2020 4CC Men FS

barbk

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Yup. We had 3 Nguyens at my last workplace. One Wen, one Nwen, and one Nooyen. The Nooyen said his family just gave up as his dad had worked on US bases in Nam and had been called that since his dad was a teenager.
My next door neighbor is from Louisiana. Last name Hebert. Down there, she's ay-BEAR. Up here she just introduces herself as HE-burt. She gave up the fight a long time ago.
 

kwanfan1818

I <3 Kozuka
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32,220
Yup. We had 3 Nguyens at my last workplace. One Wen, one Nwen, and one Nooyen. The Nooyen said his family just gave up as his dad had worked on US bases in Nam and had been called that since his dad was a teenager.
My work friend used Nwen, and I assumed that was the Vietnamese pronunciation, because the "n" was audible, but not emphasized. When a skating friend who shares the name told me that isn't how it would be pronounced in Vietnamese, I confirmed with work friend that it was because his family was tired of saying "Wen, with an 'n'" whenever anyone tried to look up their last name.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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48,986
This was an excellent competition. So many high quality programs. Toward the end I had to force myself to be awake because of the late hours and not because of the skating.

Missed opportunity for Boyang. He doubled two of his quads and missed out on a medal. It was frustrating to see him a quad lutz, then double the quad salchow.

Sixteen year old Yuma Kagiyama is a star in the making. I rarely see such confidence in a 16 year old. I thought he should have won the silver.

I was confused by Cha’s low placement. I thought he skated very well.

Nam Nguyen gave a great performance.

So happy to see Han Yan deliver a clean skate again. When he was skating I didn’t even look at the tracker. Just wanted to enjoy watching him. I don’t know if he is working on a quad. I think right now he may just be focusing on skating clean.

Pulkinen had a very respectable skate, despite a few errors.

Yuzuru had a ‘a little disappointing but good enough to win’ performance. I am happy that he is bringing back the 4Lz, but I hope it doesn’t cause an injury. He must have felt that he needed it to beat Chen. I don’t know if he can, unless he skates two perfect programs. Anyway, I am very happy to see him skate and win.

Jason was great. I love watching him skate and I respect his artistry. I do have a gripe though. Figure skating is a sport. Most skaters are challenging themselves technically by trying more and more difficult jumps. I don’t see Jason doing that. The judges respect him highly though, and that is important. I just have mixed feelings about his skating. He skated clean because he didn’t attempt high risk elements like Yuzuru and others did. Not to say musical interpretation is easy, but jumps are the highest risk elements and that’s why they get high marks. I always enjoy his skating. It is the technical aspect that bothers me a bit. Congrats to him on his silver.

I love this podium.

I loved the little toys they gave the medal winners. Better than flowers. The skaters can play with the toys much longer. :)

So happy that nbc sports gold showed the entire medal ceremony!
 

Spun Silver

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@Vash01, Jason did attempt a quad, as he did at Nats. He hasn't landed it successfully yet but he's working on it. He has also greatly improved his other jumps, esp the 3A. Surely jumps even from a sporting perspective are about quality and not just quantity.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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@Vash01, Jason did attempt a quad, as he did at Nats. He hasn't landed it successfully yet but he's working on it. He has also greatly improved his other jumps, esp the 3A. Surely jumps even from a sporting perspective are about quality and not just quantity.
He has not landed even one quad. In order to determine quality you need to have at least some quantity to evaluate it.
 

MacMadame

My G.O.A.T is better than your G.O.A.T.
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Yup. We had 3 Nguyens at my last workplace. One Wen, one Nwen, and one Nooyen. The Nooyen said his family just gave up as his dad had worked on US bases in Nam and had been called that since his dad was a teenager.
Maybe if SBS Man just picked one of those and stuck with it... I don't know why this one set me off so much but he's been doing this long enough and the skaters do provide pronunciation guides to their names but he was mangling them right and left.

Most skaters are challenging themselves technically by trying more and more difficult jumps. I don’t see Jason doing that.
Not sure I agree with this. Jason reworked all his jumps in the past two years and now has a reliable 3X and is getting there on the quad. His jumps are a thing of beauty, actually.

But figuring skating is about more than jumps. Jason also has hard spins and footwork. I wish some of the quad guys would challenge themselves by working on those aspects of their skating. Some of these guys go out and attempt 2 quads in the short, sometimes land them, sometimes not, but then get level 2 on their footwork and spins. Personally, I think they should cut back on the quads and get those spin and footwork levels up. That takes technical skill too.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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My work friend used Nwen, and I assumed that was the Vietnamese pronunciation, because the "n" was audible, but not emphasized. When a skating friend who shares the name told me that isn't how it would be pronounced in Vietnamese, I confirmed with work friend that it was because his family was tired of saying "Wen, with an 'n'" whenever anyone tried to look up their last name.
Long ago someone had told me that it is pronounced Win. Then on Fsu I read that Nam pronounces it Nyuwen (?). For my manicure I go to a shop that has has all Vietnamese. I will ask them. However, it would make sense if Nam decided to have a pronunciation that is closer to the spelling.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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Maybe if SBS Man just picked one of those and stuck with it... I don't know why this one set me off so much but he's been doing this long enough and the skaters do provide pronunciation guides to their names but he was mangling them right and left.


Not sure I agree with this. Jason reworked all his jumps in the past two years and now has a reliable 3X and is getting there on the quad. His jumps are a thing of beauty, actually.

But figuring skating is about more than jumps. Jason also has hard spins and footwork. I wish some of the quad guys would challenge themselves by working on those aspects of their skating. Some of these guys go out and attempt 2 quads in the short, sometimes land them, sometimes not, but then get level 2 on their footwork and spins. Personally, I think they should cut back on the quads and get those spin and footwork levels up. That takes technical skill too.
It is the age old argument- skating is more than just jumping, and I agree. However, it is a sport and I believe in high risk high reward. Jumps are The highest risk elements. Jason does get rewarded for what he does well. However, when you see someone like Yuzuru mastering the jumps and artistry, I don’t see why he should not be admired more. Even Nathan Chen has come a long way in his presentation. They are not just sitting on their quads. They (and others) are working on both.
 

shah

Shhh... shhh...
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What a competition! A great top 3, indeed, but I can't hide it that I'm heartbroken for Cha - it's so difficult to choose between two fantastic performances (Cha and Kagiyama, that is).

Donovan and Chris Caluza were so undermarked it hurt! :wuzrobbed:wuzrobbed:wuzrobbed
 

Tavi

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It is the age old argument- skating is more than just jumping, and I agree. However, it is a sport and I believe in high risk high reward. Jumps are The highest risk elements. Jason does get rewarded for what he does well. However, when you see someone like Yuzuru mastering the jumps and artistry, I don’t see why he should not be admired more. Even Nathan Chen has come a long way in his presentation. They are not just sitting on their quads. They (and others) are working on both.
In the first place, who has ever said that Yuzuru is not “admired” or rewarded more than Jason? He has a huge and adoring fan base and he’s a two-time World and Olympic champion. Not to mention last I looked, Yuzu won here, not Jason. Second, Nathan has come a long way in presentation but what has that got to do with Jason? Nathan also has plenty of fans and is a two-time World champion. Beyond that, though, if you think Jason is just a lazy not very good athlete sitting around waiting to be rewarded for his pretty spirals, you’re either willfully ignorant of the difficulty and textbook quality of what he does do or willfully blind to the fact that he’s been working his butt off to master a quad and that in his last two competitions he’s landed fully rotated 4Ts in official practices. But hey, if you want to ignore all that and think of Jason as second rate, by all means continue.
 

Carolla5501

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It is the age old argument- skating is more than just jumping, and I agree. However, it is a sport and I believe in high risk high reward. Jumps are The highest risk elements. Jason does get rewarded for what he does well. However, when you see someone like Yuzuru mastering the jumps and artistry, I don’t see why he should not be admired more. Even Nathan Chen has come a long way in his presentation. They are not just sitting on their quads. They (and others) are working on both.
Did you actually watch the event? Or did you just make your mind up before you saw it. Because I hate to say this I didn’t see Hanyu doing outstanding artistry in this particular skate.

that was one of my big problems with it, it’s a recycled program that was done a lot better before. When you recycle
a program and you’ve done it well, and then you just do OK, everybody notices. Unfortunately Hanyu seems to be regressing in my opinion when it comes to actual skating presentation.
 

MacMadame

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It is the age old argument- skating is more than just jumping, and I agree. However, it is a sport and I believe in high risk high reward. Jumps are The highest risk elements.
They are, but we do see people messing up spins and footwork too. It's just that when people mess up spins, it's usually in a more subtle. So they get a level 2 instead of 4. Maybe you notice a stumble. Or not.

I get that some people are more excited by jumps, but I don't agree that Jason isn't working on pushing his technical content. If he wasn't interested in pushing the technical, he'd not have moved to Canada.
 

Vagabond

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My work friend used Nwen, and I assumed that was the Vietnamese pronunciation, because the "n" was audible, but not emphasized. When a skating friend who shares the name told me that isn't how it would be pronounced in Vietnamese, I confirmed with work friend that it was because his family was tired of saying "Wen, with an 'n'" whenever anyone tried to look up their last name.
I used to get telephone calls at work from a woman named Uyen Nguyen. Since I never had to pronounce her name back to her, I thought it was kind of a "win-win" situation. 🤷‍♂️
 

gkelly

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don't be greedy, hope he can get at least 3/4 of one quad
Wouldn't 3/4 of a quad be a triple?

It is the age old argument- skating is more than just jumping, and I agree. However, it is a sport and I believe in high risk high reward. Jumps are The highest risk elements. Jason does get rewarded for what he does well. However, when you see someone like Yuzuru mastering the jumps and artistry, I don’t see why he should not be admired more. Even Nathan Chen has come a long way in his presentation. They are not just sitting on their quads. They (and others) are working on both.
They're all working on pushing their own limits wherever they can.

Those who can excel in jumps and spins and steps and skating and performance are the ones who end up winning. But everyone hits their own limit at some point, especially on the jumps where physiology and gravity have a lot of input.
 

Simone411

Do stand. Do stand six. Do stand six feet from me.
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He has not landed even one quad. In order to determine quality you need to have at least some quantity to evaluate it.
Well, if you look at it that way … in order to determine the quality of artistry and technique that others have compared to Jason, those skaters need to have some quality and quantity to evaluate that.
 

victorskid

Happily ignoring pontificators & know-it-alls
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When I watch competitive figure skating I want to see a "complete package" with some relationship to the music/story and lots of interesting "pictures" created by the transitions, positions, steps, etc. There are a few skaters who are able to do this very successfully and sometimes they are rewarded as I think they should be.

For a skater to try jumps that they have a low percentage of success with in practice and falling on the attempt(s) disrupts things, in my opinion. That disruption is generally reflected in the scoring, sometimes in more than one way/part of the total score.

I also like to see a skater appearing to enjoy their time on the ice.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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When I watch competitive figure skating I want to see a "complete package" with some relationship to the music/story and lots of interesting "pictures" created by the transitions, positions, steps, etc. There are a few skaters who are able to do this very successfully and sometimes they are rewarded as I think they should be.

For a skater to try jumps that they have a low percentage of success with in practice and falling on the attempt(s) disrupts things, in my opinion. That disruption is generally reflected in the scoring, sometimes in more than one way/part of the total score.

I also like to see a skater appearing to enjoy their time on the ice.
You can watch exhibitions and enjoy those.
 

Impromptu

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You can watch exhibitions and enjoy those.
Eh, considering in a program with 8 jumping passes, a skater is only in the air at most 16 seconds - and, mid air, jumps look fairly interchangable - programs would be interminable without the other 3 minutes and 45 seconds of the other stuff.
 

jlai

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Quad or not, one thing Jason left on the table was somehow he didn’t manage to get the 3/3 in the second half of the short. Lost the bonus there. Didn’t affect results this time but it could matter next time. And once he got the 3a stable he could put that in second half in the Lp too
 

VGThuy

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This is how Viets pronounce Nguyen when they are actually speaking Vietnamese (northern dialect):


Southern dialect:


The problem is the "ng" sound that isn't really native to most English speakers (except in the suffix of a word like the very last sound of "thinking" so it's not really native to start a word with that sound) nor is the stress in the middle part. So it sounds more like "win" even though I don't think it sounds totally like that word. We just accept that "win" is the best we can get.

When I would answer the phone as kid at my aunt/uncle's house in the 90s, I would always have people asking for "Mr. or Mrs. No-Goy-Yien/Na-Guy-Yien". My mom's a "Nguyen" but my Dad's a "Le" so I have my surname mispronounced as "Lee" instead of something closer to "Lei" with a perked up accent at the end. My family and probably most others with the "Le" surname mostly go with it, but I don't anymore and correct people to the closer-to-correct pronunciation. In law school, my very seasoned property professor in the first class asked for "Ms. Lee" and I answered then she then replied "Is it 'Lee' or 'Lei'?" And I answered it was the second, and then she asked me why didn't I correct her? It was her way of teaching me to not be afraid to speak up.
 
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Simone411

Do stand. Do stand six. Do stand six feet from me.
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A jump being "reliable" doesn't mean you always hit it. Also, saying he has a reliable triple Axel now is hardly disproved by citing an event from almost a year ago.
I was looking for your post and found it again. I'm in much agreement with you on this particular point. That also goes for several of the best skaters out there (and not just Jason) … from the present and past.

Skaters that have very reliable jumps but don't always hit them are Yuzuru Hanu, Nathan Chen, Evgenia Medvedeva (her jumps were flawless at the beginning, but she couldn't be perfect all the time - no one can). I could go on and on about the best skaters of today.

Best skaters from the past and their jumps, Irina Slutskeya, Michelle Kwan, and Sasha Cohen who had beautiful artistry and presentation just like Jason, but never had two clean programs until the 2004 Marshalls World Figure Skating Challenge. Until then, she never had a clean long program because she would always miss, fall or come short on at least one of her jumps.

2004 Marshalls WSC Sasha Cohen - Swan Lake

2004 Marshalls WSC Sasha Cohen - K&C

And even though Sasha's long program, Swan Lake, wasn't clean, she won Silver at 2004 Worlds Championships. This is much like Jason because his presentation, artistry is impeccable. To me, Sasha and Jason are much alike when it comes to those skills.
 

PRlady

Nerdy flack
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Jason often skates clean, he just doesn't have the quad arsenal some of the others do. But I'd rather watch him than Zhou or Boyang any day of the week.

Of the multiple-quadsters, only Yuzu, Shoma, Nathan, Aliev (I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two) have both the technical goods and decent or wonderful performance/skating skills/musicality for me to enjoy their skating. It's been years since I've watched men regularly, this 4CCs was like a great gift because so many recent mens' comps have been splatfests.
 

caseyedwards

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13,648
Maybe if SBS Man just picked one of those and stuck with it... I don't know why this one set me off so much but he's been doing this long enough and the skaters do provide pronunciation guides to their names but he was mangling them right and left.


Not sure I agree with this. Jason reworked all his jumps in the past two years and now has a reliable 3X and is getting there on the quad. His jumps are a thing of beauty, actually.

But figuring skating is about more than jumps. Jason also has hard spins and footwork. I wish some of the quad guys would challenge themselves by working on those aspects of their skating. Some of these guys go out and attempt 2 quads in the short, sometimes land them, sometimes not, but then get level 2 on their footwork and spins. Personally, I think they should cut back on the quads and get those spin and footwork levels up. That takes technical skill too.
This is not true of Jin who only gets level 4s
 

MacMadame

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It's true of a lot of the 2nd tier skaters though. These guys don't, IMO, actually have quads. They can land them in practice but their competition completion rate is less than 50%. I say take at least one out of the short and get those levels up first. Then put the 2nd one back. They'll most likely score better than getting level 2 with GOE that's barely positive or even negative.
 

Fairuza

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Can't go to bed before getting this out...been playing in my mind since the event ended. My husband & I attended the GPF in Quebec City 9 years ago in 2011. When the jr. men came out for warmup, there were 2 skaters no one could take their eyes off. Yuzuru Hanyu & Jason Brown, both 16 years old. Hanyu's reaction of surprise when he realized the crowd was cheering his every move was priceless. And the sheer love of skating radiating from that poney-tailed kid from the USA shone to the rafters and touched everyone in the arena. What were the chances the boy from Japan and the boy from USA, 9 long years later, would train together in Canada & win gold & silver at the 2020 Four Continents, both at the age of 25? I think that is absolutely AMAZING!!! You just never know what life has in store.
Hello? Yuzuru Hanyu was skating for seniors as early as 2010? He did make it GPF that year, but he belonged among the old boys, not youngsters.
 

Sally1214

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Hello? Yuzuru Hanyu was skating for seniors as early as 2010? He did make it GPF that year, but he belonged among the old boys, not youngsters.
Yes, you are right. Don't know why I thought they were in the same warmup group but it wasn't really the point of my post, which WAS that no one could take their eyes off these 2 skaters, who were just so mesmerizing and they are the 2 skaters I remember above all others from that event in Quebec City. And, Yuzuru was hardly "old" ... he and Jason were both 16 years old. And, I still think it's amazing that they are now training together and still thrilling audiences around the world.

And, by the way, I really hate it when someone notices an honest error I made and chooses to start their reply with "Hello?" It's rude. I don't mind one bit being corrected, so thanks for that. But, I'm not a stupid person and don't appreciate being disrespected.
 
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misskarne

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And, by the way, I really hate it when someone notices an honest error I made and chooses to start their reply with "Hello?" It's rude. I don't mind one bit being corrected, so thanks for that. But, I'm not a stupid person and don't appreciate being disrespected.
Especially when they're going to nitpick it more than a month later!
 

Fairuza

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321
Especially when they're going to nitpick it more than a month later!
Simples. I had no access to the thread. Usually I am all right with attitude problems (sheer amount of bitching about Fanyus had me smile), but I hate factual ones.
I appreciate you honest efforts to teach me manners, thank you very much.
 

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