The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[Bigbird]

So when Evan has Maddie over his head so to speak aren't his arms outstretched too? Or is it Maddie's position that's the problem? Don't be too judgie, judgie now. Just a question.

 

[Karen-W]

His arms were definitely fully stretched in Boston unless there was an optical illusion happening. I just watched the clip again.

I think the question is whether or not his arms were locked in the fully overhead position for more than a second or so and what length of time is going to elicit an illegal lift call.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Really? ... I would have said that most people will avoid unnecessary risks at the OG, like it or not!

Totally, why would I want to go to the Olympics to play it safe? I think Uncle button agrees with that as well if I remember correctly. If I make it to the Olympics I wanna take a risk. Not play safe

 

[TanithandBenFan]

So when Evan has Maddie over his head so to speak aren't his arms outstretched too? Or is it Maddie's position that's the problem? Don't be too judgie, judgie now. Just a question.

The girl can be positioned above the guy’s head but his arms can’t be fully extended upward in getting her up there if I recall the rule correctly. It pretty much turns into a pairs lift then. H/D’s lift looked like a pairs platter lift IMO.

 

[dancing_on_ice]

So when Evan has Maddie over his head so to speak aren't his arms outstretched too? Or is it Maddie's position that's the problem? Don't be too judgie, judgie now. Just a question.

So in the character lift at the end of Madi and Evan's free program, his arms are very clearly bent when he holds her over his head. Character lift starts at 4:30.

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That's less so the case in Madi and Zach's free program, where Zach's arms were borderline between straight and bent, even though the intention is for it to be bent so it doesn't become a pairs lift.

Edit: Found a link to the lift, and his arms are straighter than I remembered them being.

HD 2021 Lift2.gif

drive.google.com

 

[sap5]

It looks like Zachary pushes Madi up over his head before lowering her down. If he could do the lift without pushing her up (just start lowering her down as soon as she flips into position) there is less risk.

 

[Bigbird]

I think the question is whether or not his arms were locked in the fully overhead position for more than a second or so and what length of time is going to elicit an illegal lift call.

Gotcha...

 

[Bigbird]

So in the character lift at the end of Madi and Evan's free program, his arms are very clearly bent when he holds her over his head. Character lift starts at 4:30.

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That's less so the case in Madi and Zach's free program, where Zach's arms were borderline between straight and bent, even though the intention is for it to be bent so it doesn't become a pairs lift.

Edit: Found a link to the lift, and his arms are straighter than I remembered them being.

HD 2021 Lift2.gif

drive.google.com

I see. But Zach's arms are locked if so for a very short time. But yes, clearly for Evan they are bent. Hmmm.

 

[thvu]

Much of this hinges on the panel's definition of "sustained." As far as I know, the technical committee has not issued a clarification of how they define it. It's probably something they're going to avoid as who really wants to get into a technical/philosophical discussion over perception and time.

f) point of contact of the lifting hand(s)/arm(s) of the lifting partner with any part of the body of the lifted partner is sustained with the fully extended arm(s) higher than the lifting partner’s head (the supporting arm may be sustained and fully extended above the head);

 

[deegee]

To me Olympics are about risk not playing it safe. Go for it and Maddie and Zachary

Playing it safe didn’t do it for Michelle and some others. Risktakers like Tara and Sarah Hughes with multiple triple triples are usually what can make an Olympic gold medal happen

I’m sure them and their coaches have done extensive research to make sure it’s not a banned lift. So I’m happy they’re doing it

but triple-triples and change of edge spins aren't a risk as far as the rules/requirements are concerned, no? i mean, yes the risk of falling or popping is greater, but that's different than the
judges marking your element as illegal.

 

[Kateri]

I'm gonna be grumpy about the lift. It's not new or innovative, it's a basic pairs platter lift that wouldn't get you marked very well if you did it in pairs. Doing it in dance doesn't make you edgy, it makes you look like you don't understand what discipline you're in, and acting like you're smarter than everyone else for thinking of it just makes you look silly.

 

[marbri]

My god that lift really bothers people

That boring old basic (poorly done) pairs platter lift sure has ruffled a lot of feathers.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Hey if they want to take the risk they should go for it. As a C/B fan I’ll sit back and watch what happens.

 

[Bigbird]

Hey if they want to take the risk they should go for it. As a C/B fan I’ll sit back and watch what happens.

Yup. They're almost in a dead heat. It did not bother me before but their FD music, that is H/D is starting to annoy me. But the Eilish RD is just meh/cringey for me. But IMHO Evan looks like window dressing in both programs. Thus that 1 point deduction, could be huge. Oh well.

 

[her grace]

I think it could be pretty interesting if Bates played the role of the alien and Chock was the space explorer.

 

[aka_gerbil]

My god that lift really bothers people

That boring old basic (poorly done) pairs platter lift sure has ruffled a lot of feathers.

Starting after Sochi, so much of the required technical difficulty has been stripped out of ice dance. Just look at what was required for step sequences back then compared to now in terms of changes, holds, etc. As an h/d uber since the very beginning of their partnership, if they’re going to die on a hill, this is the one I want it to be—pushing the technical envelope.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Starting after Sochi, so much of the required technical difficulty has been stripped out of ice dance. Just look at what was required for step sequences back then compared to now in terms of changes, holds, etc. As an h/d uber since the very beginning of their partnership, if they’re going to die on a hill, this is the one I want it to be—pushing the technical envelope.

Then why is pushing the technical envelope just doing a pairs lift instead of actually innovating in dance lifts? If they’re going to die in a hill, you’d think it wouldn’t be a hill where they confuse themselves with a pair team

 

[Bigbird]

I think it could be pretty interesting if Bates played the role of the alien and Chock was the space explorer.

True, but, it would just be pleasant if Bates had a presence or personality on ice. But, then again, why bother, when they tried that strategy it made no impact on their scores.

 

[Bigbird]

Starting after Sochi, so much of the required technical difficulty has been stripped out of ice dance. Just look at what was required for step sequences back then compared to now in terms of changes, holds, etc. As an h/d uber since the very beginning of their partnership, if they’re going to die on a hill, this is the one I want it to be—pushing the technical envelope.

I cannot tell a lie, probably the most interesting/impactful lifts I've seen the last 8 years have those done by I/K in Sochi. Some of W/P stuff also deserve special mention. So if they could make that sort of impact what is preventing the current dance couples? I appreciate just the beauty that P/C bring to their lifts but wow factor not so much. C/Bs lifts look like retreads of previous lifts from American In Paris and Snake programs. S/K lifts with the exception of the lap lift are all retreads of I/K lifts. So...maybe it's just best to have a cohesive well choreographed program. Waiting still to be wowed by lifts.

 

[Belsornia]

at the rink music playing during the replays of this junior team’s Paganini FD at the Russian Cup.

 

[deegee]

at the rink music playing during the replays of this junior team’s Paganini FD at the Russian Cup.

not even the censored version

 

[RoseRed]

at the rink music playing during the replays of this junior team’s Paganini FD at the Russian Cup.

Well, that same team used Call Me By Your Name (Montero) by Lil Nas X in the RD. And included the line "Baby, you living the life, but n***, you ain't livin' right", uncensored.

 

[firstflight]

I don’t think there’s ever been an acrimonious partner split that has continued to haunt both participants as long as the Sarah/Adria split.

Like, so many years out from it and they are still vying for the one spot this season. I almost wish they would just get back together to end the journey together because, apart, it’s been nothing but stress too.

 

[Bigbird]

I don’t think there’s ever been an acrimonious partner split that has continued to haunt both participants as long as the Sarah/Adria split.

Like, so many years out from it and they are still vying for the one spot this season. I almost wish they would just get back together to end the journey together because, apart, it’s been nothing but stress too.

Can I tell you their last FD the tango had potential. I still watch Picasso, not to mention their Paso Doble. They didn't really understand how good they had it.

 

[firstflight]

Can I tell you their last FD the tango had potential. I still watch Picasso, not to mention their Paso Doble. They didn't really understand how good they had it.

By all appearances, it was one sided for the split. Do you understand it differently where one of the two could have “melted” a bit and prevented that split from happening?

 

[Bigbird]

By all appearances, it was one sided for the split. Do you understand it differently where one of the two could have “melted” a bit and prevented that split from happening?

No. No understanding whatsoever. They were just that good.

 

[Gris]

It's a stupid risk to take.

Years ago, before music with lyrics was allowed, Brian Joubert had an SP with vocals that sort of sounded like lyrics. No deductions... until Worlds, the biggest event in the calendar that season.

I hope H/D won't live to regret this.

At least in Joubert's case it didn't affect his placement in the end - it was "merely" a 1 point deduction and he finished about 14 points behind Buttle in that WC. If H/D's lift is deemed illegal then the point loss would be much bigger than that.

Maybe they can modify the lift a bit to make it well within the rules while keeping that impressive entry.

 

[Dobre]

It looks like H/D plan on sticking with their very impressive, but very risky overhead lift for the rest of the season.

Well, either a. they can make sure it fits within the rules or, if necessary, modify it so that it does. Or b. they get hit & they change their minds when compelled to do so.

The only way they end up in very big trouble is if the judges wait around until the Olympics and then the judges hit them on it. This should never happen. It should never have happened to Brian. And it should not happen now. H&D have a whole season ahead of them & we can expect to see them compete in at least 3 international events, not all of them in friendly territory, so we'll see what happens.

I do agree that performing an element you know is illegal is not the same thing as taking a creative risk. But it doesn't sound like they believe the lift is illegal & one does assume they've had every opportunity to run it by Judy and/or some other sticklers in the technical world.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. Lift or no lift, I am interested in how Skate America and the Italian GP dance events will play out.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe H/D will do the FD in the team event at the Olympics and if the lift isn't called there, then it shouldn't be called in the individual unless they really find a difference in execution. I personally think the lift looks really labored and kind of ugly with an too obvious set-up into it that makes them look unsure and has a very clumsy-looking exit.

 

[Belsornia]

Well, that same team used Call Me By Your Name (Montero) by Lil Nas X in the RD. And included the line "Baby, you living the life, but n***, you ain't livin' right", uncensored.

I guess they aren’t expecting to get any international assignments and run into the ISU’s lyric monitors.

I think with H/D’s lift part of the risk is that they seem to have more nervous tension in their skating at the biggest events and the quality can come off a bit. So if the lift has to be done just right with regard to arm bend, sustained position etc to be within the rules, it feels like they’re more likely to miss that when it really counts.