The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[litenkyckling]

The ISU are so boring - that lift is so cool, they've dedicated over a year to perfecting it and they're pushing themselves and the sport. I would say most FDs this quad have been pretty average and (for me) opening the lift restrictions and requirements would do more for the sport than the innocuous choreo elements - which we all know tend to mean nothing since the top teams can do super boring choreo elements and still receive ridiculously high GOE for them yet other teams go all out and receive next to nothing.

edit: It does seem like I.AM. have been stepping up their lift game recently - H/D, F-B/S, L/L, C/P (and I believe F/G are too) have all come out with new lifts the last couple of seasons - hoping P/C have some new and exciting lifts because they're capable and Nikita is shaky.

 

[sap5]

There are a lot of competitions between now and Beijing. They can go the same route as V/M in 2010 where they modify for the Olympics if needed. But push the limits and show people you can do this now in the next few competitions.

They should have a modification ready to go at every competition, because as V/M themselves know, something can be okayed by the judges all season and then possibly dinged at the very end of the season (remember how they changed the Flamenco twist lift ending just before their Worlds 2010 performance because they heard they might get dinged for it?). I don't know how much of a modification they'll need, but I'd guess that this lift isn't as easy to modify as the jump exit for Mahler.

I'm surprised that they couldn't figure out a lift that is cool but doesn't run this close to the rules.

 

[sap5]

After watching Green/Parsons FD, I’m going to go out on a limb and say Michael Parsons has the potential to be the best male ice dancer in the world in the next four years. He has everything I think a male ice dancer should have (super core strength but great flexibility and extension/line, excellent glide and speed, sensitivity to the music, and real patience with partnering). Sure he might be a bit short but he’s not super short and I think his height is actually ideal for his body type for ice dancing.

What do you think of his partnership with Caroline Green? I agree that he is fabulous, but I think she has a ways to go, and I'm not sure she will be caught up by next quad. Maybe scores-wise, this won't matter, but it's what I struggle with as a viewer.

 

[VGThuy]

What do you think of his partnership with Caroline Green? I agree that he is fabulous, but I think she has a ways to go, and I'm not sure she will be caught up by next quad. Maybe scores-wise, this won't matter, but it's what I struggle with as a viewer.

I think time will tell. I do trust Wheaton when it comes to developing their skaters.

 

[litenkyckling]

What do you think of his partnership with Caroline Green? I agree that he is fabulous, but I think she has a ways to go, and I'm not sure she will be caught up by next quad. Maybe scores-wise, this won't matter, but it's what I struggle with as a viewer.

I think she's great but I feel like I hold my breath every time I see them in case she's had a growth spurt - she really can't grow much taller at all.

 

[allezfred]

The ISU are so boring - that lift is so cool, they've dedicated over a year to perfecting it and they're pushing themselves and the sport.

Has the ISU issued a statement about that lift I missed?

 

[taz'smum]

I gotta say that whilst this lift was stunning to watch, when you see the photos of him in full overhead lift with arms locked, it does look to have crossed the boundary into pairs.

 

[Lizziebeth]

That lift was shockingly unusual and very interesting and the first thing I thought was "that's going to get called as illegal" at some time. It is really a cool lift but all it takes is a little trouble when she is above his head and a strict caller will have an issue. Maybe there will be no trouble when is is executed as planned, but that does not always happen.

 

[marbri]

That lift was shockingly unusual and very interesting and the first thing I thought was "that's going to get called as illegal" at some time. It is really a cool lift but all it takes is a little trouble when she is above his head and a strict caller will have an issue. Maybe there will be no trouble when is is executed as planned, but that does not always happen.

Like the time they did that stationary lift?

 

[love skating]

When I saw the beginning of the lift I thought they were going to do a lift like Davis & White's upside down lift in the Olympics. When she kept going and it ended up like a pair lift I thought "is that legal?". I think it's a cool lift but as everyone has already said I'm not sure it's worth the risk.

 

[chantilly]

Does anybody on here know if there is a time indication on the “sustained” rule?

If not there should be.

There’s time limits on lifts and required revolutions on spins etc.

 

[litenkyckling]

Does anybody on here know if there is a time indication on the “sustained” rule?

If not there should be.

There’s time limits on lifts and required revolutions on spins etc.

do you mean when she's above his head? I think its 2 seconds. It's so impressive but I do fear an event when the tech caller goes for it and calls it illegal - it's easy to adapt though I imagine? Good on them and their coaches for trying to push the limits of the rules though.

 

[Dobre]

I gotta say that whilst this lift was stunning to watch, when you see the photos of him in full overhead lift with arms locked, it does look to have crossed the boundary into pairs.

The problem with trying to make it a constantly flowing movement, I think, is that often lifts aren't constantly flowing. So if you muck up that flow, you're now looking at a major deduction.

Anyway, I have no problem with pushing the rules. I think dancers should push the rules & this is a way the sport tends to develop. But if there's a question about whether H&D are going to get credit for this, I won't be surprised if we don't see the lift again.

Sometimes the deduction isn't taken, but the conversation is held & the skaters get a heads-up that the risk of deduction isn't worth it. I mean, that's why you want to debut before the GP, IMO.

 

[thvu]

Does anybody on here know if there is a time indication on the “sustained” rule?

If not there should be.

There’s time limits on lifts and required revolutions on spins etc.

In terms of what “sustained” means for an illegal element, there is not. The term “sustained” is used to indicate required time needed for a difficult pose, etc, but there is no time indication in the rules for when or not a sustained hold above the head makes a lift illegal.

I imagine in this context, ”sustained” just means a perceptible amount of time. So, if Donohue extended his arms and held Hubbell for half a second, that would be sustained. IMO, any discussion of a time interval smaller than that length really gets into a Calculus/Philisophical discussion of how long a “moment” lasts, and what time interval is truly perceptible to us.

For those interested in whether or not holding Hubbell above the head is a feature in the lift, it is not. They have an entry feature (her), a difficult position (her), and two exit features (one for each). It should be noted that lifts in a combination lift share entry and exit features, so the exit features come from the following rotational lift. It’s mostly for the wow factor.

 

[Spikefan]

I loved the lift and at the time felt it was not worth it, then overnight felt “no risk, no reward”. However, that is not really true when a caller can say it’s illegal. I really want them to get an Olympic medal so I am conflicted.

On rewatch, the entire song doesn’t bother me- it’s the “ah-ah-ah’ stuff. I would love it if someone could edit that out from a recording to see if I like it more.

 

[barbarafan]

I can only say that regarding H and D lift is the word “ Sustained”

I don’t think it is, thus falls under the rules

But I’m guessing it’s going to be a controversial point.

However it reminds me of the controversy over V and M’s goose lift in 2010 which they ended up modifying for worse or better depending on the opinion of the day,,

I loved the original goose but after a few competitions of no problems they heard it was going to be zapped at the larger competitions so they modified it.

 

[BittyBug]

This may go against the grain, but at the angle from which I saw the entry to this lift in the arena it was not particularly attractive. The initial view before she gets into the platter position is her butt and then his head was covered in her skirt and really it just looked like a mess. My group did not care for it.

From the gif @thvu provided it looks different, but having seen it from another perspective, I'm not as entranced by this element as most of you seem to be. Add to that the possibility of it being deemed an illegal element (which we all questioned immediately when she got into the platter position), and I don't see it as a plus to the program.

For me, Davis and Smolkin's first lift was more interesting and original.

 

[marbri]

This may go against the grain, but at the angle from which I saw the entry to this lift in the arena it was not particularly attractive. The initial view before she gets into the platter position is her butt and then his head was covered in her skirt and really it just looked like a mess. My group did not care for it.

From the gif @thvu provided it looks different, but having seen it from another perspective, I'm not as entranced by this element as most of you seem to be. Add to that the possibility of it being deemed an illegal element (which we all questioned immediately when she got into the platter position), and I don't see it as a plus to the program.

For me, Davis and Smolkin's first lift was more interesting and original.

The combination lift at the beginning (StaLi+RoLi)? Yes it looked good but original it is not, both parts of that combo have been done already.

 

[BittyBug]

The combination lift at the beginning (StaLi+RoLi)? Yes it looked good but original it is not, both parts of that combo have been done already.

Have those two parts been put together before, though? (Maybe they have.) But if we're looking at parts, a gazillion pairs teams have done the platter part of HubDon's lift before, although it's certainly original to use that type of lift in dance. Not yet convinced they'll get away with it all season, though.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

I suspect what will happen is, the lift will go un-remarked upon for most of the season and then, at the worst possible time, they will take just a moment or two longer to get through it, it will be just a little bit off and then boom—it gets disqualified. Kind of like what happened at Four Continents a couple years back, when a bit of awkwardness in the execution of their big showpiece lift, cost them the win.

 

[litenkyckling]

The combination lift at the beginning (StaLi+RoLi)? Yes it looked good but original it is not, both parts of that combo have been done already.

I'd argue it didn't even look good tbh

 

[VGThuy]

I suspect what will happen is, the lift will go un-remarked upon for most of the season and then, at the worst possible time, they will take just a moment or two longer to get through it, it will be just a little bit off and then boom—it gets disqualified. Kind of like what happened at Four Continents a couple years back, when a bit of awkwardness in the execution of their big showpiece lift, cost them the win.

And then they'll change the rules for the next season to make a mistake like that less costly.

 

[MsZem]

If H/D want to use that entry into a different lift, that would be cool. As it is, I have no idea why they spent so much effort training something that looks very much like a pairs lift. It doesn't seem like a sound strategy going into any season, let alone an Olympic one.

But if they want to risk it and maybe get a deduction when it truly matters, that's their call.

 

[marbri]

Have those two parts been put together before, though? (Maybe they have.) But if we're looking at parts, a gazillion pairs teams have done the platter part of HubDon's lift before, although it's certainly original to use that type of lift in dance. Not yet convinced they'll get away with it all season, though.

I am looking at two elements (not parts) done in combination, like a 3F+3T. All dance teams do lifts in combination just like all skaters do jumps in combination. I am just arguing it wasn't at all original, not much was in that program. But I understand a lot of people enjoyed it which is a separate thing

 

[litenkyckling]

I am looking at two elements (not parts) done in combination, like a 3F+3T. All dance teams do lifts in combination just like all skaters do jumps in combination. I am just arguing it wasn't at all original, not much was in that program. But I understand a lot of people enjoyed it which is a separate thing

I would just like to know if people would've enjoyed it the same if her mother was a totally unknown person?

 

[Dobre]

I definitely wouldn't get rid of the lift between now and SkAm. Yes, there are questions about it's legality but they're going to lose enough points to drop below 2nd at either of their GPs. Worse case scenario, it gets called at the GPF, they lose out on a medal there. Even if they don't get it called there, by then they'll have enough feedback by then to know whether or not they need to spend a couple months re-working it before the Olympics.

Stepanova & Bukin and Papadakis & Cizeron are both scheduled for Italy.

 

[MarieM]

The season is gonna be long.
Not one single program so far I love. Not one I dare say I really like.
I do enjoy some parts of FDs or RDs, but not a whole program at the moment.

Olympic season sucks

 

[sap5]

If H/D want to use that entry into a different lift, that would be cool. As it is, I have no idea why they spent so much effort training something that looks very much like a pairs lift. It doesn't seem like a sound strategy going into any season, let alone an Olympic one.

But if they want to risk it and maybe get a deduction when it truly matters, that's their call.

I don't get H/D's approach this year at all. This is their final year in skating; their final chance to make a statement about who they are as a team and why they deserve to be on the top of the Olympic podium. The statement they're making is...that they chose to spend over a year training a lift that might be invalidated?

 

[Bigbird]

I don't get H/D's approach this year at all. This is their final year in skating; their final chance to make a statement about who they are as a team and why they deserve to be on the top of the Olympic podium. The statement they're making is...that they chose to spend over a year training a lift that might be invalidated?

Because maybe as they've grown older their focus is authenticity and not necessarily the colour of a medal? I don't think we can really begin to understand how oppressive ice dance has become. I just think that could be their reasoning.

 

[sap5]

Because maybe as they've grown older their focus is authenticity and not necessarily the colour of a medal? I don't think we can really begin to understand how oppressive ice dance has become. I just think that could be their reasoning.

These ideas aren’t mutually exclusive. Focusing on being authentic doesn’t prevent you from making a statement of who you are as a team and why you deserve to be on the podium, in any color position.