2019 SkAm Ladies FS - Waking Up In Vegas

skatingguy

Golden Team
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7,155
Bradie Tennell FS

I have watched the second triple lutz combination in slow motion, and I have to say that it looks to my less-than-expert eye that she enters facing forward into the planned triple toe loop (at about 3:07) and does not get all the way around to face forward when she lands. In other words, I think she does about two-and-two-fifths rotations, which should be marked as an overrotated double toe loop, rather than two and and half rotations, which would be a downgraded triple toe loop.

Yet I have seen posts here on FSU suggesting that she did a triple toe loop, albeit one that possibly should have been downgraded. Am I missing something?
If the technical panel thought the take-off was forward wouldn't they have ruled the jump invalid and marked it as 3Lz+2T*.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
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9,865
https://youtu.be/lVbx_1TVMNs?t=393

Even in the slow-mo it's very clearly a 3T - I don't even think the jump is pre-rotated at all - it's definitely not a toe-axel - she plants the toe pick back and turns on it as the free leg comes through which is the proper technique on the toe-loop. She does land forwards and turns on the ice to complete the rotation but that's definitely a 3T<< not a double.
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
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11,804
I suspect she does select a body type when admitting students to her program. Many, many skaters audition for admission to their school. Many are rejected. Skaters acknowledge admission to the Sambo-70 school is highly selective. They essentially audition for spots. Mishin did exactly the same thing for years. I'm sure there are a number of criteria they look for in admitting a skater to the program and body type is one of them. Unlike Canada or the US, the Russians and Chinese, for that matter, don't take any skater who can afford to pay. Raf has discussed this many, many times. It's something he finds very difficult about his own situation. He has to take skaters to pay the bills that he ordinarily would not. Consequently, over time, the selective process produces similar skaters with similar results.
Sambo-70 is not a democratic “y’all come” melting pot. Neither are the elite ballet academies in Russia, like the Vaganova. Trainees are selected, in part, based on genetics, facial beauty, family bone structures, etc. Such systems produce results. Deal with it.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
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2,179
I saw the Bolshoi Ballet recently and it was like Attack of the Clone Army. Everyone looked identical and had the same hair cuts too. Worked great for matching lines during group numbers, but it was difficult to tell the individual dancers apart. Makes sense that they were all selected to be very similar.

Completely different to our local ballet company which is a melting pot of different ethnicities, body shapes, personalities (and hair styles lol). Much prefer this actually - adds a bit more spark to the company.
 

Erin

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9,701
Adding to previous post- there was a Canadian Nationals around 2013 where Alaine Chartrand wasn’t given proper credit for a jump sequence IIRC under the newer rules, and it was because Skate Canada hadn’t updated their software with the rules that had been used that entire season. Amelie Lacoste initially won the bronze medal, Chartrand’s team questioned the call within the allotted time, and while Lacoste was waiting near the ice for the medal ceremony, she was told the result actually changed in Chartrand’s favor and she had no longer won a medal.
Yes, it was 2013 Canadians. The calling error was that Chartrand’s triple lutz-euler-triple salchow was called a triple lutz-triple sal sequence rather than a three jump combination. Multiplying the jumps by 80% and not including the value of the euler was enough to make the difference between 3rd and 4th originally. While it’s good that the call was corrected and she got proper credit, the way it was communicated to Lacoste couldn’t have been handled worse.
 

Vagabond

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15,429
It is definitely a triple attempt. It is pretty clear even in that poor quality video. It was even clearer that it was a triple on NBC Sports. Even if she prerotated they should have given it a downgrade but should have not been called a clean double.
The panel doesn't record the number of rotations attempted; it records the number of rotations accomplished. Still, if Tennell rotated just over two and a half times, the jump was a 3T<<, not a 2T.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,131
I saw the Bolshoi Ballet recently and it was like Attack of the Clone Army. Everyone looked identical and had the same hair cuts too. Worked great for matching lines during group numbers, but it was difficult to tell the individual dancers apart. Makes sense that they were all selected to be very similar.

Completely different to our local ballet company which is a melting pot of different ethnicities, body shapes, personalities (and hair styles lol). Much prefer this actually - adds a bit more spark to the company.
You are not going to have a variety of body shapes (or hair styles that can be distracting during a classical performance) at a premier ballet company. Bolshoi is notorious with that, no doubt. But I don't get the Clone Army. I can easily tell the dancers apart - they have different styles, techniques and personalities. It's not So You Think You Can Dance, it really isn't. Nor is it a local dance company.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
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2,179
Completely off topic I know, but when I saw the Bolshoi it was a big disappointment. I love ballet a lot and was expecting big things, but I just felt nothing and it was a performance totally lacking in spark. I just don't know what was going on. Maybe I got them on a bad day. No idea. It was confusing to me, as I wasn't expecting that. Anyway. Very off topic!!!
 

antmanb

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Messages
9,865
The panel doesn't record the number of rotations attempted; it records the number of rotations accomplished. Still, if Tennell rotated just over two and a half times, the jump was a 3T<<, not a 2T.
That's not actually true - the technical panel handbook is pretty clear (underlining is my own not in the handbook): https://isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/17594-tp-handbook-singles-2018-19/file

"The TP must call the attempted jump even if it is clear that it is under-rotated or will be downgraded"

Later in the same document:

"If a jump is over-rotated by more than a quarter revolution, it is called as the jump with the higher revolution"
 

puglover

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,958
My favorite female skater of all time is Irina Slutskaya because I loved the height and power of her jumps. There is a sound the blade makes when it lands after a jump like that has never failed to thrill me. I hope we do not become so enthralled by tiny girls with quick rotations that it is the only factor for success.
 

nlloyd

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Messages
974
Sambo-70 is not a democratic “y’all come” melting pot. Neither are the elite ballet academies in Russia, like the Vaganova. Trainees are selected, in part, based on genetics, facial beauty, family bone structures, etc. Such systems produce results. Deal with it.
If this documentary is to be believed - and it is somewhat odd (weird first person narration, among other things) - the Vaganova Academy's focus on weight is very problematic. See 13:55 onward, for example.
 

Tinami Amori

Registered User
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19,072
I saw the Bolshoi Ballet recently and it was like Attack of the Clone Army. Everyone looked identical and had the same hair cuts too. Worked great for matching lines during group numbers, but it was difficult to tell the individual dancers apart. Makes sense that they were all selected to be very similar.

Completely different to our local ballet company which is a melting pot of different ethnicities, body shapes, personalities (and hair styles lol). Much prefer this actually - adds a bit more spark to the company.
Corps de ballet (in ballet) and several other dance styles are not about "social justice" or "politics". They are not United Nations. They have history and requirements for their dancers. Dancers have to be well matched.

It does not matter what ethnicity they are, as long as they physically match. "Uniformity" of the dancers and their movements is part of the aesthetics of such dance performances.

It is a requirement in best Flamenco shows....

Indian ritual dances...

Japanese and practically every Asian Folk Dances...

Georgian Lezginkas..

and yes, Russian Ballet, because it is part of Russian Ballet culture...

I wish people took their political correctness and put it where the sun does not shine.... :D
 

Tinami Amori

Registered User
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19,072
Correct. And I would like to see the staunch defenders of everything Tutberidze does and everyone she coaches acknowledge the repeated evidence that her skaters are getting:
-praised for not eating solid foods (Lipnitskaia)
-warned not to drink water (Zagitova, etc.)
-praised for subsisting on almost no food (Shcherbakova)
-unnaturally skinny because they don't eat enough (Medvedeva said this about her and Zagitova)
  • no food for Shcherbakova is a lie! TSL said "some coach told me she has to weight 38 kg". Well, some coach told me "she does not have to weight 38 kg, she is naturally thin". My word against his..... and i follow their group very close, and have people connected to the group giving me info. If you're not "against Eteri's girls" then take my version, i know more than TSL..... :D
  • not eating solid food is Lip's mother's choice of diet. Lip had digestive and food related issues from birth.
  • Not drinking water before a skate is also practiced NOW by the Orser's girl - Kurakova. I posted her interview where she said it, as well as "eating very little food and water" in general.
  • Med. never said EVER they don't eat enough. On the contrary, in one of the TV videos she laughed and ridiculed "those stupid people who think that Eteri abuses them" (I posted those links many times). She is now THINNER than she was before, because of her new diet, and has less power as we all see.
At present the ones with eating issues and image issues are GG and GD... who live in a wonderful North America, and train with North American coaches... ;)

Eteri's girls winning everything, and yes, i believe people resent it and are jealous. Why? because most of the "accusations" are either Lies, or Gossips, or Assumptions. That's a tactic used when you can't beat your object by the rules. Make up a lie and keep repeating....
 
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