

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I don’t think Jordan is better than the Russians. Many felt her beam was questionable wouldn’t be credited as much.

She is a solid gymnast but she doesn’t stand out in any event not event final worthy anywhere. Domestic scoring isn’t international scoring.

Without Simone the US would be good but this is a strong team on Russians end their score here is close to what the US got in 2019.
They wouldn’t just be good, they’d be gold medal contenders even without Simone if they hit and with Carey on the team. And yes Chiles with a four for four hit performance would be up there with Lee, if not higher. Lee is already ahead of the Russians.
 

becca

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They wouldn’t just be good, they’d be gold medal contenders even without Simone. And yes Chiles with a four for four hit performance would be up there with Lee, if not higher. Lee is already ahead of the Russians.
Lee is within a tenth of the Russians. That’s close to tie.


Jordan isn’t close to Lee.

It was not close between her and Lee at Trials.

Lee, and the Russians are way better than Jordan on bars. And Jordan doesn’t have an event she can’t make up for it.

Lee finished 1.2 ahead of Jordan at trials after both nights. She beat her at Nationals and that was with Lee having problems on floor one night.

How is it close Lee had beaten her by a good amount every time they competed
 
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VGThuy

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Lee is within a tenth of the Russians. That’s close to tie.


Jordan isn’t close to Lee.

It was not close between her and Lee at Trials.

Lee, and the Russians are way better than Jordan on bars. And Jordan doesn’t have an event she can’t make up for it.

Lee finished 1.2 ahead of Jordan at trials after both nights. She beat her at Nationals and that was with Lee having problems on floor one night.

How is it close Lee had beaten her by a good amount every time they competed
You’re probably right but Chiles would be within striking distance with the third Russian on a normal clean performance that she had all year and maybe be past her with a great one. Lee is within a tenth of two Russians, half the team and that’s with her “easier” bars routine.
 

Karen-W

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Lee is within a tenth of the Russians. That’s close to tie.


Jordan isn’t close to Lee.

It was not close between her and Lee at Trials.
Actually, the Russians are within a tenth of Lee. She beat them.

My guess is that Carey would have been the 2nd AAer for the US if we're alt-universing an event without Biles. I suspect that a lot of Chiles' improved consistency this season has been due to training with Biles. Take Biles out of the equation and do we necessarily have the Chiles of this season? She's still really good but my guess is that if she didn't have Biles there to help take the pressure off, she'd crack. We saw that a bit yesterday. Which lends credence to the theory that Biles is perhaps more injured than publicly acknowledged - but Chiles would be aware of it and maybe putting some pressure on herself to step up and fill in the gap should Biles falter.
 

VGThuy

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Also, if we’re going to play the take Simone out and the American team sucks game, then although Urazova and Listunova are close to Melkinova, there’s a huge gap between those three and Akhaimova. So take out Melkinova and then…
 

FiveRinger

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I will say this and take back a lot of criticism that I gave Jade Carey for taking the individual route. She and her team might have been the smartest of all of the American gymnasts because she did not leave her fate in the hands of Tom Forrester.
 

VGThuy

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I feel like Jordan's gymnastics even if she hit weren't going to necessarily hold up in international judging. She's a very solid but unspectacular gymnast. Her routines are rather cookie cutter, her lines not great at all.
Be that as it may, she still would have scored comfortably in the top ten and been within a few tenths of the top 6.
 

Allskate

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She's always been so far ahead but now it feels as though she's beatable. Maybe Suni will pull the mother of all upsets in the AA?

Suni beat Simone on the second day of Olympic Trials. So, Simone hasn't "always" been so far ahead, and it certainly is possible for Suni to beat Simone in the AA finals. IMO, although people are talking about how off Simone was in the prelims, I thought she had a worse day the second day of trials.

Simone has been saying that she has to learn to control her adrenaline. It's hard to know how much she's protecting her ankle and whether she's overcompensating to protect her ankle if she landed short.

But, it does seem like that the first vault in qualifying was an aberration.
 

Matryeshka

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So I did some research on Mykayla and her :yikes: Twitter feed. The things she said about Gabby Douglas :scream:

I’m glad Carey beat her out for the EF in vault and floor and that she’s going home empty-handed. And as for Carey beating the system, good for her. Tom, I have learned, is a douchenozzle.
 

canbelto

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You know, I'm doing some research and Myk's SM isn't even as extreme as, say Brody Malone's before his and his gf's was scrubbed. It seems kind of sexist to be so gleeful about Myk when on the MAG side there's someone who is more extreme.
 

her grace

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Reading this thread I really wish I would have kept up with gymnastics the past four years--it sounds wildly exciting, like late 90s ice dance levels. I'll have to research the Jade Carey thing . . . How do you qualify through outside channels and go around the system?! What is this bizarre 4-2 system and different uniforms (that seems a bit against the spirit of the Olympics IMO).

The FIG made a new system of qualification that would let event specialists qualify their own (not for their country) spots through the World Cup. That's how Carey earned her spot in the World Cup vault event series. I believe the idea was to help stellar event gymnasts qualify even if their teams weren't strong or they were not strong AA athletes. There was also the chance to qualify an additional non-team athlete through continental championships. Anyway, you don't need to familiarize yourself with the intricacies because the FIG has already voted not to use this system next time. :p

First off, why is anyone justifying Yourkayla even being there?

I know this is a subject that you're very passionate about, but could we not misname Mykayla?

Also, Grace McCallum didn't receive credit for a dance series on beam today.

Here's where the USA can make up ground; they need to hit beam in the final.

I feel like Jordan's gymnastics even if she hit weren't going to necessarily hold up in international judging. She's a very solid but unspectacular gymnast.

I think both Chiles and McCallum are competent all-around athletes, but neither have developed a "wow" event to go along with their AA prowess. Russia seems to have figured how to develop (or choose) athletes with at least one stronger piece in their repertoire.

I read a google translated article with Melnikova saying music for the Olympics required you to have permission from the copyright holder and she had to change her music at the last minute for that reason.

Time to bring back the live piano. :saint:
 

OlieRow

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You know what else Tom and USAG failed at? Keeping up with other gymnasts around the world. People have been saying for a while that Russia would be coming in strong but it doesn't seem like any one at USAG bothered to prepare anyone for that. If random twitter stan #562 can see that, the people leading the US gymnastics program should as well.

And this isn’t the first time Tom has been clueless on things like the competition, scoring, etc. He’s incompetent and IMO it’ll be hard to hide when Simone retires. I’m no expert but at times I feel like I could do certain aspects of his job better and there are definitely more knowledgeable fans who could.
 

FiveRinger

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And this isn’t the first time Tom has been clueless on things like the competition, scoring, etc. He’s incompetent and IMO it’ll be hard to hide when Simone retires. I’m no expert but at times I feel like I could do certain aspects of his job better and there are definitely more knowledgeable fans who could.
He’s just incompetent and then stupid enough to continue to stand in his shit.

When the HPC says stuff like he’s not going to worry about building a team around a couple of tenths and then continues to defend the process after a team that should have won on paper gets beat in qualifying, there’s a problem. There’s a bigger problem when same said person is admittedly unfamiliar with the scoring and also says that he’s not worried about winning medals. These women did not train and sacrifice for a lifetime to hear this idiot say he’s not worried about a medal count.

ETA: The gymnastics fans on Twitter are furious that his decades long grudge for what happened to his athletes in 1996 is as obvious as it is and it’s made him incapable of making decisions that are best for the team.
 

becca

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Also, if we’re going to play the take Simone out and the American team sucks game, then although Urazova and Listunova are close to Melkinova, there’s a huge gap between those three and Akhaimova. So take out Melkinova and then…
I wouldn’t say the American team sucks but Simone is big difference. I mean she is other worldly. Although honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an upset somewhere either in AA or Team Finals.

I am not getting the anger towards Tom in the sense that Grace was a good choice. He isn’t responsible for Jade going individual route.
The only thing is maybe Jordan should have had some international meet.

People were mad about Grace but Grace should do the AA.
 

Braulio

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I am glad that Alexa Moreno qualified to the vault final this time, her last attempt at an Olympic Games

Though I am realistic and know a medal is a looooong shot and she has to go super clean and others to falter

But well, odd things can happen!
 

CantALoop

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Is Tom's position a leftover from the Karyoli era?

I'm just amazed that such an important decision like building a team with minimal allowance for errors is left to one person instead of a committee.
 

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