2019 SkAm Ladies FS - Waking Up In Vegas

Polaris

Well-Known Member
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942
That
Zagitova, Kostornaia and Trusova all look like they eat to me. If Tutberidze really encourages disordered eating, as I have seen in so many claims, I don't see specific evidence of it based on how these look. People are also posting rumors and taking some quotes out of proportion. It is just suspect when we see more of these conversations in regards to Tutberidze's skaters and not others like Daleman for example..So yes, that's why the motivation behind these posts is just a little suspect to me...
That is quite a few quotes to take out of Proportion. At this point, you could have a video of Eteri suppressing skaters diets and people here would still find an excuse. Med pretty much came out without explicitly saying that there was disordered eating going on.

Daleman is one data points. If TCC started having multiple data points, then I would be concerned too.
 

starrynight

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2,177
Scherbakova has the same body type as Katia Gordeeva. And we all know what Katia looks like at 48 yo. I highly doubt that Gordeeva is on a restrictive diet. She's just genetically blessed.
I must say that when Gordeeva was very young she did not have a great diet at all. At the 1988 Olympics the other skaters would tease her for not eating because she used to only eat one meal a day and that was a single piece of cheesecake. There's plenty of information out there about the really restrictive diet Gordeeva used to keep.
 

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
942
When Kaori skated her spiral in front of the judges with her leg raised, all I could see was a dog lifting a leg on a tree marking it’s territory. Not a good mental image....:unsure:
I saw it as her trying to slice the judges heads off.
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
Messages
11,804
Ah, so the “throw a Krispy Kreme donut at Scherbakoba” poster later complained that she was rewarded with too-high PCS! ROTFL!
Folks, no truly-undernourished athlete could achieve what she did last night.
 
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starrynight

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2,177
Although a good example of a skater who seemed to have a really late puberty and turned out normal pretty quickly was Elena Radionova. She was also extremely small in that 2014/2015 season.

I think Eteri has deliberately selected very late bloomers and then helped that along with a lot of exercise - hence here having a couple of girls that seem physically 4 or 5 years younger than their actual birth ages. If Anna had the biology of a regular almost 16 year old and looked like that after puberty it would be extremely concerning - but I think that physically she hasn't developed beyond a child's body yet - hence why she is so small.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
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3,647
Why does it matter what motivates a poster? Either that poster has a point or the poster does not, and their motivation is irrelevant. One can be a hater and still be right; why not focus on what is said, which is right there, and leave mind reading to the fortune tellers?

But if you must pretend that you can read minds and hearts via posts on the web, why not assume the best and think people are genuinely concerned We are all fans, after all.
Motivation is not irrelevant since it affects someone's ability to make points that do not smell of bias. It's not really fortune telling...
 

Prancer

Needs More Sleep
Staff member
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49,708
Motivation is not irrelevant since it affects someone's ability to make points that do not smell of bias. It's not really fortune telling...
And you see no irony in making assumptions about people based on a few anonymous posts.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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62,205
Although a good example of a skater who seemed to have a really late puberty and turned out normal pretty quickly was Elena Radionova. She was also extremely small in that 2014/2015 season.

I think Eteri has deliberately selected very late bloomers and then helped that along with a lot of exercise - hence here having a couple of girls that seem physically 4 or 5 years younger than their actual birth ages. If Anna had the biology of a regular almost 16 year old and looked like that after puberty it would be extremely concerning - but I think that physically she hasn't developed beyond a child's body yet - hence why she is so small.
And, the fact her mother still has a child's body after having three kids. :lol: Her mother actually looks like a marathon runner who has zero body fat. That's what these kids don't have. And, it is very often the case if a woman wants to see what her body will look like when she's in her 30s, look at your mother and grandmother.
 

Aerobicidal

Inspired by Selections
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10,614
Zagitova, Kostornaia and Trusova all look like they eat to me. If Tutberidze really encourages disordered eating, as I have seen in so many claims, I don't see specific evidence of it based on how these look. People are also posting rumors and taking some quotes out of proportion. It is just suspect when we see more of these conversations in regards to Tutberidze's skaters and not others like Daleman for example..So yes, that's why the motivation behind these posts is just a little suspect to me...
The evidence is not based on how they look. Unless someone here is a world famous nutritionist or eating disorder expert, their opinion on whether a skater looks like they eat, looks healthy, or looks like they engage in disordered eating means almost nothing to me. That includes my own opinion.

As far as taking quotes out of proportion, I would need a specific example of that to be able to evaluate what you're saying.

I don't agree that it's "suspect" that people talk about Eteri's skaters more than Daleman. People here did talk about Daleman's physical and mental health. But Eteri has, quite possibly, the top four if not five ladies skaters in the world right now and the smoking guns coming out of Sambo are producing roughly the amount of smoke as an all you can eat barbecue in Hell, so I think it's understandable.

Finally, and this should go without saying but I'll say it anyway: The way a handful of hardcore Eteri fans viciously go after anyone who doesn't love 4A, calling them haters and jealous and not capable of just enjoying the sport, doesn't exactly make me want to shut up and concede the discourse. They can certainly ignore me, but this is a complicated issue with multiple valid perspectives and their adversarial anger lends absolutely nothing to the discussion--in my perhaps not so humble opinion.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,647
The evidence is not based on how they look. Unless someone here is a world famous nutritionist or eating disorder expert, their opinion on whether a skater looks like they eat, looks healthy, or looks like they engage in disordered eating means almost nothing to me. That includes my own opinion.
Well that really makes a lot of sense... not.

I think you have hinted in the past that Shcherbakova is being starved ( or you could read that between the lines). What is this based on? Lipnitskaya and some quotes in the press? So we can make assumptions about that?



As far as taking quotes out of proportion, I would need a specific example of that to be able to evaluate what you're saying.
I would need to go and dig up Russisn interviews but suffice it to say, things frequently get misinterpreted in translation...

I don't agree that it's "suspect" that people talk about Eteri's skaters more than Daleman. People here did talk about Daleman's physical and mental health. But Eteri has, quite possibly, the top four if not five ladies skaters in the world right now and the smoking guns coming out of Sambo are producing roughly the amount of smoke as an all you can eat barbecue in Hell, so I think it's understandable.
So people talk more about Eteri because she has 4-5 top skaters? Ok. Thanks for confirming that her success may have some impact on how much criticism she gets

Finally, and this should go without saying but I'll say it anyway: The way a handful of hardcore Eteri fans viciously go after anyone who doesn't love 4A, calling them haters and jealous and not capable of just enjoying the sport, doesn't exactly make me want to shut up and concede the discourse. They can certainly ignore me, but this is a complicated issue with multiple valid perspectives and their adversarial anger lends absolutely nothing to the discussion--in my perhaps not so humble opinion.
I will just tell you that I have seen the same people who accuse Eteri of encouraging eating disorders (not you necessarily) also make negative comments about her skaters programs ( which may be valid), the crappy Eteri technique, her skaters getting wildly overscored. There may be some valid criticisms, but you will forgive me if I then don't take claims that Eteri starves her students especially seriously when quite a few of them come from the same people literally talk shit about anything related to her school or skaters.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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27,512
So people talk more about Eteri because she has 4-5 top skaters? Ok. Thanks for confirming that her success may have some impact on how much criticism she gets
No. She is being criticized because her skaters have similar body types, not the usual range of shapes you would see among athletes that age, and because of the multiple reports about how she allegedly encourages those skaters to eat (or not eat).
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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62,205
Why does it matter what motivates a poster? Either that poster has a point or the poster does not, and their motivation is irrelevant. One can be a hater and still be right; why not focus on what is said, which is right there, and leave mind reading to the fortune tellers?

But if you must pretend that you can read minds and hearts via posts on the web, why not assume the best and think people are genuinely concerned? We are all fans, after all.
By that same token, why not assume someone can be a fan of a skater and that said fandom is not an endorsement for anything other than appreciating what the skater is capable of doing, regardless of their country of origin, coach or choreographer.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

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2,130
I must say that when Gordeeva was very young she did not have a great diet at all. At the 1988 Olympics the other skaters would tease her for not eating because she used to only eat one meal a day and that was a single piece of cheesecake. There's plenty of information out there about the really restrictive diet Gordeeva used to keep.
I am sure. But regardless of her diet, she'd look the same. Recently saw Katia and her boyfriend at a restaurant, enjoying a very normal meal + desert. And she's still tiny and extremely fit.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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62,205
No. She is being criticized because her skaters have similar body types, not the usual range of shapes you would see among athletes that age, and because of the multiple reports about how she allegedly encourages those skaters to eat (or not eat).
I suspect she does select a body type when admitting students to her program. Many, many skaters audition for admission to their school. Many are rejected. Skaters acknowledge admission to the Sambo-70 school is highly selective. They essentially audition for spots. Mishin did exactly the same thing for years. I'm sure there are a number of criteria they look for in admitting a skater to the program and body type is one of them. Unlike Canada or the US, the Russians and Chinese, for that matter, don't take any skater who can afford to pay. Raf has discussed this many, many times. It's something he finds very difficult about his own situation. He has to take skaters to pay the bills that he ordinarily would not. Consequently, over time, the selective process produces similar skaters with similar results.
 
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Prancer

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By that same token, why not assume someone can be a fan of a skater and that said fandom is not an endorsement for anything other than appreciating what the skater is capable of doing, regardless of their country of origin, coach or choreographer.
Okay.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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27,512
I suspect she does select a body type when admitting students to her program. Many, many skaters audition for admission to their school. Many are rejected. Skaters acknowledge admission to the Sambo-70 school is highly selective. They essentially audition for spots. Mishin did exactly the same thing for years. Unlike Canada or the US, the Russians and Chinese, for that matter, don't take any skater who can afford to pay.
I get the distinction you are making, but there are also top US and Canadian coaches that can afford to be selective about who they coach, and don't have to take any skater that comes along. And there have also been top North American coaches who also controlled how their skaters were expected to eat, if they wanted to keep training there, as we sadly now know about Richard Callaghan.
 

Nell411

Between the click of the light
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2,949
I'm going to be honest, I'm probably always going to be a little worried about the girls Eteri coaches because of the extent that we've heard about them having possible disordered eating issues. If they don't then good, I'm glad. If they do then I hope they can find the support system to help them get better. Now having seen pictures of Shcherbakova I will admit to being less worried than I was when I had only seen her on my TV screen. She does look healthy and I am glad. But it's like @Aerobicidal said, there's too much smoke for there to not be some sort of fire. Maybe it's not all of them, I can definitely see family pressure contributing. I had no idea Lipnitskaya's eating disorder was due to pressure from her mother for instance. But in general, I low key worry about young ladies in the sport because we've been hearing more and more about disordered eating regardless of what country they are from.

In happier news, someone I follow on Twitter and Instagram who I had never seen post about figure skating before posted about watching the Ladies Free Skate and absolutely loved Anna Shcherbakova's free skate and costume change. She expressed her enthusiasm for the program in general very enthusiastically. It was fun.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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28,796
You know how you can love, say, Judy Garland, while at the same time being upset about the way she was treated as a girl by those in charge of her? You can do the same thing with skaters.
 

puglover

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1,958
My experiences says that it is not uncommon for teens to react to the stress, social pressures, body changes associated with adolescence with a certain amount of disordered eating. Some may restrict a bit much, others overeat, and some try out weird fads and select foods they earlier enjoyed but now won't touch because of something they heard or read (one of my daughters and cheese). For most, this passes without any lasting negative affects. It may be hard to know if this is just a stage or the beginning of a very serious illness. Hence, the need for caring people to be vigilant and ask the tough questions.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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"Being skinny doesn’t mean an eating disorder", "people are jealous because the skaters are successful", "the skaters wouldn't stay with the coach if they weren't being treated well" - those can all be true, but they are also the kind of reasoning that let Richard Callaghan get away with abuse for 20+ years.

@puglover is right. People need to be vigilant and to ask the hard questions, especially for young athletes who may suffer long-term health problems, or who may not feel they have the voice or the power to stop abuse if it happens to them. If a coach is not being abusive they shouldn't have any issues with having their training methods reviewed.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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27,512
And to add to what @Nell411 said about hearing about disordered eating from young skaters, we also shouldn't forget that we are hearing mostly from elite athletes, or former elite athletes. There may be many, many more skaters who never get to Nationals, internationals, or even regionals or sectionals, but who also had abusive treatment from coaches or other adults in the sport.
 

Carolla5501

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5,924
Unrelated to eating disorders. I was unable to stay for ladies FS last night (I had been feeling bad all day and by the end of Dance I was done). Now that I’ve watched the programs I Hate I missed Bradie’s program. It looks like she’s really upped her game this year.
 

Vagabond

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Bradie Tennell FS

I have watched the second triple lutz combination in slow motion, and I have to say that it looks to my less-than-expert eye that she enters facing forward into the planned triple toe loop (at about 3:07) and does not get all the way around to face forward when she lands. In other words, I think she does about two-and-two-fifths rotations, which should be marked as an overrotated double toe loop, rather than two and and half rotations, which would be a downgraded triple toe loop.

Yet I have seen posts here on FSU suggesting that she did a triple toe loop, albeit one that possibly should have been downgraded. Am I missing something?
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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2,976
Bradie Tennell FS

I have watched the second triple lutz combination in slow motion, and I have to say that it looks to my less-than-expert eye that she enters facing forward into the planned triple toe loop (at about 3:07) and does not get all the way around to face forward when she lands. In other words, I think she does about two-and-two-fifths rotations, which should be marked as an overrotated double toe loop, rather than two and and half rotations, which would be a downgraded triple toe loop.

Yet I have seen posts here on FSU suggesting that she did a triple toe loop, albeit one that possibly should have been downgraded. Am I missing something?
It is definitely a triple attempt. It is pretty clear even in that poor quality video. It was even clearer that it was a triple on NBC Sports. Even if she prerotated they should have given it a downgrade but should have not been called a clean double.
 

Tony Wheeler

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Every once in a long while, there is a completely wrong call. At US Nationals either last year or the year before, a senior man attempted a 3A and it was called a 2A, and I actually really believe that Lipinski and Weir’s interrogation into it was the reason they even went back and changed it. Crazy it can even happen.
 

Tony Wheeler

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Adding to previous post- there was a Canadian Nationals around 2013 where Alaine Chartrand wasn’t given proper credit for a jump sequence IIRC under the newer rules, and it was because Skate Canada hadn’t updated their software with the rules that had been used that entire season. Amelie Lacoste initially won the bronze medal, Chartrand’s team questioned the call within the allotted time, and while Lacoste was waiting near the ice for the medal ceremony, she was told the result actually changed in Chartrand’s favor and she had no longer won a medal.
 

AnnM

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623
Scherbakova has the same body type as Katia Gordeeva. And we all know what Katia looks like at 48 yo. I highly doubt that Gordeeva is on a restrictive diet. She's just genetically blessed.
I saw Scherbokova skate the FP live yesterday and saw the tv coverage this morning. Her appearance on tv really downplays how fragile-ly thin she is in real life.
 

AnnM

Well-Known Member
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623
Unrelated to eating disorders. I was unable to stay for ladies FS last night (I had been feeling bad all day and by the end of Dance I was done). Now that I’ve watched the programs I Hate I missed Bradie’s program. It looks like she’s really upped her game this year.
I have to admit that as much as I disliked Bradie during the Cinderella era, I really like her programs for this season and appreciate her efforts to push herself out of her comfort zone.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,734
Love Tuktamysheva, and happy she'll get a medal, but she was lucky other skaters made errors.
She made some error and so did the others.

Had everybody skated perfectly, Tuktamysheva would have gotten silver or bronze, depending on the judging panel.

For what its worth, Bradie is my new fridge break.
 

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