‘It’s a nightmare’ – Russian figure skating icon Slutskaya on ‘unusual’ men’s rhythmic gymnastics

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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8,103
I read all the comments and then clicked on the link. Based on the comments, I was expecting something completely different. The main costume looked like he could be an extra in The Lion King on Broadway. I don't see anything inappropriate about it as all his private parts were covered. I liked it. Now that other costume you see if you scroll down a bit was horrible. It looked like he was wearing a diaper! He needs to get a better costume designer/seamstress, stat!

And Slute's comments were ridiculous. Ribbons aren't feminine. They are just ribbons. Men get birthday packages with ribbons on them all the time. It doesn't impact their masculinity in any way. The same with saying it's okay to dress like that for the ballet but not for RG. Her comments boiled down to "this makes me uncomfortable because it's not what I am used to so it must be wrong."
How petit bourgeois of her. The next thing you know she'll be seen eating hamburgers while feeding chickens, all to the tune of that Russian classic "Cotton-Eyed Joe".
 

Debdelilah2

Member
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41
The Japanese version of mens rhythmic seems so different from the rhythmic already at the Olympics that they should adopt it as a new discipline and try to attract a women’s division for that style of RG as well.
They shouldn’t have trouble attracting women - the Japanese style was for both men and women when it was invented, according to the articles linked earlier in the thread. The women’s style changed over time to match what was being done internationally.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
969
First off, I didn't call it a different "sport". I called it a different "discipline". There's a big difference and if you want to get pedantic, then make sure you quote me right. Rhythmic Gymnastics as practiced in the Olympics and that has kept up to "international standards" are the ones people think about - with a specific set of apparatuses and no tumbling runs. The videos of the Japanese-style mens gymnastics that I did watch, and in my original post I said I watched, show men doing tumbling passes and more moves with saltos and multi-saltos. You casually say "just add tumbling and it'll be the same", but that's just it. They don't have it and it's not so simple to "start including tumbling". I bet many RG aficionados and officials who are more traditional would argue against it with everything that they have because they believe in the distinctiveness of that discipline.
I'm not trying to get pedantic. From what I'm reading, "Japanese style RG" is being considered a different sport to "Traditional RG" - with men and women both participating in gender-segregated disciplines in two different sports. Japanese style RG being separated will not just be a different discipline anymore - unlike men's discipline and women's discipline in the same sport. These are my definitions for clarity.

And, no, changing the code is not so simple, but that has little to do with what I'm saying. The Japanese style being thought of as being "too different" and forcing them to conform to some European "traditional" style isn't so brilliant, especially when the Japanese women already had to change to the "traditional" style. You don't even have to change the code for it, it can just be different choreography with no credit for the jumps. These styles can coexist under the same men's RG. Why exactly can they not? And why is it so amazing to not include an international outlook into the men's RG, especially when we're discussing its inclusion into the Olympics? If the Europeans want to clutch their pearls at it, they can get over it, especially when it's a Russian speaking against Benitez in the first place.

But if I misunderstood, then I'll let it go. I still don't want RG in the Olympics at all, no matter which style, and which gender.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
818
No one has been stopped from having an opinion. And if your views are really strong, you shouldn't need everyone to like them.
Unfortunately we are in a time where people don't like your opinion you can get canceled. Maybe not in Russia but at least here in America. Strange.

Irina never holds back her opinions nor should she. But she is long retired and a mother of 3 and a big star in Russia so she needs to be more thoughtful in what she says. But if it hasn't happened by now it probably wont.

The question is is Irina the greatest Russian lady skater of all time or is it Alina or Evgenia?
We will have another contender after the Olympics. ;)

One thing is for sure Irina is not the most subtle Is Russian lady figure skater ever. Like her I don't like men's rhythmic gymnastics either or maybe we just have to get used to it. But I would have been more subtle with my words than she was.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,468
Unfortunately we are in a time where people don't like your opinion you can get canceled. Maybe not in Russia but at least here in America. Strange.

Irina never holds back her opinions nor should she. But she is long retired and a mother of 3 and a big star in Russia so she needs to be more thoughtful in what she says. But if it hasn't happened by now it probably wont.

The question is is Irina the greatest Russian lady skater of all time or is it Alina or Evgenia?
We will have another contender after the Olympics. ;)

One thing is for sure Irina is not the most subtle Is Russian lady figure skater ever. Like her I don't like men's rhythmic gymnastics either or maybe we just have to get used to it. But I would have been more subtle with my words than she was.
I wonder if cancel culture really exists because most famous people who get canceled come back after a year or so and they still have their careers. Only in egregious examples is there a permanent mark and those examples are situations in which there is usually something beyond canceling happening like a criminal conviction aka people would have stayed away from that person once they found out what they did before the advent of “cancel culture”.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
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818
I wonder if cancel culture really exists because most famous people who get canceled come back after a year or so and they still have their careers. Only in egregious examples is there a permanent mark and those examples are situations in which there is usually something beyond canceling happening like a criminal conviction aka people would have stayed away from that person once they found out what they did before the advent of “cancel culture”.
I think people are catching on to cancel culture and like you said it might not be so permanent in some cases.
 

VGThuy

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38,468
I think people are catching on to cancel culture and like you said it might not be so permanent in some cases.
I think they are and they're getting tired of mob justice. No matter how justified the initial anger was - people aren't liking that way many people who aren't involved are just jumping in and being performative. Many don't even know the facts anymore and adopt tall tales that they read on social media. I still there there's still such a thing as "people power" but it shouldn't look like what we get on Twitter and other areas of the Internet. I also think people are realizing not all harm should result in permanent shunning and exiling. Retributive justice is so limiting in terms of solving any actual problems. It does get complicated if someone won't take responsibility for hurting others but that's life, right? People should just move on after a while and be productive.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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17,786
Is there a list of public figures who have had their careers completely ended due to expressing either "bad" opinions or being racist, cruel or wildly inappropriate? Only person I can think of is Michael Richards (Kramer from Seinfeld).

I mean, Jeffrey Toobin is back on CNN...smh.
 

VGThuy

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38,468
Is there a list of public figures who have had their careers completely ended due to expressing either "bad" opinions or being racist, cruel or wildly inappropriate? Only person I can think of is Michael Richards (Kramer from Seinfeld).

I mean, Jeffrey Toobin is back on CNN...smh.
And let's be honest, Michael Richards didn't have much of a career post-Seinfeld and when all of that was happened. There was so much talk about the "Seinfeld curse" at the time and it seems only Julia Louise-Dreyfus seemed to escape it.
 

sap5

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10,252
I wonder if cancel culture really exists because most famous people who get canceled come back after a year or so and they still have their careers. Only in egregious examples is there a permanent mark and those examples are situations in which there is usually something beyond canceling happening like a criminal conviction aka people would have stayed away from that person once they found out what they did before the advent of “cancel culture”.
IME, "cancelling" is usually used as an excuse by mobs on twitter/social media to dump on a person without feeling bad about it. Whether the person truly deserves to be cancelled or not is irrelevant. While there are times when a person has truly behaved in an awful way, I also see people just jumping to conclusions about someone based off of one thing and then going wild.
 

Lemonade20

If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
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2,351
Is there a list of public figures who have had their careers completely ended due to expressing either "bad" opinions or being racist, cruel or wildly inappropriate? Only person I can think of is Michael Richards (Kramer from Seinfeld).

I mean, Jeffrey Toobin is back on CNN...smh.
Chris Harrison comes to mind, his career ended because he defended something he didn't fully understand. Christy Tiegen never really got canceled, but people did give her hell when they learned about her "mean girl days".
 

attyfan

Well-Known Member
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8,955
IMO, "cancel culture" is a term saying that it is OK for people to offend me -- because they are exercising their free speech -- but I don't have the right to exercise my free speech by boycotting, criticizing, etc. Irina has the right to criticize RG ... and fans of RG have the right to criticize Irina.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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17,786
Re: Chris Harrison, will someone please cancel me with a $10 million settlement package?

I think "cancel" means different things to different people. I tend to associate people decrying 'cancel culture' with people who want to live without consequences.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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12,425
I wonder if cancel culture really exists because most famous people who get canceled come back after a year or so and they still have their careers. Only in egregious examples is there a permanent mark and those examples are situations in which there is usually something beyond canceling happening like a criminal conviction aka people would have stayed away from that person once they found out what they did before the advent of “cancel culture”.
They may come back, but it still doesn’t mean that their career wasn’t affected negatively. It still took some effort and lost opportunities before they picked themselves up. So I would say it exist. Even if it doesn't ‘cancel’ you permanently, it still means they temporary lost working opportunities which can be financially costly.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
818
I think they are and they're getting tired of mob justice. No matter how justified the initial anger was - people aren't liking that way many people who aren't involved are just jumping in and being performative. Many don't even know the facts anymore and adopt tall tales that they read on social media. I still there there's still such a thing as "people power" but it shouldn't look like what we get on Twitter and other areas of the Internet. I also think people are realizing not all harm should result in permanent shunning and exiling. Retributive justice is so limiting in terms of solving any actual problems. It does get complicated if someone won't take responsibility for hurting others but that's life, right? People should just move on after a while and be productive.
Like you pointed out many people don't know the facts yet they join the mob. It's just craziness and trying to be on the right side of history. Well the right side of history should be the facts that determine something.

If that kid is found not guilty as he probably will be in Wisconsin will there be rioting again? If you listen to the facts andI eyewitnesses he will probably be found not guilty.

Good point about retrobutive justice not working.. In fact in many cases it's harmful. I mean lebron James came out and made fun of this kid crying in the court yesterday and then James got ripped for doing so. Why would this Mega maniac megastar with 50 million plus followers on social media feel the need to come out and come out and humiliate this kid in front of his followers?

They will never be a cure for social media indoctrination.

I think social media indoctrination and addictions have made people non productive or less productive than they used to be.

As for Irina I don't think she will ever become more diplomatic. That's OK I guess. But it will cause her to give harsh statements once in a while and get people angry at her.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
38,468
Like you pointed out many people don't know the facts yet they join the mob. It's just craziness and trying to be on the right side of history. Well the right side of history should be the facts that determine something.

If that kid is found not guilty as he probably will be in Wisconsin will there be rioting again? If you listen to the facts andI eyewitnesses he will probably be found not guilty.

Good point about retrobutive justice not working.. In fact in many cases it's harmful. I mean lebron James came out and made fun of this kid crying in the court yesterday and then James got ripped for doing so. Why would this Mega maniac megastar with 50 million plus followers on social media feel the need to come out and come out and humiliate this kid in front of his followers?

They will never be a cure for social media indoctrination.

I think social media indoctrination and addictions have made people non productive or less productive than they used to be.

As for Irina I don't think she will ever become more diplomatic. That's OK I guess. But it will cause her to give harsh statements once in a while and get people angry at her.
Well, I don't really want to apply the Kyle Rittenhouse case to what I said because I don't really agree with that. But I get your spirit and I do think there's a lot of bandwagoning going on on BOTH sides.
 

muffinplus

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4,308
Slutskaya isn’t exactly well liked judging from some Russian comments given her involvement in politics
 

soogar

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3,097
yes, they want to include a men's discipline but russia and japan are lobbying
to use Japan's mens rhyhtmic gymnastics version in counterpart to the womens, they are against having a men's rhythmic with the same elements and codes like the womens
I agree with that. I know "gender fluid" is supposed to be a thing, but men can be graceful and still look like men out there. Looking at that program, it's so over the top, men's ballet doesn't even look like that.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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12,725
I agree with that. I know "gender fluid" is supposed to be a thing, but men can be graceful and still look like men out there. Looking at that program, it's so over the top, men's ballet doesn't even look like that.
:rolleyes: Comments in this thread continue to baffle me. We are all figure skating fans, most of us have learned to appreciate all the different ways of expressing oneself that we get to experience in skating. We've seen male skaters on all parts of the spectrum: some that skate with not one ounce of grace or polish (oh, so masculine....) and others who are absolute masters at their presentation, their body lines, and emoting in a very strong way. We've seen skaters on the women's side who haven't taken a day of ballet and power through every movement. But there's been a place for everyone in the sport and we've seen a little bit of every style rise to the top across the decades.

What does 'looking like a man' even mean? You sound as ignorant as the non-skating fans who think the ENTIRE mens competition is extremely 'gay', regardless of how they skate.
 

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