Josh Duggar ('19 Kids and Counting') Arrested by Feds

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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58,615
think that it's a public disgrace that he was released without having to remit a single dime in bond,
I am not a big believer in cash bail as I believe it penalizes the poor and (often) minorities. So I'm not going to complain about it here. (Though I'm sure there is a double-standard going on here. But the goal is to treat the poor and minorities the same as rich white people, not treat rich white people as badly as the poor and minorities.)

I think a concern is how long will he get in prison anyway? A handful of years at most I'll bet.
He'll be lucky to live through it. Child molesters are considered the worst of the worst in prison.
 

Jay42

Between the click of the light
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5,060
Jill and her husband, Derick Dillard, have basically been estranged from her parents since they finally had enough and bowed out of "Counting On," the series that TLC came up with after they had to drop the original one due to Josh's previous molestation incidents. Derick was especially tired of Jim-Bob calling the shots and also keeping all the money. Rather interesting, isn't it, that a man who firmly believes the husband is the head of the household and should make all the rules would not allow his son-in-laws to have that same power with his daughters when it meant he might have to share the profits...
The Dillard's are largely estranged because of something that happened in the aftermath of their youngest sons birth. Jill had rough home births with both pregnancies and their youngest son ended up in the hospital after he was born. No one really knows exactly what happened, footage never aired and no one has ever talked about it. Because all the money from 19KAC and Counting On pretty much went through Jim Bob, Jill and Dereck didn't have the money they needed to pay for their babies hospital stay and Jim Bob wouldn't give it to them. Dereck went after TLC for the money, which they got and they've been off the show ever since. Jill was at the most recent Duggar weddings and she's been at some stuff at the house but she's not allowed in the house if Jim Bob and Michelle aren't there.

I lurk on the Duggar Snark subreddit so everything I know comes from there.

As for how much sway the Duggars have in their community, I think think they have a lot of pull in their church community, but they've been kind of on the outs with IBLP since Bill Gothard had to step down because of his sexual harassment allegations and they continued to support him. From what I've been able to gather the Duggars are not well liked in their region outside of their church community. I will admit that's based off of things I've seen elsewhere on the internet and I could be wrong there. But I've seen the sentiment expressed quite often.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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11,983
I am not a big believer in cash bail as I believe it penalizes the poor and (often) minorities. So I'm not going to complain about it here. (Though I'm sure there is a double-standard going on here. But the goal is to treat the poor and minorities the same as rich white people, not treat rich white people as badly as the poor and minorities.)


He'll be lucky to live through it. Child molesters are considered the worst of the worst in prison.
I expect he will kill himself before making it to prison.
 

FiveRinger

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,187
I am not a big believer in cash bail as I believe it penalizes the poor and (often) minorities. So I'm not going to complain about it here. (Though I'm sure there is a double-standard going on here. But the goal is to treat the poor and minorities the same as rich white people, not treat rich white people as badly as the poor and minorities.)


He'll be lucky to live through it. Child molesters are considered the worst of the worst in prison.
Bingo. You guys are better at explaining what I mean than I am. I might have mentioned it upthread but don't want to make this a political discussion
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
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3,234
I expect he will kill himself before making it to prison.

I would be furious if he 'martyred' himself over this - either through suicide or attack in prison.

All that happens then is that others are then forced to feel guilty for his actions the rest of their lives. And in this case, his sisters especially.

If such a thing was to happen, it would overshadow and minimise his crimes and the proper system of justice and it would be a circus.

Within the family and church, there would be a narrative that child protective services, the police and the conspiracy of accusations 'murdered' Josh. It would actually cause huge damage. Then some kind of idea would develop that accusing a person of abuse or assault is like a conspiracy to have them killed.
 
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MacMadame

Doing all the things
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58,615
I expect he will kill himself before making it to prison.
That's possible and often happens with some of the cases I follow. Then their fellow pedos talk about how they didn't really have porn on their computers, just pictures of the Sprouse twins (or whoever is the hot male pre-teen now) even though they traded porn with these people.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
35,878
I lurk on the Duggar Snark subreddit so everything I know comes from there.

Trigger warning for anyone looking on this subreddit: there is a thread discussing a video that allegedly was found on Josh's computer, and even the very vague descriptions in the posts saying "don't look at this video" are horrifying. Even the name of the person who made the video has been blacked out because the video is so infamous. Josh allegedly viewed this video multiple times 🤮
 

Jay42

Between the click of the light
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5,060
Trigger warning for anyone looking on this subreddit: there is a thread discussing a video that allegedly was found on Josh's computer, and even the very vague descriptions in the posts saying "don't look at this video" are horrifying. Even the name of the person who made the video has been blacked out because the video is so infamous. Josh allegedly viewed this video multiple times 🤮
I had forgotten about that, thank you for the warning. I only found out that people had started talking about the video this afternoon and I haven't been on Reddit much today.
 

MsZem

I see the sea
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18,495
I'm sure that the judge was elected to the bench and is a part of the community.
Federal judges are not elected.

There have so far been two judges involved in the case. Erin L. Wiedemann is the chief magistrate judge for the Western District of Arkansas. Christy Comstock, who set the conditions for Josh Duggar's pretrial release, is a newly appointed magistrate judge. Magistrate judges are appointed by the federal judges in that district (see here). All three judges for the Western District of Arkansas are Obama apointees, so I'm going to venture a guess that they are unlikely to be religious extremists of any kind. There are also two judges with senior status (= retired to some extent), one was appointed by Bush 41 and one by Clinton.
 

Yazmeen

All we are saying, is give peace a chance
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5,840
The Dillard's are largely estranged because of something that happened in the aftermath of their youngest sons birth. Jill had rough home births with both pregnancies and their youngest son ended up in the hospital after he was born. No one really knows exactly what happened, footage never aired and no one has ever talked about it. Because all the money from 19KAC and Counting On pretty much went through Jim Bob, Jill and Dereck didn't have the money they needed to pay for their babies hospital stay and Jim Bob wouldn't give it to them. Dereck went after TLC for the money, which they got and they've been off the show ever since. Jill was at the most recent Duggar weddings and she's been at some stuff at the house but she's not allowed in the house if Jim Bob and Michelle aren't there.

I lurk on the Duggar Snark subreddit so everything I know comes from there.

As for how much sway the Duggars have in their community, I think think they have a lot of pull in their church community, but they've been kind of on the outs with IBLP since Bill Gothard had to step down because of his sexual harassment allegations and they continued to support him. From what I've been able to gather the Duggars are not well liked in their region outside of their church community. I will admit that's based off of things I've seen elsewhere on the internet and I could be wrong there. But I've seen the sentiment expressed quite often.
So, that's being "Christian" according to Jim-Bob; you must have as many babies as God gives you, but if you work for me, and one of those babies has a problem, you're on your own, don't come running to me for help.

"Pro-life," huh???? Mother of God...
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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21,619
I think a concern is how long will he get in prison anyway? A handful of years at most I'll bet.

And then after those years, he will probably stand up in church and give (another) testimony about how god has cured him and all his family will be required to stand up and publicly 'offer up their forgiveness' (again).

So Anna is going to have to deal with that at some point, him getting convicted and jailed is not going to get him out of her life.
She should divorce
So, that's being "Christian" according to Jim-Bob; you must have as many babies as God gives you, but if you work for me, and one of those babies has a problem, you're on your own, don't come running to me for help.

"Pro-life," huh???? Mother of God...
A girl who went to my Protestant church growing up died in child birth. My old Church wasn’t against hospitals but she got involved in a weird cult. And died because they wouldn’t take her to the hospital.

Apparently a friend of mine was telling me a girl I am aquiantances with who is a midwife is also vaginal vaginal vaginal I got very upset given the above.
 

Yazmeen

All we are saying, is give peace a chance
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5,840
A girl who went to my church growing up died in child birth not a Catholic Church. My Church wasn’t against hospitals but she got involved in a weird cult. And died because they wouldn’t take her to the hospital
And that has exactly WHAT to do with my point that this great "Christian" man who condemns abortion and birth control (and who only values women for their ability to produce offspring) refused to help a child AFTER it was born?????

Ahh, yes, the "fourth trimester." Where the fervor of the "pro-life" movement dissolves, and all support dries up once the baby is out of the womb...
 

becca

Well-Known Member
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21,619
And that has exactly WHAT to do with my point that this great "Christian" man who condemns abortion and birth control (and who only values women for their ability to produce offspring) refused to help a child AFTER it was born?????

Ahh, yes, the "fourth trimester." Where the fervor of the "pro-life" movement dissolves, and all support dries up once the baby is out of the womb...
Wait a minute I am part of the pro life movement and I don’t support that crap. I know people who run pro life organizations who do try to help women keep and support their babies.

Stop blaming for fringe craziness.
 

Yazmeen

All we are saying, is give peace a chance
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5,840
Wait a minute I am part of the pro life movement and I don’t support that crap. I know people who run pro life organizations who do try to help women keep and support their babies.

Stop blaming for fringe craziness.
As usual, you had to step in and bring up something that had nothing to do with the point being made. So, I responded with the point of my original post. It's SO important that a child must be born, but then way too often, the parent(s) and child are expected to struggle on their own. And as for the "organizations" you mentioned, they're the exception, not the norm.

And this will be my last post on this particular point. I know when to quit...
 

pat c

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,751
I am not a big believer in cash bail as I believe it penalizes the poor and (often) minorities. So I'm not going to complain about it here. (Though I'm sure there is a double-standard going on here. But the goal is to treat the poor and minorities the same as rich white people, not treat rich white people as badly as the poor and minorities.)


He'll be lucky to live through it. Child molesters are considered the worst of the worst in prison.
Yes. Other inmates have mothers, children, sisters, nieces and nephews.............he will be a pariah.
I expect he will kill himself before making it to prison.
Maybe, depends on how gutless he is. And the quote from Prancer below will be a very big factor if he does.
I think it's far more likely that Josh would never be mentioned, as if he never existed.
 

Matryeshka

Euler? Euler? Anyone?
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16,559
A high school history teacher told me the emphasis on no sex outside of marriage came when England made the church financial responsible for children born to unwed mothers. I have never tried to corroborate this, but it sounds plausible.
I’m a high school history teacher. This was definitely a factor—it wasn’t THE factor though. Another factor was prostitutes in England were practically a guild and exercised a lot more power than one would expect. Prostitution in early, early England was not necessarily seen as a negative. It wasn’t seen as a positive either but it was more complicated than one might expect. One way to tamp that down was to demonize prostitution. Prostitutes in Scandinavia came very close to having a legally-recognized guild which would given them immense power—it was the Church that objected. No sex before marriage was always a thing and frowned upon, but the extreme emphasis on it being solely a woman’s problem and detrimental to society came later. The early Church as it started to gain more and more political power saw unmarried women as a possible challenge to their authority and smacked it down hard.

Probably not an appropriate lecture for a high school class :lol:
 

Parsley Sage

Well-Known Member
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3,014
The Dillard's are largely estranged because of something that happened in the aftermath of their youngest sons birth. Jill had rough home births with both pregnancies and their youngest son ended up in the hospital after he was born. No one really knows exactly what happened, footage never aired and no one has ever talked about it. Because all the money from 19KAC and Counting On pretty much went through Jim Bob, Jill and Dereck didn't have the money they needed to pay for their babies hospital stay and Jim Bob wouldn't give it to them. Dereck went after TLC for the money, which they got and they've been off the show ever since. Jill was at the most recent Duggar weddings and she's been at some stuff at the house but she's not allowed in the house if Jim Bob and Michelle aren't there.

I lurk on the Duggar Snark subreddit so everything I know comes from there.

As for how much sway the Duggars have in their community, I think think they have a lot of pull in their church community, but they've been kind of on the outs with IBLP since Bill Gothard had to step down because of his sexual harassment allegations and they continued to support him. From what I've been able to gather the Duggars are not well liked in their region outside of their church community. I will admit that's based off of things I've seen elsewhere on the internet and I could be wrong there. But I've seen the sentiment expressed quite often.
Both of Jill's deliveries were emergency c-sections. She tried having the first at home but her labour didn't progress so she went to the hospital.
 

maatTheViking

Roxaaannnneeee!!!
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Probably not an appropriate lecture for a high school class :lol:

honest question - why not? this is interesting and the power and influence of the church, the dynamics of the church and state, where social power lies and how our so-called 'morals' developed is important lessons to understand? Especially that they are not given or universal, but comes from specific political ideas and quests for power (rather than 'bettering mankind'). How ideas develop and change from one part of the world to another, from one time period to another.
and a lot more!
 

taf2002

Fluff up your tutu & dance away.....
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28,770
Wait a minute I am part of the pro life movement and I don’t support that crap. I know people who run pro life organizations who do try to help women keep and support their babies.

Stop blaming for fringe craziness.
The pro-lifers I know constantly rage against "people keep having kids they can't afford & I end up paying for them". When I point out the alternative would be children going hungry they counter with "if they just got off their butts & got a job" without regard to the fact that low-paying jobs can't keep up with the cost of childcare. I do not consider these people fringe crazies, just heartless & selfish.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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11,983
I can’t stop laughing at the karma that is coming to JimBob and Michelle now that Derick (Jill’s husband) is graduating as a lawyer. :40beers: :lol:

 

Jay42

Between the click of the light
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5,060
Both of Jill's deliveries were emergency c-sections. She tried having the first at home but her labour didn't progress so she went to the hospital.
Ah thank you. I had forgotten that. I just remembered they were difficult births that didn't go well at home.
 

Matryeshka

Euler? Euler? Anyone?
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16,559
honest question - why not? this is interesting and the power and influence of the church, the dynamics of the church and state, where social power lies and how our so-called 'morals' developed is important lessons to understand? Especially that they are not given or universal, but comes from specific political ideas and quests for power (rather than 'bettering mankind'). How ideas develop and change from one part of the world to another, from one time period to another.
and a lot more!
Errr...I teach at a Catholic school in the Deep South. I had a parent bitch about me to the principal because I implied dinos were real and that Muslims regarded Jesus as a prophet but not a divine figure. Our poor priest/principal was dumbfounded and had to tell her gently that the Catholic Church believes in dinosaurs (and evolution) AND Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet but not a divine figure.
The crazy theology teacher told the sophomores that taking birth control turns girls into lesbians because you know estrogen.
So, umm, yeah. Not touching that topic in this environment. Though the Borgias are FAIR GAME. :EVILLE: Sometimes Alex the Great and his horsie. But not that! It’s a strange time to be a teacher.
 

starrynight

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3,234
The crazy theology teacher told the sophomores that taking birth control turns girls into lesbians because you know estrogen.

Wow that’s new.

I got taught at school that the pill would sterilise you for up to 5 years if you took it. Which is obviously incorrect.

I remember going home and asking my mother about that and she pointed out she was pregnant within weeks of stopping taking the old school pill (the one with a heap more hormones than the modern variety).
 

starrynight

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3,234
Actually I do have a question for those who know - this general topic has made me wonder.

How does homeschooling work? (In my country it isn't a thing -- aside from distance education for those on very remote properties -- so I'm curious)

For example, hypothetically, if I was homeschooling a teenager who wanted to study physics, chemistry and higher mathematics.... how would someone like me teach it as I don't have qualifications (or any skill) in any of those areas. Do the kids just work independently though books or do they take online classes? What happens if they need someone to explain the work to them (i.e. teach them). Are there teachers on the internet that provide classes?
 

ilovepaydays

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13,286
How does homeschooling work? (In my country it isn't a thing -- aside from distance education for those on very remote properties -- so I'm curious)

For example, hypothetically, if I was homeschooling a teenager who wanted to study physics, chemistry and higher mathematics.... how would someone like me teach it as I don't have qualifications (or any skill) in any of those areas. Do the kids just work independently though books or do they take online classes? What happens if they need someone to explain the work to them (i.e. teach them). Are there teachers on the internet that provide classes?

In the U.S., the regulations vary widely by state. Generally speaking, from what I know from parents I know who homeschool (granted these parents range from very secular to religious but they aren’t fundamentalist like IFBs), they use a variety of homeschool curriculums/online programs and supplement subjects with private tutors. Some families may pool $$$ together and hire a tutor in a subject.

There are many different philosophies to homeschooling, but most families that I know use the classical method and love it. I know of a couple of families that use the Charlotte Mason method and have found it (so far) to be successful.

This will probably come across as judgemental, but I’m not a fan of the “unschooling” movement. I think children need a bit more structure than that.

Hope this helps.
 
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Prancer

Chitarrista
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56,224
How does homeschooling work?
As with all things education in the US, there are a lot of answers to that question, which vary by homeschoolers and by state.

In some states, homeschoolers are required to meet the same educational standards as public school students, including having to take state exams. In others, they are exempt from state testing. I believe that most states do require them to meet some standard, but that varies quite a bit.

Most homeschoolers use a purchased curriculum, as the Duggars do, which they buy from different sources. There are a lot of Christian-based curriculums, but there are others that are not Christian at all. Contrary to popular opinion, not all homeschoolers are religious. Some parents design their own curriculum.

Some homeschoolers pool their resources; different parents teach subjects they know to groups of homeschoolers. Some parents hire tutors for specific subjects. Some homeschooled kids do online classes. Some parents send their kids to public or private schools for specific subjects (usually science and/or math). Some send their kids to college for specific classes. And some just ignore certain subjects, like science, for the most part.

As you might expect, educational outcomes vary wildly. There are homeschoolers who get perfect SAT/ACT scores upon completing high school and homeschoolers who are functionally illiterate, and everything in between. Homeschoolers in my state are required to meet state education standards, so the homeschooled students I get in classes are generally right about where all the other students are. Some of them are behind the curve, but some of them are way ahead of it, too. I have learned to wait and see when a student says he is homeschooled; it could mean anything. Most homeschooled kids that I get are Christians (and that can mean anything, too), but I've also had kids who were pulled out schools and homeschooled because of bullying, chronic illness, mental illness, and lack of school support for giftedness.
 

starrynight

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Through browsing the internet, it seems that homeschooling is common and popular in the US (well beyond special needs situations). Why is that? The US has free public schooling for all kids doesn't it?

The pressures and mental demands on parents to educate their kids all day everyday through preschool to high school (as well as all the other parenting) must be pretty onerous. Obviously, one parent wouldn't ever be able to work.

But how could parents design their own curriculum for their children or ignore subjects? How does that work in terms of a child's right to an education?
 

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