‘It’s a nightmare’ – Russian figure skating icon Slutskaya on ‘unusual’ men’s rhythmic gymnastics

becca

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yes, they want to include a men's discipline but russia and japan are lobbying
to use Japan's mens rhyhtmic gymnastics version in counterpart to the womens, they are against having a men's rhythmic with the same elements and codes like the womens
Personally I think the Japanese one is cooler. And will probably attract far more men. Due to the martial arts and stuff
 
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becca

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The Japanese version of mens rhythmic seems so different from the rhythmic already at the Olympics that they should adopt it as a new discipline and try to attract a women’s division for that style of RG as well.
One could argue that men’s artistic gymnastics is different than women’s. Once again I think the Japanese version with martial arts etc would attract more men
 

love_skate2011

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The Japanese version of mens rhythmic seems so different from the rhythmic already at the Olympics that they should adopt it as a new discipline and try to attract a women’s division for that style of RG as well.
One could argue that men’s artistic gymnastics is different than women’s. Once again I think the Japanese version with martial arts etc would attract more men
it is a mixture of acrobatics and tumbling, gymnastics and apparatus. Im fine with it being used for the men's version.
Do you really think the Olympics will adopt the men from the women's version. Think of the mockery the sport will get , the women get laughed at for the ribbon is enough.
 

VGThuy

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One could argue that men’s artistic gymnastics is different than women’s. Once again I think the Japanese version with martial arts etc would attract more men
Right but just because they do it doesn’t mean this one has to follow suit. There really is no reason in this day in age to discourage more participation for women into a totally different discipline of gymnastic. A great number of women already participate in martial arts, acrobatics, and parkour not to mention many extreme sports.

And if men want to participate in sports like synchronized swimming and traditional RG, those sports should seek more participation and look into creating a mens division.
 

becca

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Right but just because they do it doesn’t mean this one has to follow suit. There really is no reason in this day in age to discourage more participation for women into a totally different discipline of gymnastic. A great number of women already participate in martial arts, acrobatics, and parkour not to mention many extreme sports.
Well yes I am not saying women might not like the Japanese version better to but I think most men would prefer the Japanese version
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

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And if men want to participate in sports like synchronized swimming and traditional RG, those sports should seek more participation and look into creating a mens division.
What is "traditional" RG? Is there a rule against tumbling and martial arts in the choreography currently?
 

VGThuy

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What is "traditional" RG? Is there a rule against tumbling and martial arts in the choreography currently?
Well people are already talking about the Japanese mens RG being a totally different discipline from the RG included in the Olympics and from the videos they do look very different so I am following suit. I didn’t make up the terms or the differences.

Well yes I am not saying women might not like the Japanese version better to but I think most men would prefer the Japanese version
Ok but that doesn’t answer the question as to why they shouldn’t be encouraged to create a womens division as well. Again, a lot of women participate in martial arts and acrobatics and tumbling. I think the more sports created for men and women the better. My original post was about if they are thinking about including the Japanese version, I’d like that sport to make a good faith effort in creating a womens division just like I think RG and synchronized swimming should make an effort to be inclusive to men.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

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Well people are already talking about the Japanese mens RG being a totally different discipline from the RG included in the Olympics and from the videos they do look very different so I am following suit.
You should watch it then. It has different apparatus and different choreography - but the idea is the same. Choreography around an apparatus. Different apparatus doesn't mean a different sport. Men tend to move differently than women even in figure skating - choreography emphasizing that difference doesn't make it a "different" sport. Japanese men drawing from their own culture and including martial arts doesn't somehow transform what they did into a "different" sport either, it's called "growth". Benitez won't be participating in the "traditional" RG just because he has a ribbon in his hand. He can instead use a rope. He doesn't include tumbling, but if those have points in the code, you can bet he will.

You start including tumbling in the women's code, and they will too. No need to do it, however, since there's no need to transform it into the amorphous amoeba that skating has become now. Still not a "different sport".

Ultimately, Olympic sports are a business. IF men's RG is to become an Olympic discipline, the code that attracts most viewers will be chosen. However, there's no need to include more controversial judging to the Olympics. I'd like them to go the opposite direction, and start removing these sports.
 

VGThuy

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You should watch it then. It has different apparatus and different choreography - but the idea is the same. Choreography around an apparatus. Different apparatus doesn't mean a different sport. Men tend to move differently than women even in figure skating - choreography emphasizing that difference doesn't make it a "different" sport. Japanese men drawing from their own culture and including martial arts doesn't somehow transform what they did into a "different" sport either, it's called "growth". Benitez won't be participating in the "traditional" RG just because he has a ribbon in his hand. He can instead use a rope. He doesn't include tumbling, but if those have points in the code, you can bet he will.

You start including tumbling in the women's code, and they will too. No need to do it, however, since there's no need to transform it into the amorphous amoeba that skating has become now. Still not a "different sport".

Ultimately, Olympic sports are a business. IF men's RG is to become an Olympic discipline, the code that attracts most viewers will be chosen. However, there's no need to include more controversial judging to the Olympics. I'd like them to go the opposite direction, and start removing these sports.
First off, I didn't call it a different "sport". I called it a different "discipline". There's a big difference and if you want to get pedantic, then make sure you quote me right. Rhythmic Gymnastics as practiced in the Olympics and that has kept up to "international standards" are the ones people think about - with a specific set of apparatuses and no tumbling runs. The videos of the Japanese-style mens gymnastics that I did watch, and in my original post I said I watched, show men doing tumbling passes and more moves with saltos and multi-saltos. You casually say "just add tumbling and it'll be the same", but that's just it. They don't have it and it's not so simple to "start including tumbling". I bet many RG aficionados and officials who are more traditional would argue against it with everything that they have because they believe in the distinctiveness of that discipline.

I think that in of itself makes it different enough to call it a different discipline the way pairs skating is a different discipline from ice dance despite so many shared qualities. The way trampoline and tumbling are separated from mens and women's gymnastics.

Me and you can have our differences in opinion, but I do think there can be room for both the rhythmic gymnastics as currently practiced in the Olympics and the more acrobatic style as practiced in Japan that is spreading around. The Spanish mens rhythmic as in the few videos I've seen, seem much more closely aligned to the RG that is currently practiced in the Olympics. The men there seem to want to participate in the sport that is already in the Olympics while the Japanese style diverged into a different entity with shared aspects and even shared apparatuses but with enough different skills and moves and emphasis on those moves in the scoring to argue that it it has different "values" to be its own discipline of gymnastics.

Anyway, you don't want any of it at the Olympics anyway, and none of us have any control over anything, so we'll see what happens. I am afraid that in their journey to seek Olympic accreditation, the Japanese style of RG may start getting corrupted by the FIG but maybe they already have their own issues.
 

Cachoo

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I don't mind men doing rhythmic gymnastics but the costume of this man is gross. Male gymnasts wear shorts. Male rhythmic gymnasts don't Have to wear shorts but I would like to see some restraints on their costumes.
Well that is an easy fix. He can still be spangled and colorful with shorts.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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I don't mind men doing rhythmic gymnastics but the costume of this man is gross. Male gymnasts wear shorts. Male rhythmic gymnasts don't Have to wear shorts but I would like to see some restraints on their costumes.
🙄 Do you watch swimming or diving? Should their dress code be changed?

There’s nothing ‘gross’ about him expressing himself in a way that you’re not used to, and it’s hilarious that you as a Russian skating fan for so many years have a nerve to call this gross IMO. Surely you know how many people used to put down Russian outfitting and choreography for being over the top.

I say let him be happy.
 
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Brenda_Bottems

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incidentally I’m all for bringing back the nude male wrestling in Summer Olympics like they did in the ancient Greek times. #NothingWrongWithThat
I fully understand the allure and excitement of male wrestling,as Mr. Bottems was a successful semi-professional Grecco Roman wrestler in his salad days.

However,nudity and its associated immorality is already so pervasive in today's society—do we want that depravity in the Olympic Games as well?

-BB
 

Brenda_Bottems

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There’s nothing ‘gross’ about him expressing himself in a way that you’re not used to
I do question if he indeed is "expressing himself". Or is this simply a ploy for attention?

Whatever his motivations,I do wish he would "express" himself in garments that are not so grotesquely ill-fitting and make many of us uncomfortable.

-BB
 
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zebraswan

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I can’t imagine what she must think or say when she sees her fellow contemporary Johnny Weir doing figure skating broadcasts then.
They used to be good friends.

It's OK to have a non-PC opinion, but her pearl-clutching dramatics are a bit much...a "nightmare"? OK. She must live a charmed life if men doing RG are that scary.

Yana Kudryavtseva recently responded to Navka's similar comments about men's RG:

Yes, I've read that too. I don't think it's right. We have such a world that in any case it was necessary to be ready for this and somehow accept it. Not to talk about it in an offensive way. I think it was a bit rude.

Lest anyone think that all Russians think the same way...they don't.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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However,nudity and its associated immorality is already so pervasive in today's society—do we want that depravity in the Olympic Games as well?

Yes, because in those days it wasn’t considered trash or scandalous or indecent morale, it was considered a true sport, and Art. And I’m ready to go into full Nelson wrestling pose for this lol
 

becca

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21,358
You should watch it then. It has different apparatus and different choreography - but the idea is the same. Choreography around an apparatus. Different apparatus doesn't mean a different sport. Men tend to move differently than women even in figure skating - choreography emphasizing that difference doesn't make it a "different" sport. Japanese men drawing from their own culture and including martial arts doesn't somehow transform what they did into a "different" sport either, it's called "growth". Benitez won't be participating in the "traditional" RG just because he has a ribbon in his hand. He can instead use a rope. He doesn't include tumbling, but if those have points in the code, you can bet he will.

You start including tumbling in the women's code, and they will too. No need to do it, however, since there's no need to transform it into the amorphous amoeba that skating has become now. Still not a "different sport".

Ultimately, Olympic sports are a business. IF men's RG is to become an Olympic discipline, the code that attracts most viewers will be chosen. However, there's no need to include more controversial judging to the Olympics. I'd like them to go the opposite direction, and start removing these sports.
That’s what no reason to why the women’s code couldn’t encourage martial arts if they
First off, I didn't call it a different "sport". I called it a different "discipline". There's a big difference and if you want to get pedantic, then make sure you quote me right. Rhythmic Gymnastics as practiced in the Olympics and that has kept up to "international standards" are the ones people think about - with a specific set of apparatuses and no tumbling runs. The videos of the Japanese-style mens gymnastics that I did watch, and in my original post I said I watched, show men doing tumbling passes and more moves with saltos and multi-saltos. You casually say "just add tumbling and it'll be the same", but that's just it. They don't have it and it's not so simple to "start including tumbling". I bet many RG aficionados and officials who are more traditional would argue against it with everything that they have because they believe in the distinctiveness of that discipline.

I think that in of itself makes it different enough to call it a different discipline the way pairs skating is a different discipline from ice dance despite so many shared qualities. The way trampoline and tumbling are separated from mens and women's gymnastics.

Me and you can have our differences in opinion, but I do think there can be room for both the rhythmic gymnastics as currently practiced in the Olympics and the more acrobatic style as practiced in Japan that is spreading around. The Spanish mens rhythmic as in the few videos I've seen, seem much more closely aligned to the RG that is currently practiced in the Olympics. The men there seem to want to participate in the sport that is already in the Olympics while the Japanese style diverged into a different entity with shared aspects and even shared apparatuses but with enough different skills and moves and emphasis on those moves in the scoring to argue that it it has different "values" to be its own discipline of gymnastics.

Anyway, you don't want any of it at the Olympics anyway, and none of us have any control over anything, so we'll see what happens. I am afraid that in their journey to seek Olympic accreditation, the Japanese style of RG may start getting corrupted by the FIG but maybe they already have their own issues.
i think a lot of places where traditional RG gymnastics is loved like Russia and Eastern Europe in general are more traditional in general and are the ones who openly advocating the Japanese form for the men..
 

maatTheViking

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There are no reason there should be women only disciplines, and I see no reason why men can't do RG.

That said, if we're talking new gymnastic disciplines I'd rather see Acrobatic Gymnastics. Men's, Women's, Mixed!

I know, IOC will not add that many athletes.
 

ilovesalchows

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I was under the impression the only reason sports like RG and Artistic Swimming were in the Olympics at all was to bring the number of female athletes to par. I always expected as more women compete in events where they didn't have entries we would see sports like RG dropped. This is also why I don't think we will ever see Synchronized Skating added to the Os.
 

tylersf

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I loved Slutskaya when she was competing, but that man's outfit wasn't see through and it was probably prettier than most of her competitive skating costumes. She may be jealous.
Irina would probably look nice in that same outfit the man is wearing.
 

becca

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The only thing I will say here is I think this thread may only cause drama. I think when thinking about a sport or discipline you need to think what is going to appeal to the most people. Female RG was created for female bodies they are different.

Male bodies are different and so shouldn’t the code kind of well recognize. I mean in figure skating there is room for the Rudy Galindos and the Brian Jouberts.

I don’t think the Spanish code there is room for the Jouberts. I think the Japanese code there is more flexibility. If a guy wants to emphase Grace and do some balletic moves he can and the code could have a few things in there.

But it allows for things that would appeal to the Jouberts. I think the Japanese version will appeal to far more men.
 

Panja

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I love these costumes (shown in the article Brenda kindly put into her original post), never mind what anyone is saying. Definitely not a nightmare to me. They're expressive and artistic.

I have no opinion at all about the RG issue in relation to the Olympics (the Japanese approach or another one), except for the notion that there are different men's and women's sports. There shouldn't be. Sports are for everyone. All sports. Having different disciplines seems fine to me though.
 

MacMadame

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I read all the comments and then clicked on the link. Based on the comments, I was expecting something completely different. The main costume looked like he could be an extra in The Lion King on Broadway. I don't see anything inappropriate about it as all his private parts were covered. I liked it. Now that other costume you see if you scroll down a bit was horrible. It looked like he was wearing a diaper! He needs to get a better costume designer/seamstress, stat!

And Slute's comments were ridiculous. Ribbons aren't feminine. They are just ribbons. Men get birthday packages with ribbons on them all the time. It doesn't impact their masculinity in any way. The same with saying it's okay to dress like that for the ballet but not for RG. Her comments boiled down to "this makes me uncomfortable because it's not what I am used to so it must be wrong."
 

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