Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

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skatingguy

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Pretty crazy to think that it is 4 years after December 25th 2021. She could be in Milano if Russia is back....no international competition means no doping tests during that time?
In theory she would be subject to out of competition tests if she wanted to remain eligible for competition, but as @Karen-W said, we don't have much reason to believe that she was being tested as regularly as she should have been prior to the positive test.
 

Debbie S

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Pretty crazy to think that it is 4 years after December 25th 2021. She could be in Milano if Russia is back....no international competition means no doping tests during that time?
According to this article, the ban would start the day of the decision, not the day of the positive test, so that would disqualify Valieva from Milan. Not that she would still be around competing anyway...
 

soogar

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WADA is seeking a 4 year ban for Valieva and to disqualify all of her results from 12/25/21 onward. I hope they get all of it:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1130413/wada-rusada-valieva-case
They really go out of their way to make a scapegoat of this girl. A 15 year old does not decide on her own to take a heart medicine.
I believe minors should be protected. It's also very clear that every single Olympic eligible sport needs an age rule the prevents protected minors from competing at that level if this is how it's going to be abused.
I do too, though I think there are measures in place to protect minors. I have lost respect for the IOC the way they went out of their way to make an example of her with complete disregard for her age. Minors are treated differently because of their age. The IOC as an organization should uphold the rules and regulations with regard to minors and protected person status. Instead, they go out of their way to single her out but withholding the team ceremony and then permit her to compete with the caveat that if she makes the podium, the entire podium will be denied a medal ceremony. I have never heard of this happening in prior Olympics. I believe they made that decision with the expectation that the Russian ladies would sweep the podium. The skateboarding competition had a bunch of 13 year olds competing, and diving 14 year olds. If that organization doesn't understand the concept of confidentiality and protecting a child's interests, then they should just raise the age to 18 across all disciplines and not deal with kids at all.
 

Tesla

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They really go out of their way to make a scapegoat of this girl. A 15 year old does not decide on her own to take a heart medicine.

I do too, though I think there are measures in place to protect minors. I have lost respect for the IOC the way they went out of their way to make an example of her with complete disregard for her age. Minors are treated differently because of their age. The IOC as an organization should uphold the rules and regulations with regard to minors and protected person status. Instead, they go out of their way to single her out but withholding the team ceremony and then permit her to compete with the caveat that if she makes the podium, the entire podium will be denied a medal ceremony. I have never heard of this happening in prior Olympics. I believe they made that decision with the expectation that the Russian ladies would sweep the podium. The skateboarding competition had a bunch of 13 year olds competing, and diving 14 year olds. If that organization doesn't understand the concept of confidentiality and protecting a child's interests, then they should just raise the age to 18 across all disciplines and not deal with kids at all.
Um, the IOC had to let her compete because of the CAS ruling. And didn't the Russian press out Valieva by printing her name (even though everyone knew who it was because of her age)? Blame Russia for this debacle. And she isn't being made a scapegoat. She'd be getting a suspension that someone just a year older would get.
 

VGThuy

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They really go out of their way to make a scapegoat of this girl. A 15 year old does not decide on her own to take a heart medicine.

I do too, though I think there are measures in place to protect minors. I have lost respect for the IOC the way they went out of their way to make an example of her with complete disregard for her age. Minors are treated differently because of their age. The IOC as an organization should uphold the rules and regulations with regard to minors and protected person status. Instead, they go out of their way to single her out but withholding the team ceremony and then permit her to compete with the caveat that if she makes the podium, the entire podium will be denied a medal ceremony. I have never heard of this happening in prior Olympics. I believe they made that decision with the expectation that the Russian ladies would sweep the podium. The skateboarding competition had a bunch of 13 year olds competing, and diving 14 year olds. If that organization doesn't understand the concept of confidentiality and protecting a child's interests, then they should just raise the age to 18 across all disciplines and not deal with kids at all.
Interesting take...one that ignores key facts that would make a lot of these conclusions wrong, but interesting nonetheless.
 

soogar

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Interesting take...one that ignores key facts that would make a lot of these conclusions wrong, but interesting nonetheless.
You mean all the measures that were taken to ensure that her identity was not disclosed? Basically saying that the person in question had protected status and there was one minor on the team?
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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You mean all the measures that were taken to ensure that her identity was not disclosed? Basically saying that the person in question had protected status and there was one minor on the team?
That’s because the skating world couldn’t go another day of thinking Weed Jesus was the problem.

But I do think it was moronic to narrow the culprits down to one by wording it in such a way.
 

VGThuy

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You mean all the measures that were taken to ensure that her identity was not disclosed? Basically saying that the person in question had protected status and there was one minor on the team?
The only fault I give the IOC, which is a point I agree with you, is that they allowed protected minors to compete at the Olympics to allow this sort of revelation to happen. But so long as there is a free press who is allowed to ask questions, I know that sort of thinking is dying globally, but at the moment we still have it, they would have wondered why couldn't they reveal which athlete failed the drug test because usually they are identified. But they couldn't identify it because well, you know the rest. People already put two and two together even absent saying the person had "protected status" because people would have figured out the one reason a person couldn't have their identity revealed.

Anyway, the real wrongdoing was the fact that the person who had protected status tested positive in the first place.
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
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You mean all the measures that were taken to ensure that her identity was not disclosed? Basically saying that the person in question had protected status and there was one minor on the team?
The problem is that if she wasn't a protected person then her identity would have been disclosed. It's a catch-22 situation when she was the ONLY person on the team whose identity COULDN'T be disclosed, per the WADA code. The moment that the reason for the delay became known of course the question was going to be asked "which athlete had the doping violation?" and all parties involved - WADA, RUSADA, the IOC, the ISU - gave the only answer they could per the WADA code - "we cannot disclose that person's identity" and anyone familiar with WADA Code could figure out why the identity wasn't being disclosed. This was a unique set of circumstances which made it impossible for her identity to remain protected. And even after the media (Russian and western both) revealed that the violation was from a minor, the IOC, WADA and the ISU refused to confirm her identity for a couple of days because of that "protected person" status. It was only after everyone in the entire world "knew" that they were like "well, uhm, yeah..." But in the first few days, they were doing their best to abide by the WADA Code and keep her name from becoming public.

The irony of all this is that if Russia had just used Shcherbakova and Trusova, their two reigning Worlds medalists, they'd have won the gold and Valieva's doping violation would have been kept secret since RUSADA would have imposed the 1-day hand-slap ban and allowed her to compete in the Women's Event, and without the world's scrutiny on her, she probably would have coasted to gold and we'd have never been the wiser.
 

barbk

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They really go out of their way to make a scapegoat of this girl. A 15 year old does not decide on her own to take a heart medicine.

I do too, though I think there are measures in place to protect minors. I have lost respect for the IOC the way they went out of their way to make an example of her with complete disregard for her age. Minors are treated differently because of their age. The IOC as an organization should uphold the rules and regulations with regard to minors and protected person status. Instead, they go out of their way to single her out but withholding the team ceremony and then permit her to compete with the caveat that if she makes the podium, the entire podium will be denied a medal ceremony. I have never heard of this happening in prior Olympics. I believe they made that decision with the expectation that the Russian ladies would sweep the podium. The skateboarding competition had a bunch of 13 year olds competing, and diving 14 year olds. If that organization doesn't understand the concept of confidentiality and protecting a child's interests, then they should just raise the age to 18 across all disciplines and not deal with kids at all.
Minors have been suspended for violations before. If you're competing at an elite level, you should be bound by the elite rules. If not, no competition for you.

I'm still hacked that the East German doped up swimmers were allowed to keep their medals after it was learned, years later, that they'd been doped up to the gills.
 

barbarafan

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According to this article, the ban would start the day of the decision, not the day of the positive test, so that would disqualify Valieva from Milan. Not that she would still be around competing anyway...
What? Then what was her status at the time of the team event? Are they trying to let her have a medal?
 

Karen-W

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What? Then what was her status at the time of the team event? Are they trying to let her have a medal?
From the article..
The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), which is handling the Valiyeva case, said Monday that WADA wants Valiyeva banned for four years starting on the date that the court’s decision goes into effect, plus disqualifying all of her results dating to last Christmas, the date of her positive drug test for a banned heart medication.
So, banned for 4 years once the CAS decision goes into effect, plus lose her Euros title and the Olympic results would be disqualified as well - no team gold.
 

kwanfan1818

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We keep talking about medals, but, in some cases, there are cash and prizes based on placements, from federations, NOCs, governments, and maybe even sponsors, so that bumping everyone up by removing her Euros and Olympics (team and individual) results could result in more than medals.

It will never be able to fix retroactively any changes to WS points that may have impacted starting orders for past competitions.
 

coppertop1

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We keep talking about medals, but, in some cases, there are cash and prizes based on placements, from federations, NOCs, governments, and maybe even sponsors, so that bumping everyone up by removing her Euros and Olympics (team and individual) results could result in more than medals.

It will never be able to fix retroactively any changes to WS points that may have impacted starting orders for past competitions.
Russia screwed everyone over with their cheating.
 

soogar

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Minors have been suspended for violations before. If you're competing at an elite level, you should be bound by the elite rules. If not, no competition for you.

I'm still hacked that the East German doped up swimmers were allowed to keep their medals after it was learned, years later, that they'd been doped up to the gills.
Compare this circus with Andrea Raducan. She was stripped of her gold individual medal and the doctors were penalized. Interestingly enough, Romania was allowed to keep its team gold medal. She also received sympathetic press coverage as well, and everyone said, she is just a child. Contrast this with what happened to Valieva. They should have just awarded the team medals and had confidential hearing, especially since they decided that she could compete since there would be irreparable harm since she was favored to win the event. Things would have been very different if they had kept the matter under wraps, and the athletes would have had their medal ceremonies. Instead, there is this protracted process and this kid had to skate knowing that if she made the podium, the other two athletes would not have a ceremony. So before she is able to appeal and do more fact finding, the IOC already decided to proactively penalize her by not allowing her to participate in ANY ceremonies, and also penalize athletes who had nothing to do with the doping.
 

Karen-W

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Compare this circus with Andrea Raducan. She was stripped of her gold individual medal and the doctors were penalized. Interestingly enough, Romania was allowed to keep its team gold medal. She also received sympathetic press coverage as well, and everyone said, she is just a child. Contrast this with what happened to Valieva. They should have just awarded the team medals and had confidential hearing, especially since they decided that she could compete since there would be irreparable harm since she was favored to win the event. Things would have been very different if they had kept the matter under wraps, and the athletes would have had their medal ceremonies. Instead, there is this protracted process and this kid had to skate knowing that if she made the podium, the other two athletes would not have a ceremony. So before she is able to appeal and do more fact finding, the IOC already decided to proactively penalize her by not allowing her to participate in ANY ceremonies, and also penalize athletes who had nothing to do with the doping.
Except they hadn't already decided she could compete. In fact, I think the IOC/ISU very much wanted her to NOT compete in the Women’s event, hence their appeal of RUSADA's joke of a suspension and adding a 25th woman to the FS.

You really do need to get your timeline down if you want to argue your point effectively.
 

screech

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4 years is unlikely, but I do think it's normal to ask for a higher 'sentencing', knowing that it will likely be lower than what is asked, for compromise. It's likely that they really want 2 years, but they ask for 4, because if they asked for 2, they'd end up with 1.
 

barbk

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Compare this circus with Andrea Raducan. She was stripped of her gold individual medal and the doctors were penalized. Interestingly enough, Romania was allowed to keep its team gold medal. She also received sympathetic press coverage as well, and everyone said, she is just a child. Contrast this with what happened to Valieva. They should have just awarded the team medals and had confidential hearing, especially since they decided that she could compete since there would be irreparable harm since she was favored to win the event. Things would have been very different if they had kept the matter under wraps, and the athletes would have had their medal ceremonies. Instead, there is this protracted process and this kid had to skate knowing that if she made the podium, the other two athletes would not have a ceremony. So before she is able to appeal and do more fact finding, the IOC already decided to proactively penalize her by not allowing her to participate in ANY ceremonies, and also penalize athletes who had nothing to do with the doping.
Baloney. She should have been removed from games entirely and sent home, just like other athletes were sent away based on a drug finding.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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Regarding "protected persons," how on earth was this ever going to work? Because even if the <16 was competing in an individual event, if anyone is removed from the results of an international competition, there will be a public record.

What the rule should have been is that if anyone under 16 tests positive, their coach is banned for as long as an adult athlete with the same infraction would be, and the under 16 gets at least 50% of that penalty unless it can be proven to a reasonable standard that they didn't receive a benefit.
 

soogar

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Except they hadn't already decided she could compete. In fact, I think the IOC/ISU very much wanted her to NOT compete in the Women’s event, hence their appeal of RUSADA's joke of a suspension and adding a 25th woman to the FS.

You really do need to get your timeline down if you want to argue your point effectively.

They hadn't decided anything because there was no hearing. What's the timeline that I'm missing? They had an issue with a minor and they couldn't reveal anything because of her status. Then due to their public actions, they revealed her identity and subjected her to a media shitstorm. There was all this name calling and blame from US media on Kamila- more her than her coaches. This did not happen with Raducan. If we apply the same logic, how come the Romanian gymnast, who was older than Valieva at the time her infraction, was called a child and not blamed for what the doctor gave her, yet Valieva was called a "disgrace" and Tara said she should have known what she was taking. The 16 year old Romanian gymnast was a just a "child" and isn't expected to look at the label of her cold medicine to know what was in it, however 15 year old Valieva is supposed to know that she was taking a banned heart medicine.
 

LeafOnTheWind

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They hadn't decided anything because there was no hearing. What's the timeline that I'm missing? They had an issue with a minor and they couldn't reveal anything because of her status. Then due to their public actions, they revealed her identity and subjected her to a media shitstorm.
What is so difficult for you to understand?

They had to explain the lack of medal ceremony and then said they couldn't say who it was that tested positive for drugs. They would have been able to release the name of all the people over 16. There was only 1 person it could be. You can cry "protected person" all you want but there is no possible way to keep it secret. This is not hard math.
 

Karen-W

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They hadn't decided anything because there was no hearing. What's the timeline that I'm missing? They had an issue with a minor and they couldn't reveal anything because of her status. Then due to their public actions, they revealed her identity and subjected her to a media shitstorm. There was all this name calling and blame from US media on Kamila- more her than her coaches. This did not happen with Raducan. If we apply the same logic, how come the Romanian gymnast, who was older than Valieva at the time her infraction, was called a child and not blamed for what the doctor gave her, yet Valieva was called a "disgrace" and Tara said she should have known what she was taking. The 16 year old Romanian gymnast was a just a "child" and isn't expected to look at the label of her cold medicine to know what was in it, however 15 year old Valieva is supposed to know that she was taking a banned heart medicine.
There were no public actions. They merely delayed the medal ceremony - and no one knew for sure why there was a delay initially. We had Vincent Zhou test positive for Covid that day, which took him out of the Men's event, and that's where the initial speculation centered on why the ceremony was delayed until insidethegames broke the news that it was due to a positive doping test.

It wasn't a US media outlet, btw, that broke the news, regarding the real reason for the delay - insidethegames are British.

There was PLENTY of blame on her coaches - no one was presuming, especially given who Valieva's coach was, that this was some rogue act on her part. But, that's the story the ROC et al tried to peddle, eventually, in offering up the "Grandpa's backwash" theory.

But, hey, you keep throwing out your excuses and revisionist history, and the rest of us who actually remember the correct sequence of events will keep lobbing 'em right back at you.
 

airgelaal

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Compare this circus with Andrea Raducan. She was stripped of her gold individual medal and the doctors were penalized. Interestingly enough, Romania was allowed to keep its team gold medal. She also received sympathetic press coverage as well, and everyone said, she is just a child. Contrast this with what happened to Valieva. They should have just awarded the team medals and had confidential hearing, especially since they decided that she could compete since there would be irreparable harm since she was favored to win the event. Things would have been very different if they had kept the matter under wraps, and the athletes would have had their medal ceremonies. Instead, there is this protracted process and this kid had to skate knowing that if she made the podium, the other two athletes would not have a ceremony. So before she is able to appeal and do more fact finding, the IOC already decided to proactively penalize her by not allowing her to participate in ANY ceremonies, and also penalize athletes who had nothing to do with the doping.
It happened 22 years ago. I am sure that now such a case would have a different outcome.
 

skatingguy

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Compare this circus with Andrea Raducan. She was stripped of her gold individual medal and the doctors were penalized. Interestingly enough, Romania was allowed to keep its team gold medal.
Because in that case we know when the medication was given to Raducan. It was after the team event, and before the individual final, and so the results of the team event were left as is. If Raducan had tested positive for the banned substance after the team event, but before the individual event, than the team medal would have been stripped as well. For example, in that same team event it was later discovered that Chinese gymnast, Dong Fangxiao, was only 14 at the time, and therefore, ineligible for the competition. The Chinese were stripped of the bronze medal.
 
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