2020 Euros Ladiez FS TBD

annie_mg

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1,112
Oh, I would prefer a 4-triple Kostner to a 8-triple, 3A jumping Kostornia, but right now Kostornia is the best we've got. I am praying that Satoko's work with Barkell will be fruitful.

I think what Kostornia is lacking is depth. She sells the heck out of a crap program but it is, after all, a crap program created for a teenage girl. I hope they give her decent material next year, and then we can see whether she has the maturity for art. I am not holding my breath. But - Kostner at 16, 17, was not the artists she was at 21, either.
This. I don't know the last time I saw a 16 year old skater as complete as Kostornaia. Kostner was very clumsy at 16. With Russian's depth, I doubt we'll get to see Kostornaia grow and mature like she did. People tend to forget this is her first senior season.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
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2,945
This. I don't know the last time I saw a 16 year old skater as complete as Kostornaia. Kostner was very clumsy at 16. With Russian's depth, I doubt we'll get to see Kostornaia grow and mature like she did. People tend to forget this is her first senior season.
And this is the part where I admit that I never "got" Kostner as the alpha and omega of artistic skating. I always found her slow and sluggish. If we're talking artistic skaters who struggled with jumps Sasha Cohen is exhibit A (for me, at least).
 

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
895
And this is the part where I admit that I never "got" Kostner as the alpha and omega of artistic skating. I always found her slow and sluggish. If we're talking artistic skaters who struggled with jumps Sasha Cohen is exhibit A (for me, at least).
This. Her Bolero was still cringe-worthy with that butt-shaking and kiss-blowing. She also telegraphed her jumps so much you could've grabbed coffee in the meantime.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,610
I feel pretty much the same. Since so many skaters cite Kostner as an artistic inspiration, I'm willing to believe that there's something there that I'm missing. They know the sport and understand it better than I do. I'm sure it's there, I've just never been able to see it myself.
 

annie_mg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,112
And this is the part where I admit that I never "got" Kostner as the alpha and omega of artistic skating. I always found her slow and sluggish. If we're talking artistic skaters who struggled with jumps Sasha Cohen is exhibit A (for me, at least).
Huge Sasha fan here. Note, I wrote that Kostner 'grew and matured', which she definitely did whether we are fans or not. I agree with you and I don't think she is the epitomy of artistry either, I was just responding to the previous poster who took her as an example. Some of her programmes though, such as her 'Ne me quitte pas' SP were pretty damn good.
 

Zemgirl

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12,730
I didn't love Bolero when Kostner debuted it in 2012-13, but when I saw her live at 2014 Euros I was absolutely sold. Her peers agreed: this is the skaters' section at the end of her Olympic FS.

Kostner was fast and had really solid technique. I liked her from the very first time I saw her (2003 Euros, aged 15), but there's no question that what she was capable of then paled in comparison to what she produced later in her career. She had some really wonderful programs and interesting music choices. We as fans are lucky that she represented a country where there wasn't always someone breathing down her neck, so she was able to grow as a competitor and an artist.

Kostornaia may get there too, but at the moment she's still very young and her ability to interpret music has a lot of room to grow.
 

Vagabond

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15,046
And this is the part where I admit that I never "got" Kostner as the alpha and omega of artistic skating. I always found her slow and sluggish.
She is renowned for being one of the fastest skaters of her era.

This is Carolina Kostner we're talking about, not Kevin Costner.
 

Polaris

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895
Kostornaia is 16 YEARS OLD, and people are comparing her to Kostner as a 26 year old. Come on now. That's an entire decade gap.

Again, Kostornaia is more artistic than any 16 year old skater I've seen. Not even Kim or Asada were this good at 16.
 
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jlai

Title-less
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12,520
Kostornaia is 16 YEARS OLD, and people are comparing her to Kostner as a 26 year old. Come on now. That's an entire decade gap.

Again, Kostornaia is more artistic than any 16 year old skater I've seen. Not even Kim or Asada were this good at 16.
Technically or artistically? Technically almost any skater top ten at worlds are doing more than what they did back then. It was a different era. Artistically, that is subjective. But Alena is among the best in her generation for sure.
 

Zemgirl

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12,730
Kostornaia is 16 YEARS OLD, and people are comparing her to Kostner as a 26 year old. Come on now. That's an entire decade gap.
The comparison came up because of a post that jokingly mentioned skaters whose last names begin with "Kost". Nobody expects Kostornaia to have the maturity or repertoire of an older skater. It's just that while she has lovely skills and flow, not everyone is wowed by her.

Again, Kostornaia is more artistic than any 16 year old skater I've seen. Not even Kim or Asada were this good at 16.
Kim at 16. I'd rather watch her even though it Tango de Roxanne:
(scores were lower back then; this was a world record)
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
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16,812
And this is the part where I admit that I never "got" Kostner as the alpha and omega of artistic skating. I always found her slow and sluggish. If we're talking artistic skaters who struggled with jumps Sasha Cohen is exhibit A (for me, at least).
Who did you see on the rink and who did you see on the TV?
Cohen was my favourite skater on the TV till I saw her live in Paris - she was hardly covering any ice, her jumps were 3cm high. Yes, she was super elegant in every move she did, she is one of my favourite skaters, but on the TV screen only please.

Kostner is the exact opposite- you can't see on the screen how fast she goes - and I don't mean how fast she moves her legs - the opposite - she does one crossover and she is flying across the ice. Something I was never able to figure from the screen and only became obvious when sitting in the rink. Only when seeing those skaters live I understood why Kostner, Chan, Verner, Lambiel, Hanyu, Kozuka, Uno are in a league of their own.
 

BittyBug

Wishing it weren't so
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22,276
@TAHbKA I'm glad you included Verner in that list because his skating skills were spectacular but not always fully appreciated.

Kostner was a total speed demon, often to her detriment until she learned to control herself later in her career. I first saw her at 2003 Worlds and she would go from one end of the rink to the other in the blink of any eye. Effortless speed.
 

shine

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4,831
Kostornaia is 16 YEARS OLD, and people are comparing her to Kostner as a 26 year old. Come on now. That's an entire decade gap.

Again, Kostornaia is more artistic than any 16 year old skater I've seen. Not even Kim or Asada were this good at 16.
I like Kostornaia, but that is a VERY subjective statement. Personally I think she deserves very high PCS for her polished technique and presentation and find her to be one of the most “finished” all around skaters for her age ever, but her so called artistry is overrated.
 
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PRlady

Nerdy flack
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34,561
Sasha was more artistic than Kosternaia at 16, IMO, and Yuna as well. Kwan, goes without saying. There were/are all prodigies that we are lucky to have and I wouldn't rank them then or now, but I also want to see what Alena could do with some inspired choreo (lotsa luck) and a non-wince-able story.
 

Polaris

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895
I like Kostornaia, but that is a VERY subjective statement. Personally I think she deserves very high PCS for her polished technique and presentation and find her to be one of the most “finished” all around skaters for her age ever, but her so called artistry is overrated.
Yes, it is a subjective statement. That's why I said "I've ever seen".
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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61,905
His gliding and speed were totally lost on the screen.
Which is why viewing on TV and complaining about consistent scoring of a skater across multiple events and judging panels should raise a viewer question about what the camera is catching versus what the judges and tech controllers are actually seeing.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
15,053
I didn't get to see Bonaly but I failed to see what Pluschenko had except for the jumps.
Let's just say if you sit through a December cheesefest in Auburn Hills, Michigan with aging stars and others who are training to peak 5 weeks later, you really appreciate his charisma.
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
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16,812
Let's just say if you sit through a December cheesefest in Auburn Hills, Michigan with aging stars and others who are training to peak 5 weeks later, you really appreciate his charisma.
I have no idea what is a December cheesefest, where are Aurburn Hills and can point on Michigan on the map.... but erm, ok....
 

npavel

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,568
And this is the part where I admit that I never "got" Kostner as the alpha and omega of artistic skating. I always found her slow and sluggish. If we're talking artistic skaters who struggled with jumps Sasha Cohen is exhibit A (for me, at least).
sorry, Kostner is the fastest skater out there, but if you didn't see her live, you missed that. The streaming of TV never get to show that. But everyone that have seen her live, can agree she is the faster out there, completelly silent in her skating and needs only two or three strokings to get the lenght of the ice rink.
Shasha Cohen did so much noise on the ice, when I saw her live I could not enjoy her skating any more as it was so distracting
 

npavel

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3,568
Kostornaia is 16 YEARS OLD, and people are comparing her to Kostner as a 26 year old. Come on now. That's an entire decade gap.

Again, Kostornaia is more artistic than any 16 year old skater I've seen. Not even Kim or Asada were this good at 16.
I agree that Kostornaia is more artistic than most 16 year old skater, but that is the problem. She could develop and be such a great skater, lets say, as a 23 or 25 years old, but we probably never will see her develop and never will be able to enjoy her artistic development as the system only rewards jumps and the artistic points should be far away from the points Kostner got at Milano Worlds 2018
 

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