2020 Non-Presidential U.S. Elections

caseyedwards

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When you have such noncompetitive districts the people who run are usually the crazy people! No sane person wants to waste their time. So that’s why republicans nominate nazis in Illinois or this woman in California. It happens with democrats too
 

VGThuy

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31,666
"In Caruso-Cabrera's book, "You Know I'm Right: More Prosperity, Less Government," Caruso-Cabrera unveiled her vision of limited government and explained why Ronald Reagan was her favorite president. (The forward to the book was written by Larry Kudlow, President Trump's National Economic Council director.) She serves as a member of the board of directors for financial services firm Beneficient."

Oh yeah, that will play well in the Bronx and Queens.

All the talk about waitresses and bartenders not having real jobs is probably one of the most insulting things I've ever read here. My mom supported me through my life mostly as a waitress and even when I was in law school she took her restaurant wages to give me some extra spending money when she wanted to give me some because she knew how expensive it was in New York. She supported all four of my siblings as well. Don't tell me that's not a real job.

Also, I worked in food service before law school and I have to say it is much more labor intensive and hard on the body and required consistently more long hours with less compensation than any other job I had. And despite what people think, no, not everyone can do it. Some people can't handle it.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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7,316
The same people who have complained for years about the "welfare queens" are now hypercritical of people doing honest restaurant work to support themselves. Do I sense a disconnect? I wonder who they think is going to serve them their queso and chips and IPAs at the local breweries.
 
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VGThuy

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It looks like District 128 in Maine was won by a Democrat in this special election.


Of course, it was previously held by a Democrat, but the point about Trump winning that district by 8 points in 2016 was accurate.
 

canbelto

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3,356
Trump goes back to an old favorire: bashing Jeff Sessions

 

Sparks

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10,867
Popular Democratic Montana Gov. Steve Bullock is now leaning towards running for Montana's Senate seat.
:cheer2:
 

Sparks

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Democrats can flip the Senate
 

Louis

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All the talk about waitresses and bartenders not having real jobs is probably one of the most insulting things I've ever read here. My mom supported me through my life mostly as a waitress and even when I was in law school she took her restaurant wages to give me some extra spending money when she wanted to give me some because she knew how expensive it was in New York. She supported all four of my siblings as well. Don't tell me that's not a real job.
Of course it's a real job, and I respect people who do this work. It's hard, unforgiving, and relatively low wage with some exceptions (Tony has a good gig). As I posted, I come from a family of bartenders, house cleaners, and other work that no one would else would do.

Which is why it boggles my mind that AOC chose to bartend, with her prestigious university degree, even though her family was (allegedly - I have my doubts) struggling. And this wasn't, according to her, a lucrative bartending gig, as has complained about not having health insurance, etc.

If I used my university degree to bartend, voluntarily, in a good economy where jobs were plentiful, my family would disown me. If I did this while a parent was struggling (I had a parent die, too), I wouldn't be able to live with myself. You get the best job you can that provides the best income you can earn for those who depend on you.

Her priorities seem fcuked up in a way that I find impossible to understand. She's someone who was handed life on a silver platter - grew up in a wealthy Westchester suburb with a father who was a licensed architect (a job requiring a graduate degree and not low paying) and CEO, lots of privilege, elite schools, and decided to use it to bartend. Now she goes around lying about her working class background (lie), growing up in the Bronx (lie), having to support her mother (probably a lie), and inventing this alternate persona. She's an absolute fraud, and as someone who did grow up in a working class background, I can't believe anyone buys it.
 

VGThuy

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31,666
Her mother cleaned houses throughout her life and picked up a job driving school buses for extra income. Her father did own a small architectural firm but they were still not far removed from The Bronx. You know things can be hard for small business owners though of course owning a business is still better off than many.

After graduation from Boston University with a degree in economics and international relations, where she had to take out college loans, she took a side gig as a bartender while working at an educational nonprofit. Many of her peers were working 2-to-3 jobs. A lot of college graduates in the late 2000s and early 2010s and even now are doing that. I know lawyers who are exploited by small firms as contract workers and have to side hustle other gigs on the side as well. I also know lawyers who had to stage strikes just for better benefits (some legal secretaries having to go on food stamps prior) from their non-profit legal services organizations while their CEO makes high 6 figures. She knows first-hand like many do of the "gig economy" that was created and is being written about now, including in The Meritocracy Trap that chronicles the history of our economy that has moved away from promoting within the company and hiring outside firms and have been encouraged by those firms to hire contract workers rather than full-time employees. I read a recent figure that said about 1/4 of the workforce is employed in such a manner and feel precarious about their situation but don't see any other alternative.

I think the constituents in her district can tell a fake and they see her as real.
 
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Louis

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I have a really hard time believing that AOC (1) is both as brilliant as she claims she is, and (2) couldn't get a better job. She went to one of the most expensive schools in the country and graduated cum laude in 2011, when the economy was quite healthy. In my world: if your family is struggling and you have those credentials, you don't go work at a bar and complain. You use your degree to get a well-paying job that pays your bills and helps your family. Her morals and values are completely misaligned to mine.

In terms of other fact-checking, she had a very reasonable student loan debt ($20k or so), and she moved from the Bronx when she was five. Her entire story seems concocted.
 

VGThuy

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I know a lot of very smart people who end up not where they expected. Life happens. Some of us take lower-paying work because we find our calling there. She obviously decided to go the non-profit route and realized first-hand how hard it was to make a living that way, like so many of us do, and decided to get active in politics. I took a lower paying job at a non-profit (one that offered me benefits) because I much preferred the work there and the people I was helping compared to private firm/big law I was being pushed into by some people. I think you're right that maybe it is just something you either get or don't get.
 

ballettmaus

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She went to one of the most expensive schools in the country and graduated cum laude in 2011, when the economy was quite healthy.
Maybe this just shows how much those expensive schools you worship for their prestige are really worth.
 

clairecloutier

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10,411
This is so LOL. I grew up in the next town over from AOC, and I can tell you that just because you're from Westchester doesn't mean you're rich or you've got it made. There are plenty of us from Westchester who were never either of those things. There are also plenty of us who have education and accomplishments and didn't necessarily jump right on the path to Wall Street or wherever, for a whole variety of reasons too numerous, complicated, and/or personal to name. Is it really that hard to understand that not everyone takes the same path in life? And that everyone has their own valid reasons as to why?
 

Louis

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14,154
Maybe this just shows how much those expensive schools you worship for their prestige are really worth.
Data says otherwise, but I do question the value of these extremely expensive private schools like Boston University, George Washington University, Villanova, etc. that charge exorbitant tuition fees well beyond what their university rankings would support.

It seems like AOC got a good deal of aid, so in her case, going to BU and graduating with $20k in debt seems like a reasonable choice. And she was a good student given that she graduated cum laude with a double major in serious subjects. I won't criticize her for everything.

She does seem to embody this millennial, upper-middle class, privileged belief that she should be able to do whatever she wants, with "free" everything and enough money to buy the latest iPhone. I'm not saying everyone needs to go work for McKinsey, but come on....
 

VGThuy

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Don't most people get new iPhones because their phone plans give it to them and they lease it for a very reasonable monthly rate? My phone is cheaper than a Netflix monthly fee.
 

snoopy

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I don’t know much about AOC’s upbringing so I went googling. I found this, which is coming at it in the opposite way of Louis who is saying she isn’t blue collar enough.

But what caught my eye was a point that summarizes why we are at where we are at: the wealthy think they are better at everything (and so everyone else is less deserving).


If Louis doesn’t see this play out at his workplace I’d be surprised. I see it all the time.
 

snoopy

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To that point, a systemic revolution won’t change anything if attitudes don’t change. Old patterns will find a way to repeat themselves. Train your mind, and the rest will follow.
 

Aerobicidal

Inspired by Selections
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This is so LOL. I grew up in the next town over from AOC, and I can tell you that just because you're from Westchester doesn't mean you're rich or you've got it made. There are plenty of us from Westchester who were never either of those things. There are also plenty of us who have education and accomplishments and didn't necessarily jump right on the path to Wall Street or wherever, for a whole variety of reasons too numerous, complicated, and/or personal to name. Is it really that hard to understand that not everyone takes the same path in life? And that everyone has their own valid reasons as to why?
I'm fervently hoping the answer to this is yes, because if it isn't I've wasted way too many brain cells getting enraged by disingenuous posts on FSU.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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6,846
I don’t know much about AOC’s upbringing so I went googling. I found this, which is coming at it in the opposite way of Louis who is saying she isn’t blue collar enough.

But what caught my eye was a point that summarizes why we are at where we are at: the wealthy think they are better at everything (and so everyone else is less deserving).


If Louis doesn’t see this play out at his workplace I’d be surprised. I see it all the time.
Regarding the bolded italicized part of the quoted section - particularly if they view themselves and their "success" as "self-made" and having risen above humble or inferior beginnings with much hard work or innate ability and no support from others.

Often people such as these speak quite openly about anyone who hasn't achieved success to their level as "lazy" or "spoiled" or "just not good enough" - and any parts of their own past or present personal circumstances (including family or SO's) which interfere with their "successful" personae or journeys are hidden or spoken of as much in the abstract as possible.

Not that I would have anyone particularly in mind...
 

flyushka

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Which is why it boggles my mind that AOC chose to bartend, with her prestigious university degree, even though her family was (allegedly - I have my doubts) struggling. And this wasn't, according to her, a lucrative bartending gig, as has complained about not having health insurance, etc.

If I used my university degree to bartend, voluntarily, in a good economy where jobs were plentiful, my family would disown me. If I did this while a parent was struggling (I had a parent die, too), I wouldn't be able to live with myself. You get the best job you can that provides the best income you can earn for those who depend on you.
I don't understand this - as an older millennial it seems like the norm to have spent some time bartending, waiting tables or similar. I don't know when you graduated or what field you went into but when I came out it was not easy to find these great jobs you're talking about with just an undergrad degree, no matter how expensive or fancy your school was. I think international relations is one of those fields that can be tough to break into, not sure how far you'd get with just a bachelors in economics either. The exception among friends of mine would be those who went into certain fields like finance or computer science, where high paying jobs were easier to come by in the first few years out of college. The rest of us struggled at times, or took these "lesser" jobs to help pay for grad school or student loans. I waited tables, scrubbed toilets at a hotel, worked a ticket booth and handed out hot dogs. Some of those jobs were a lot more grueling and taught me a lot more organizational and people skills that I still use now, than college or those fancy summer internships did.
 

Louis

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Train your work ethic, and the rest will follow. I believe in the philosophy of "grit," and that most people (not all) can be successful if they learn to be gritty and resilient.

AOC has been selectively gritty - very gritty in her campaign, now has a cushy $175k / year job in Congress. Good for her. She'll soon be one of the people she despises if she plays her cards right. Maybe she can have three homes like her idol Bernie, the "man of the people."

She could have applied that same grit to find a better job when she graduated from college. She had a good degree from a good school with a fabulous career services office and network that places 99% of students in professional jobs post-graduation, was in a city with plentiful employment.... yet she wanted to work at a bar so she had time to spout her socialist ideas.

That's actually fine with me. But then don't complain about low wages, lack of healthcare, etc. She had every option and privilege in the world, and she chose the low road. Own the choice. If she thinks we need free healthcare and everything else so that upper middle class kids can sit around with their iPhones occupying Wall Street and complaining that they don't have what the Boomers did instead of getting a job, I'm voting for somebody else. Anybody else. I suspect most "working class" people would, too, as this not is working class behavior - it's spoiled, upper middle class, millennial brat behavior, and AOC is a fraud and charlatan.

This is a really good example of why some of us are so opposed to this notion of "free everything" (which benefits overprivileged kids like AOC) v. an expanded safety net and some cost controls (which actually benefits the working class).
 

haribobo

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7,977
No, no, no. Perhaps she does play up the bartender thing a bit, you can't blame her. Politics is an image game. Your favorite Republicans do this too. But she is fighting for people who had less opportunities than she did. And "free everything" is not what she stands for. Anyway, I can see by the other posts that FSU already gets the point, and I know I won't convince you. So I don't know why I am wasting my breath...
 

allezfred

#EpidemiologistsNotEconomists
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Louis taking aim at a high profile female politician - now where have I seen this before....
 

snoopy

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Train your work ethic, and the rest will follow. I believe in the philosophy of "grit," and that most people (not all) can be successful if they learn to be gritty and resilient.

Median income in the US is about 60k. What jobs are those 100 plus million people going to get to become wealthy if they are sufficiently gritty?

10 million people work in food service where the median hourly salary is $10 an hour. Do most of them have architect fathers and degrees from Boston college?

Average retail store managers make about $45k a year and many of those jobs require a crap ton of hours, opening and closing stores. Now, Walmart store managers make $175k a year, yet assistant managers are right at that $45k a year average. Cashiers make $14 an hour. Walmart needs a lot more cashiers than store managers.

I don’t know if AOC is a charlatan but most people pulling in less than $50k a year aren’t. The numbers do not at all work out to say most people can become financially successful. There’s not enough of those types of jobs.

Things don’t have to be free but the well paid could be less stingy and share some of the largess with those workers pulling in peanuts. The income multiple for admin assistants to CEOs doesn’t have to be 300.

But they won’t. My point, which really has nothing to do with AOC, is people who make a lot of money think they are uniquely special and deserving and all those cashiers just aren’t gritty enough.
 
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Louis

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Louis taking aim at a high profile female politician - now where have I seen this before....
I think this is a low blow. I aggressively supported Hillary Clinton in 2008 and 2016, supported Amy Klobuchar in this primary, supported and defended Theresa May in the UK.... I speak out against socialist politicians, which also include Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn. But it's far easier to use -isms than to try to defend obvious lies that has no defense. The left is no better than the right in terms of believing what it wants to believe: like Sandy from Westchester is actually Alexandria from the Bronx.

Margaret Thatcher was a woman, too, and said it best: "the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
 

SpeedySucks

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I think this is a low blow. I aggressively supported Hillary Clinton in 2008 and 2016, supported Amy Klobuchar in this primary, supported and defended Theresa May in the UK....
So, to paraphrase Elizabeth Warren, “you’ve supported some women.”

Doesn’t excuse the misogyny when it comes to the others.
 

Louis

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14,154
So, to paraphrase Elizabeth Warren, “you’ve supported some women.”

Doesn’t excuse the misogyny when it comes to the others.
Warren supporters and others seem to be taking the extreme position that you cannot possibly criticize a woman.

Should you all have rallied around Sarah Palin? Sarah Sanders? Betsy De Vos? You've supported "some women," too, on the basis of their policies and positions. Oh wait, the rules only apply to people critical of the far left.....
 

Zemgirl

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AOC has been selectively gritty - very gritty in her campaign, now has a cushy $175k / year job in Congress.
She works pretty hard at this cushy job.

@PRlady will know better than me how much it costs to live in the DC, but I get the sense that 175K doesn't go as far there as it would in some places. Especially when you also have to maintain a residence in New York.
 

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