Josh Duggar ('19 Kids and Counting') Arrested by Feds

[overedge]

I don’t disagree with you although they were all children when it happened i just meant the program in general who knows how naive she has been.

please don’t get me wrong I think she should divorce him

Why are you struggling to find reasons to justify his behavior? The federal agents know how devastating it would be for someone to be wrongly charged with something this serious. They wouldn't have laid these charges if they didn't have evidence they thought was reliable.

If you're trying to defend him because he's a Christian, then ask yourself if a good Christian would do the things he's accused of doing.

 

[MsZem]

I don't think becca is justifying Josh Duggar's behavior at all, or that she considers him a good Christian. It's more about the question of what Anna knew or thought - it's easy to say that there's a lot she could and should have done differently, but Rachael Denhollander's tweets make it clear how hard that can be for someone raised as she was.

Josh was a minor when he molested his sisters, and in that kind of community, maybe it was easier for his wife to believe that he was now interested in adults. But unless she was enabling his horrifying taste for CSAM, there are people who should be considered more accountable than her in this.

Rachael Denhollander is right about how twisted the kind of faith the Duggars practice is, and the "educational" materials her husband posted are so offensive I don't even know where to start. It's all toxic beyond belief.

 

[millyskate]

Why are you struggling to find reasons to justify his behavior? The federal agents know how devastating it would be for someone to be wrongly charged with something this serious. They wouldn't have laid these charges if they didn't have evidence they thought was reliable.

If you're trying to defend him because he's a Christian, then ask yourself if a good Christian would do the things he's accused of doing.

In defence is becca here, that’s really not what she is doing.
She was responding to an inference that Josh was a known child molestor before this incident, so Anna should have left him. Becca pointed out that josh had molested his sisters when he was a similar age to them so no leap would have been made by Anna to assume he was interested in children, and it’s with the assumption they were protecting the family from adult pornography that they installed the software - although the software protects against both. (Admittedly becca formulated this poorly but at no point did she minimise or doubt the current charges neither did she defend Josh - but Anna, against quartz’s picture of her as an enabler )
I guess from the outside many would have suspected , me included, that he was dangerous to children but it’s also easy to see why Anna would not have made that assumption.
Quite clearly there’s now no possible doubt at just how depraved this man is. The family members, especially his father, who continue to enable him are deeply culpable.

 

[Jay42]

Josh's youngest sister that he molested was 5 years old. They weren't 8-12, more like 5-11 years old.

 

[starrynight]

Given Josh’s actions, I doubt that he at home diligently helping Anna with the children. For starters, the times when he was downloading all that stuff was in the late afternoon, early evening when Anna would have been feeding and bathing the kids at home.

She’d be homeschooling them during the day and then doing every bit of cooking, cleaning, washing and household tasks. I wouldn’t be surprised if she barely interacted with him in meaningful sense on a day to day basis.

And he’s as sneaky as anything. Anna probably thought she was monitoring him, but he installed that partition to render the surveillance software useless.

 

[becca]

Why are you struggling to find reasons to justify his behavior? The federal agents know how devastating it would be for someone to be wrongly charged with something this serious. They wouldn't have laid these charges if they didn't have evidence they thought was reliable.

If you're trying to defend him because he's a Christian, then ask yourself if a good Christian would do the things he's accused of doing.

I am not justifying him I was justifying the computer program for adults getting rid of adult porn.

What he did was horrific and his family should have gotten help he was child himself. He belongs in jail and shouldn’t get bail.
For the record I think Anna is a an idiot and this point cupable

 

[taf2002]

I'm sure it will turn out that Anna is mostly at fault here since she failed at monitoring him & keeping him to the straight & narrow. And how effective will she be now? He gets to see his kids only if Anna is there. But if he sends her to the store or makes up any other excuse for her to leave him alone with the kids she will have to obey him. ick!

 

[becca]

I'm sure it will turn out that Anna is mostly at fault here since she failed at monitoring him & keeping him to the straight & narrow. And how effective will she be now? He gets to see his kids only if Anna is there. But if he sends her to the store or makes up any other excuse for her to leave him alone with the kids she will have to obey him. ick!

I was only sort of defending her with the child stuff saying she may have felt he did as a child past that portion. I would have left with him with the Madison stuff I wonder if the family disclosed that past to her when she Married if it wasn’t- she would have annulment grounds in the Catholic Church.

However now I have no defense. I can understand why the family would be quiet publically

However I think if she is supporting him being around her kids and not in jail she is cupulbale now.

 

[Vagabond]

@Vagabond here:

Who Are Lacount and Maria Reber? Josh Duggar's 3rd-Party Custodians

Josh Duggar's third-party custodians are 'close friends' Lacount and Maria Reber following his release from jail on bond. Get more details.

www.intouchweekly.com

That article is of a piece with the USA Today article and contradicts Rachael Denhollander's version.

Denhollander does everyone a disservice by making unfounded claims about the terms of the release.

 

[becca]

Derick Dillard: Jim Bob Duggar uses 'scare tactics' on Jill's siblings

Derick, 32, said he and Jill, 29, were 'told to keep filming and keep our mouths shut,' and he implied some of Jill's siblings want to leave but have their own 'fears/threats.'

www.google.com

 

[Wyliefan]

That article is of a piece with the USA Today article and contradicts Rachael Denhollander's version.

Denhollander does everyone a disservice by making unfounded claims about the terms of the release.

How does this contradict Rachael's version? Beside the fact that she said the wife teaches piano when in fact it's the daughter, I see no contradiction.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Josh Duggar Will Be Released into Custody of 'Close Friends' of the Family, Lacount and Maria Reber

During his testimony, Nguyen said that Maria had expressed concerns to the probation office about Duggar's release into their home because her husband works full-time and there are several hours per day she would be alone with Duggar.

"Mrs. Reber was concerned regarding being left alone with Josh, because he was a male and she was a female," Nguyen said, adding that "she wasn't sure how she felt about being alone with him for long durations of time."

Maria also told Nguyen that she and her husband did not know Duggar well, but they were close with his parents — Jim Bob and Michelle — who asked them to serve as his custodians.

"She and her husband felt that they should help Mr. Duggar's parents and Mr. Duggar," he said during his testimony.

Maria added that she was "familiar with" but "did not know the details of" the charges against Duggar, Nguyen said.

The probation officer also said the Rebers sometimes have minor children over for piano lessons with their adult daughter and that both Lacount and Maria owned firearms but not a firearm safe.

In her own testimony, however, Maria said they could relocate the piano lessons and remove the firearms should Duggar reside in their home. Lacount later added that the couple and their adult daughter would ensure that Duggar has no access to their phones or computers.

 

[FiveRinger]

Lawyer Reacts to Josh Duggar Release
I have so many feelings about this that I don't even think that I can communicate all of them. But I'll try to be brief.

Anna's responsibility, as an adult, has the responsibility to protect her children, not her husband. From a religious standpoint, I don't agree with this garbage about putting your husband before everyone else. Your children cannot protect themselves against a predator. As their mother, that is her responsibility. Even if that predator is her husband and their father. There's no evidence that he has physically abused his children. According to this video, the court is going to want a forensic examination of the children, and that will only happen if their mother allows it. Josh doesn't have any say in that, at this point.

Emily (from video) gives a very good account about why Josh was released from jail, but I don't feel good about it. Josh knew about these possible charges for more than a year and half. If he was going to flee, he had a passport, he had siblings that fly planes and have access to them. He has the funds (from Jim Bob). Josh's lawyer's point was that it he was going to flee he would have done it already. He hadn't purportedly done anything else illegal after that point. And of course they reminded the court that he didn't have a record. Now, my argument was that he admitted to molesting his sisters. The counterargument was that this happened more than a dozen years ago, Josh was a juvenile at the time, and even if he had been convicted of that at the time, the record would have been expunged because he was a minor. I didn't like it, but those are all facts.

The "friends" that are taking in Josh are friends of Jim Bob's. The wife spoke in court and basically said that she was free-speaking, had a mind of her own, that they were going to do this (allow Josh to stay with them) because Josh was someone in need and they wanted to help him. The judge was apparently very strong with her wording, telling her in no uncertain terms that if Josh broke the terms of the agreement that she was to consult Probation herself first, not her husband, not Jim Bob. She agreed to this, knowing that the consequences of not following the rules of the court would be severely consequential to her directly. I think that this is a terrible position that her own husband is putting her in. She is the one that is going to be spending the majority of the time with Josh alone. I can't believe that she's not worried about her own physical safety. Not that he might try to molest her, per say, but what if she caught him doing something unsavory and she was to try to report it and she was at home alone with him. There's not enough friendship in the world that would make me participate in this. Sorry.....

Someone also mentioned upthread that this woman is the piano teacher. Is she just going to stop earning a living for the next 6 month to a year while Josh is living in the house with them? I've seen on other threads where the community is extremely protective of the Duggar clan and will go to whatever lengths necessary to keep him out of jail. When I say the community, I'm referring to several counties in northern Arkansas. Some people are concerned that if this went to trial, there's no way they'd ever get a conviction, which is incredible, given how damning the evidence against him is.

The one thing that no one mentioned in court was the amount of the bail. They did discuss that Josh was paying for GPS monitoring in order to be out. The family did tell the court that they were not receiving any monetary benefit for allowing Josh to stay in their home. There hasn't been any indication anywhere about how much bond (if any) that Josh had to put up. I'm just going to say that if we have to wonder, then there is reason to doubt that he didn't pay a dime, and that opens a whole discussion about privilege. But that's belongs in the PI thread. It's just something to keep in mind.

Emily also said something else that I knew in the back of my mind, but wouldn't swear to it because I'm not a lawyer. She's a former CA Asst District Attorney, so she knows better than me. Paraphrasing her, if the Feds bring charges against you, the evidence is strong, and he will only be able to fight it and win on two fronts. The first would be if there was an evidentiary issue, meaning that evidence was collected improperly and didn't follow procedure and secondly, if they are able to prove that it wasn't him on the computer. The second theory goes out the window, considering that the investigator got on the stand and said that the log-ins used on these websites were Josh's own birthday, the same ones he used to access his banking info. You can't get more incriminating than that......It looks like there's a plea deal in his future, and he will get less time if they can get some of the evidence thrown out.

 

[becca]

Lawyer Reacts to Josh Duggar Release
I have so many feelings about this that I don't even think that I can communicate all of them. But I'll try to be brief.

Anna's responsibility, as an adult, has the responsibility to protect her children, not her husband. From a religious standpoint, I don't agree with this garbage about putting your husband before everyone else. Your children cannot protect themselves against a predator. As their mother, that is her responsibility. Even if that predator is her husband and their father. There's no evidence that he has physically abused his children. According to this video, the court is going to want a forensic examination of the children, and that will only happen if their mother allows it. Josh doesn't have any say in that, at this point.

Emily (from video) gives a very good account about why Josh was released from jail, but I don't feel good about it. Josh knew about these possible charges for more than a year and half. If he was going to flee, he had a passport, he had siblings that fly planes and have access to them. He has the funds (from Jim Bob). Josh's lawyer's point was that it he was going to flee he would have done it already. He hadn't purportedly done anything else illegal after that point. And of course they reminded the court that he didn't have a record. Now, my argument was that he admitted to molesting his sisters. The counterargument was that this happened more than a dozen years ago, Josh was a juvenile at the time, and even if he had been convicted of that at the time, the record would have been expunged because he was a minor. I didn't like it, but those are all facts.

The "friends" that are taking in Josh are friends of Jim Bob's. The wife spoke in court and basically said that she was free-speaking, had a mind of her own, that they were going to do this (allow Josh to stay with them) because Josh was someone in need and they wanted to help him. The judge was apparently very strong with her wording, telling her in no uncertain terms that if Josh broke the terms of the agreement that she was to consult Probation herself first, not her husband, not Jim Bob. She agreed to this, knowing that the consequences of not following the rules of the court would be severely consequential to her directly. I think that this is a terrible position that her own husband is putting her in. She is the one that is going to be spending the majority of the time with Josh alone. I can't believe that she's not worried about her own physical safety. Not that he might try to molest her, per say, but what if she caught him doing something unsavory and she was to try to report it and she was at home alone with him. There's not enough friendship in the world that would make me participate in this. Sorry.....

Someone also mentioned upthread that this woman is the piano teacher. Is she just going to stop earning a living for the next 6 month to a year while Josh is living in the house with them? I've seen on other threads where the community is extremely protective of the Duggar clan and will go to whatever lengths necessary to keep him out of jail. When I say the community, I'm referring to several counties in northern Arkansas. Some people are concerned that if this went to trial, there's no way they'd ever get a conviction, which is incredible, given how damning the evidence against him is.

The one thing that no one mentioned in court was the amount of the bail. They did discuss that Josh was paying for GPS monitoring in order to be out. The family did tell the court that they were not receiving any monetary benefit for allowing Josh to stay in their home. There hasn't been any indication anywhere about how much bond (if any) that Josh had to put up. I'm just going to say that if we have to wonder, then there is reason to doubt that he didn't pay a dime, and that opens a whole discussion about privilege. But that's belongs in the PI thread. It's just something to keep in mind.

Emily also said something else that I knew in the back of my mind, but wouldn't swear to it because I'm not a lawyer. She's a former CA Asst District Attorney, so she knows better than me. Paraphrasing her, if the Feds bring charges against you, the evidence is strong, and he will only be able to fight it and win on two fronts. The first would be if there was an evidentiary issue, meaning that evidence was collected improperly and didn't follow procedure and secondly, if they are able to prove that it wasn't him on the computer. The second theory goes out the window, considering that the investigator got on the stand and said that the log-ins used on these websites were Josh's own birthday, the same ones he used to access his banking info. You can't get more incriminating than that......It looks like there's a plea deal in his future, and he will get less time if they can get some of the evidence thrown out.

I believe the courts could get it removed to another venue if they felt the jury was prejudiced.

As for putting ones husband above all else I think it depends? I think good parents prioritize their marriage because I think it’s good for the kids when the parents have a great marriage.

But they shouldn’t be doing such in a way that puts their children in ️ or ignores responsibilities toward the kids. Any good parent should leave it their kids are in danger.

 

[MacMadame]

Emily (from video) gives a very good account about why Josh was released from jail, but I don't feel good about it. Josh knew about these possible charges for more than a year and half. If he was going to flee, he had a passport, he had siblings that fly planes and have access to them. He has the funds (from Jim Bob). Josh's lawyer's point was that it he was going to flee he would have done it already.

I don't buy this reasoning. I think the whole clan was sure that nothing would come of it, that Josh would weasel out of it just like he did the molestation charges. If at any point they are disabused of that notion, he will be gone.

I also think he's a threat to the community and I didn't buy the argument that was on that Reddit thread to the contrary.

 

[quartz]

The community that is sheltering Josh likely has a few others that are hiding some twisted shit, and protecting Josh also protects them.
And if its more important to save your marriage than to save your children, you should reconsider having children.

 

[skatfan]

While there is nothing in Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christianity that explicitly "supports molesting kids" per se, there is plenty in it that enables child molestation and pedophilia, just as there is in Roman Catholicism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/31/feature/the-epidemic-of-denial-about-sexual-abuse-in-the-evangelical-church/

Of course in some parts of Christianity there are plenty of enablers, but those do not usually have strict policies and procedures about contact with children. And the Roman Catholic Church self-insures, which is how the abuse continues.

 

[FiveRinger]

I don't buy this reasoning. I think the whole clan was sure that nothing would come of it, that Josh would weasel out of it just like he did the molestation charges. If at any point they are disabused of that notion, he will be gone.

I also think he's a threat to the community and I didn't buy the argument that was on that Reddit thread to the contrary.

I don't personally agree with it. This is how the reasoning would go for determining release from custody. Personally I think he should be thrown in a swamp of crocodiles, but that's another story.

The video have some legal reasoning as for why things went as they did. Unfortunately even the worst criminals are allowed due process.

 

[MacMadame]

The video have some legal reasoning as for why things went as they did.

I only read the Reddit article and it gave the legal reasoning. I'm saying I disagree with their conclusion.

I understand that the accused should be granted bail if they are not a flight risk, for example. But I think Josh Dugar is a flight risk. Their reasoning for why he is not one is flawed. He has the means and the support to flee and hasn't yet because of his own arrogance not because he wouldn't flee if he thought he needed to. Everything in his actions shows he does what he needs to in order to protect himself and that could at some point include fleeing.

You are also supposed to deny bail if the accused is a danger to the community. I think his actions in evading discovery by his wife show that he will do whatever it takes to fulfill his needs and that means he is a danger to her and everyone else he comes into contact with.

So using the same legal criteria and same evidence, I have come to a different conclusion.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Josh Duggar child porn case: All the restrictions he's under while out on bond

While Judge Christy Comstock made the point multiple times Wednesday that the charges against him are very serious — and noted that the approximate ages of the children in the material downloaded in May 2019 "are very close to the ages of your children," who range from age 11 to 18 months — she allowed him to be released on bail. It was a personal recognizance or PR bond, meaning Duggar wasn't required to post any money, despite a Homeland Security Investigations special agent testifying that the downloads on Duggar's computer are the "worst of the worst" of child pornography.

Maria testified that she barely knows Josh, having only said hello to him a few times, but agreed to house him because her husband agreed to it. In her testimony, she expressed concern about being left alone with Duggar because, charges aside, she's uncomfortable being alone with a member of the opposite sex other than her husband. However, she said her daughter, who is in her young 20s, would be with her the majority of the time.

Faulkner is also expected to testify about his interview with Duggar during the raid, including how, before the agents said what they were searching for, Duggar asked, "What is this about? Has someone been downloading child pornography?" He also allegedly admitted to having installed a dark web browser on the desktop.

Call me crazy but if the Feds came and raided my business or home, the first thing I would be saying is "what's going on! why are you here! what are you looking for!". But this statement right here straight outta Josh's mouth is gonna be his grounds of "but it wasn't me!" and how a jury (that will be selected from that general area where the Duggars are revered), will get found not guilty. Again, I won't be shocked at all if he walks away from this with no punishment whatsoever.

 

[Yazmeen]

Derick Dillard: Jim Bob Duggar uses 'scare tactics' on Jill's siblings

Derick, 32, said he and Jill, 29, were 'told to keep filming and keep our mouths shut,' and he implied some of Jill's siblings want to leave but have their own 'fears/threats.'

www.google.com

Jill and her husband, Derick Dillard, have basically been estranged from her parents since they finally had enough and bowed out of "Counting On," the series that TLC came up with after they had to drop the original one due to Josh's previous molestation incidents. Derick was especially tired of Jim-Bob calling the shots and also keeping all the money. Rather interesting, isn't it, that a man who firmly believes the husband is the head of the household and should make all the rules would not allow his son-in-laws to have that same power with his daughters when it meant he might have to share the profits...

 

[FiveRinger]

Josh Duggar child porn case: All the restrictions he's under while out on bond

Call me crazy but if the Feds came and raided my business or home, the first thing I would be saying is "what's going on! why are you here! what are you looking for!". But this statement right here straight outta Josh's mouth is gonna be his grounds of "but it wasn't me!" and how a jury (that will be selected from that general area where the Duggars are revered), will get found not guilty. Again, I won't be shocked at all if he walks away from this with no punishment whatsoever.

I heard all of that when I watched my above referenced video. I think that it's a public disgrace that he was released without having to remit a single dime in bond, with all of the allegations and the fact that his children are of similar age. I'm sure that the judge was elected to the bench and is a part of the community. I should be surprised, but I'm not. And I agree, conviction will be difficult. Finding impartial jurors in that part of the world will monumental, if possible at all.

 

[skategal]

I was reading on the Reddit thread and someone said that 96% of Federal cases result in guilty verdicts (either through pleading guilty or trial) because the Feds don’t bring charges without iron-clad cases.

Let’s hope that is true.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I think it will be harder for him to escape conviction than you fear. The jury will see the images, the images that are among the worse the FBI has ever seen.

 

[Judy]

I was only sort of defending her with the child stuff saying she may have felt he did as a child past that portion. I would have left with him with the Madison stuff I wonder if the family disclosed that past to her when she Married if it wasn’t- she would have annulment grounds in the Catholic Church.

However now I have no defense. I can understand why the family would be quiet publically

However I think if she is supporting him being around her kids and not in jail she is cupulbale now.

My former brother-in-law was a detective with child luring/pornography. My husband who is his brother found child pornogrphy on a students laptop (works at a college as tech and was fixing the latop) and testified at his trial. I asked him if what he found was bad which ofcourse it was. He was very upset and shaken about it.

The combinations of what this guy did - the sisters, the Ashley Madison stuff and now the pornography ... you do not want to allow this man access to these children. She sounds extremely naive. He’s dangerous.

I never watched the show and I only googled a bit of background.

 

[becca]

My former brother-in-law was a detective with child luring/pornography. My husband who is his brother found child pornogrphy on a students laptop (works at a college as tech and was fixing the latop) and testified at his trial. I asked him if what he found was bad which ofcourse it was. He was very upset and shaken about it.

The combinations of what this guy did - the sisters, the Ashley Madison stuff and now the pornography ... you do not want to allow this man access to these children. She sounds extremely naive. He’s dangerous.

I never watched the show and I only googled a bit of background.

Personally I think reality tv shows with children depicting family life like that is abusive. I agree he is dangerous and I would have left him when the stuff about sisters and Madison stuff came out

 

[Prancer]

Again, I won't be shocked at all if he walks away from this with no punishment whatsoever.

I will be. And I will be shocked even if his trial isn't moved out of the area.

 

[starrynight]

I think a concern is how long will he get in prison anyway? A handful of years at most I'll bet.

And then after those years, he will probably stand up in church and give (another) testimony about how god has cured him and all his family will be required to stand up and publicly 'offer up their forgiveness' (again).

So Anna is going to have to deal with that at some point, him getting convicted and jailed is not going to get him out of her life.

 

[overedge]

The thing I keep thinking about Anna leaving him is that she probably won't go without the kids. Imagine the sheer logistics of going anywhere with six kids, ranging from an 11-year-old to a toddler. Getting all those kids ready to leave, getting enough transportation, finding somewhere to stay even temporarily.....not to mention that she's pregnant and probably exhausted already

ETA: Further to the link @BaileyCatts posted - the wife of the household where Josh is staying barely knows him, but agreed to house him because her husband said so? I wonder at what point the husband told her that Josh needed a place to stay because he was out on bail for possessing images of children being abused

 

[skategal]

The thing I keep thinking about Anna leaving him is that she probably won't go without the kids. Imagine the sheer logistics of going anywhere with six kids, ranging from an 11-year-old to a toddler. Getting all those kids ready to leave, getting enough transportation, finding somewhere to stay even temporarily.....not to mention that she's pregnant and probably exhausted already

ETA: Further to the link @BaileyCatts posted - the wife of the household where Josh is staying barely knows him, but agreed to house him because her husband said so? I wonder at what point the husband told her that Josh needed a place to stay because he was out on bail for possessing images of children being abused

According to Rachel Denhollander’s Twitter, the wife had to appear before the judge and agree to have Josh stay with them.

So she definitely knew by that point in time.