David Wilson Calls for New Leadership at Skate Canada

Judy

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Phil Hersh agrees with Mr. Wilson:


However,the Canadians here resolutely disagree with David Wilson's opinion. Perhaps the more pertinent question is when will the government and Canadian federation permit Canadian skaters to compete domestically? Is it not a disservice to hardworking Canadian skaters? They aren't allowed to compete,while their rivals in other nations do so.

-BB
Once we are vaccinated. I have no idea what is going on next week, never mind 6 months from now.

Mos Canadians agree/disagree because we live here. But we aren’t personally in control of the govt and Skate Canada.

I’m beginning to think this thread is just to provoke arguements.
 

Willin

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Seriously? You don't think there are hotels in Canada that are full of empty rooms and eager to host a big competition? I find that hard to believe. In fact, I will state categorically that it would have been possible to hold Canadian Nationals in another location without SC losing their shirts.




I am somewhat amused by the idea that USFS is rolling in dough compared to SC btw. USFS is not a rich organization. They are a largely volunteer organization with few paid staff just like SC. SC has sponsors just like USFS and could have worked with them just like USFS. You say that USFS gives more money to its elite skaters but USFS puts a lot less money into recreational skaters compared to SC. Who pays the expenses for their synchro teams doesn't say which organization has more money only what they prioritize.


I am also not that impressed with how Canada (or Australia for that matter) is handling C19 now. Yes, they shut down early and hard and I approve of that. But after you get the v1rus under control, you are supposed to open up and then control outbreaks with contact tracing and quarantining. Both of these countries say they are only trying to suppress but they are pursuing a de facto strategy of elimination. Which is only possible if the entire world is doing that or you close your borders to anyone for a long, long time like years.

There are way more ways to handle a pand*mic wrong than right. You can not shut down enough in the beginning (or at all) like Sweden, Russia, and a lot of the US. You can shut down hard but then open up too early (California). You can shut down hard but not open back up when cases are low and can be handled via quarantines (Canada and Australia). And probably a few other ways to screw up that I'm not thinking of.

There are a few countries that shut down hard, built up contact tracing and other resources, and then opened up and when there is an outbreak they are on it like white on rice and everyone impacted gets quarantined so it doesn't spread. Those countries are now having large gatherings without everyone being vaccinated and their economies are chugging along. The rest of us are screwed.
As far as I know there's no hotel in Canada like the Orleans that has a directly-attached regulation-sized rink accessible by a separate elevator shaft to maintain separation from the other hotel guests?

I'm saying they do this explicitly because Skate Canada doesn't have the money to. It's not a secret to those of us who did competitive synchro in the US or Canada. Plenty of US synchro skaters dream of going to Canada because of their elite teams only to have their dreams shot down by how much they'd have to pay due to SC's lack of funds. USFS has the money. And, no, they don't just have "a few" staffers, they have somewhere between 25-50 people on payroll (I know a couple). That's the size of a small company. USFS also has a lot more members and clubs paying into it than Skate Canada. It also has the money to own its own HQ building and run its own museum. I'm not saying USFS is rich. I'm just saying it has a lot more money to spare than Skate Canada.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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I believe that Skate Canada's revenues have also dropped in recent years because not as many skaters are taking tests. In the new Star 1-10 classifications for freeskate, dance, and skills, coaches do the assessments up to and including Star 5, not a judge or a panel. So only skaters at the higher levels are doing tests where they pay a test fee, and there are fewer and fewer of those skaters.
 

fan

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I worked in professional sponsorship for years. companies sponsor when organizations have assets to offer. they are now mostly going beyond rinkboards - they want access. Ie cnd tire would be smart to access skate can’s mailing list to incent product trial. Skate can doesn’t offer this, so they miss out on lucrative deals. They are thinking ‘80s, when companies would sponsor due to guaranteed media spots. In the 2020s, companies are cutting down on media because it doesn’t pay off. Skate can doesn’t get it
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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@fan I think SC can't offer access to its mailing list because of Canadian privacy laws. Organizations like SC can only use member data for purposes related to membership. If they want to share that info with sponsors or other external parties, they have to get each member's explicit consent at the time the member joins.
 

Colonel Green

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From that tweet he doesn't so much agree with Wilson as he has attached unrelated criticisms of the federation to what Wilson was talking about (the "developing new talent" thing I think is unfounded, in particular; to the extent that federations can control such things, they've caught a lengthy series of unlucky breaks in the last half-decade).
Is it not a disservice to hardworking Canadian skaters?
Is it not a disservice to hardworking skaters to endanger their health by holding potentially unsafe competitions? Not to mention everyone around them?
 

Judy

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I believe that Skate Canada's revenues have also dropped in recent years because not as many skaters are taking tests. In the new Star 1-10 classifications for freeskate, dance, and skills, coaches do the assessments up to and including Star 5, not a judge or a panel. So only skaters at the higher levels are doing tests where they pay a test fee, and there are fewer and fewer of those skaters.
Skate Canada is a non-profit so they also get funding from govt.

They certainly have money.
 

fan

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@fan I think SC can't offer access to its mailing list because of Canadian privacy laws. Organizations like SC can only use member data for purposes related to membership. If they want to share that info with sponsors or other external parties, they have to get each member's explicit consent at the time the member joins.
You’d be surprised at how many people don’t read the fine print when they’re signing up for a “contest” or giveaway.
 

screech

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I believe that Skate Canada's revenues have also dropped in recent years because not as many skaters are taking tests. In the new Star 1-10 classifications for freeskate, dance, and skills, coaches do the assessments up to and including Star 5, not a judge or a panel. So only skaters at the higher levels are doing tests where they pay a test fee, and there are fewer and fewer of those skaters.
They've also lost a lot of skaters from the non-Central Ontario regions when they joined all Ontario sections into one region. I know in Northern Ontario in particular, the amalgamation of the 4 sections has led to a huge decrease in the number of skaters. So they're losing some revenue there as well. (That's not to say there wasn't a decline before that, however combining the 4 regions has had a hugely negative effect in numbers, and therefore revenue, in the north).

Anyway, I agree with those who are saying that due to government regulations, there was no feasible way for Canadians to take place. We can bitch and moan all we want, but that is not the fault of Skate Canada. It completely sucks, and I wish Canadians was happening, but there was no way for it to happen this year. I'm sure that they are using this as a learning experience (as will other sports) and they are preparing multiple contingency plans for next year, in case we find ourselves in the same situation.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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You’d be surprised at how many people don’t read the fine print when they’re signing up for a “contest” or giveaway.
Believe me, I know. But if the organization didn't get the member's consent, they can't hand over the member's data. A few years ago one section of SC gave some of its member data (email addresses of members in a specific demographic) to a sponsor for a promotion, and a lot of the recipients complained about the unsolicited messages. It hasn't happened since.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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Skate Canada is a non-profit so they also get funding from govt.

They certainly have money.

They get 15% of their funding from government. Almost half of their revenue is from membership and test fees. And no, right now they don't have money. Their 2020 financial summary is on page 8 of this report. Last year their expenditures exceeded their revenues by almost 1.5 million dollars.

 

Dave of the North

Digging up dead relatives since 1992
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There's two separate issues here, which IMO David Wilson's statement has mixed up. (1) Skate Canada's leadership, a

However, there are long-standing problems with Skate Canada's leadership. They made the right decision in this case, but that doesn't mean they do a great job the rest of the time. Yes, the president does live in another country (Switzerland: https://skatecanada.ca/portfolio-item/board-of-directors/) but that's the least of its problems. From what I understand, not unlike other federations, in the upper ranks of Skate Canada "you get along by going along", i.e. the culture discourages dissenting opinions, and those who express them are marginalized and not taken seriously, even when what they have to say is important.

12 directors, 10 of them in Ont and Que, 1 in Atlantic, one in BC. There's a lot of committees...I imagine they might spend a lot of time wrangling about overlapping responsibilities...

At least they would have saved some money not having to fly Caron back and forth to Canada since March.

My perception: US Figure Skating went at it this way: "What do we need to do to hold these events effectively and safely". They were probably working on this from the summer.

Skate Canada "Gee I hope they let us have these events. We'll put out more hand sanitizer and everyone will wear masks"
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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Without diminishing the seriousness of Shpilevaya's situation, she became ill in July. Russia has held many events and the only one that we have heard about as a potential issue is Rostelecom
I don't think that's true. People watching the streaming of the various RSSF events were complaining about loose C19 protocols. People not wearing masks properly, spectators not social distancing, etc.

Travel costs alone would be quite a bit higher, and air travel in Canada is expensive at the best of times.
Skate Canada isn't paying that though.

And no Health Authority in Canada has said that they are pursuing an elimination strategy for CV
Australia says the same. I still think they are pursuing an elimination strategy based on what I read and hear from our teammate who lives there.

Certainly not this year on the spur of the moment.
Which is why I said they should have anticipated this and had contingency plans including moving it to an area that is was least likely to have issue much sooner.

Well you are making a lot of assumptions. Canada shut dow hard then did a colour zoned reopening that is different for each province.
So did California. I can assure you that our two approaches are not comparable. :D

And, no, they don't just have "a few" staffers, they have somewhere between 25-50 people on payroll (I know a couple). That's the size of a small company. USFS also has a lot more members and clubs paying into it than Skate Canada.
25-30 staffers and at least 100,000 volunteers. Not to mention, the population of the US is almost 10x what Canada is. I would expect USFS to be bigger than SC if you don't do a per capita comparison. But relative to the populations they serve and compared to the big money sports, USFS is not a large organization and not particularly well-funded.
 

Judy

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They get 15% of their funding from government. Almost half of their revenue is from membership and test fees. And no, right now they don't have money. Their 2020 financial summary is on page 8 of this report. Last year their expenditures exceeded their revenues by almost 1.5 million dollars.

There are also financial support for businesses for covid. I don’t have a business so I never looked into it. I can guarantee you that a lot of businesses are struggling this year.
 

Colonel Green

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My perception: US Figure Skating went at it this way: "What do we need to do to hold these events effectively and safely". They were probably working on this from the summer.

Skate Canada "Gee I hope they let us have these events. We'll put out more hand sanitizer and everyone will wear masks"
What is that perception based on, exactly?

Also, Skate Canada put a lot of work into hosting their virtual Challenge, so they very obviously were not just hoping things would work out.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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There are also financial support for businesses for *********. I don’t have a business so I never looked into it. I can guarantee you that a lot of businesses are struggling this year.

I'm aware of that. But Skate Canada is not a business, it's a not-for-profit organization. The only not-for-profit Canadian organizations that are getting any substantial government support during the p*nd*m*c are the ones that are supplying essential services to people affected by the v*r*s. Not sport organizations.
 

vu2019

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MsZem

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Is it not a disservice to hardworking skaters to endanger their health by holding potentially unsafe competitions? Not to mention everyone around them?
By now it is clear that it is possible to hold skating competitions and other sporting events without endangering the health of those involved. Skate Canada couldn’t, or wouldn't, take the necessary steps to do so - but this doesn't make skating events in the time of CV inherently unsafe.
 

Japanfan

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SC’s is with CBC.

CTV covers Skate Canada and Nationals (I've not heard that it will not be doing so in future).

CBC had a contract for Worlds for a number of years, but it expired and was not renewed. The only reason CBC was to broadcast Montreal Worlds was that the host country needs to provide a host broadcaster.

Probably no more Canadian coverage of Worlds in the foreseeable future. Thank goodness for You Tube and Eurosport.
 

nlloyd

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By now it is clear that it is possible to hold skating competitions and other sporting events without endangering the health of those involved. Skate Canada couldn’t, or wouldn't, take the necessary steps to do so - but this doesn't make skating events in the time of CV inherently unsafe.
Clearly Canadian public health officers do not share your optimism as it is they who have outlawed these kind of events. We really need to let the medical experts guide us on this one and not sporting federations or FSU members.
 

aka_gerbil

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CTV covers Skate Canada and Nationals (I've not heard that it will not be doing so in future).

CBC had a contract for Worlds for a number of years, but it expired and was not renewed. The only reason CBC was to broadcast Montreal Worlds was that the host country needs to provide a host broadcaster.

Probably no more Canadian coverage of Worlds in the foreseeable future. Thank goodness for You Tube and Eurosport.
I did not realize that.

I’m still guessing NBC has deeper pockets though.
 

MsZem

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Clearly Canadian public health officers do not share your optimism as it is they who have outlawed these kind of events.
Clearly public health officials in many other countries do not share the views of those in Canada, as they have not outlawed these kinds of events. This is not about whether sports events can be held safely (in many places they can), it's about what different people/authorities consider acceptable risk. We accept some risk as inherent to most sports, but given the nature of CV I do understand why some want the risk to be zero. Personally I don't think that's sustainable, but I'm not making decisions for others.

We really need to let the medical experts guide us on this one and not sporting federations or FSU members.
This is like people saying "follow the science", as if science is one thing that never evolves. There isn't a consensus on what the right approach is, beyond "don't let this thing run rampant."
 

skategal

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Clearly public health officials in many other countries do not share the views of those in Canada, as they have not outlawed these kinds of events.
That's because the epidemiology and health care capacity and acceptable risk is different in all of those places.

We even have big differences even in Canada with what each province has in place for public health restrictions and it is all being driven by health care capacity.

The poorer provinces and Canada's north have almost none to take on a pandemic so they have much more strict regulations because they don't want to kill the health care system.

Unless you have a government that doesn't care and wants to open everything, it will always be a different analysis based on different epidemiology and risk in each place around the world.
 

_Lola_

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Russia has vaccinated approximately 4 million people as of the most recent figures. Every person helps, of course, but nowhere near enough to insure that it's safe to hold events the way they have been.

Access to vaccine was the key word. Those who wanted could get a shot (two shots, to be exact) and feel safe, in addition to those who already had antibodies. If I was in Russia, I would go and get the shots, and would attend the events. I wouldn't attend them without vaccination.

I just feel that I can relate to what David Wilson said. I assume that since he's a Canadian and is criticizing the management, he has some ground.
 

skategal

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Australia says the same. I still think they are pursuing an elimination strategy based on what I read and hear from our teammate who lives there.


Which is why I said they should have anticipated this and had contingency plans including moving it to an area that is was least likely to have issue much sooner.
We have thousands of cases in Canada each day and the medical community is losing their minds because provinces are reopening to fast. That doesn't sound much like an elimination strategy to me.

Even where I live which has almost no cases, our MOH keeps saying we don't have an elimination strategy and we open up as health care capacity and epidemiology allows (just FYI....things are very open here. We are at 75% capacity opening of everything and have had in-person school since Sept.)

Re Skate Canada:

1. How do you know they didn't try to move the event?
2. Where could they move it to?

The earliest they could anticipate problems would have been summer.

As we have already said, rinks across the country were still closed in summer.

Public health was inundated with Back to School plans at that time and the the upcoming Hockey season discussions were in full-swing.

Skate Canada would have known for sure by October when Skate Canada was cancelled. But again, where to move it?

By October the only obvious place to move it was Alberta and they were planning the World Junior Hockey, all the other Hockey leagues seasons were a mess, ice-time was in high demand and any team that had any was not planning to move out for skating.

Hockey season schedules are developed months in advance. They need lead time to schedule the teams away from the arenas so other events can happen.

Also, detailed public health safety plans have to be submitted months in advance to Public Health to get approval for any event to take place.

Honestly, by the time the Skate Canada knew it was time to seek a new venue, it was too late.
 

MsZem

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That's because the epidemiology and health care capacity and acceptable risk is different in all of those places.

We even have big differences even in Canada with what each province has in place for public health restrictions and it is all being driven by health care capacity.
Yes. Cases adjusted to population size are higher in several of the countries that have held Nationals/domestic competitions than they are in Canada, see here (admittedly I did not check province-level data). As I wrote, this isn't about one right answer health-wise, it's about different approaches to risk and managing the CV situation.
 

Judy

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Access to vaccine was the key word. Those who wanted could get a shot (two shots, to be exact) and feel safe, in addition to those who already had antibodies. If I was in Russia, I would go and get the shots, and would attend the events. I wouldn't attend them without vaccination.

I just feel that I can relate to what David Wilson said. I assume that since he's a Canadian and is criticizing the management, he has some ground.
I respect Wilson and Orser. I know nothing about the head of Skate Canada.

Our govt at all levels (liberal and conservative) has made it clear that the most important thing to them is protecting lives and working with Canadian Public Health.
 

Judy

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I'm aware of that. But Skate Canada is not a business, it's a not-for-profit organization. The only not-for-profit Canadian organizations that are getting any substantial government support during the p*nd*m*c are the ones that are supplying essential services to people affected by the v*r*s. Not sport organizations.
Well my friend works for a non-profit in Ottawa and they have had access to it.
 

_Lola_

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I respect Wilson and Orser. I know nothing about the head of Skate Canada.

Our govt at all levels (liberal and conservative) has made it clear that the most important thing to them is protecting lives and working with Canadian Public Health.
I have been watching NHL games taking place in Canada. I have just checked how many games will take place tomorrow, Feb 15th. 3 games for Canadian teams: Ottawa - Toronto, Winnipeg - Edmonton and Calgary - Vancouver. This is just for one day. I think the whole Canadian figure skating championships is equal to these three games in terms of number of involved people. I understand that hockey has different kind of money, but it has also different scale in terms of number of involved people. It's just difficult to buy the argument re protecting lives when hockey season continues, and hockey is a group sport and in that respect is much more risky than figure skating. If you follow hockey, you know that they constantly talk about players sent to quarantine. For some reason, they find this risk acceptable - in Canada.
 

sap5

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We have thousands of cases in Canada each day and the medical community is losing their minds because provinces are reopening to fast. That doesn't sound much like an elimination strategy to me.

Even where I live which has almost no cases, our MOH keeps saying we don't have an elimination strategy and we open up as health care capacity and epidemiology allows (just FYI....things are very open here. We are at 75% capacity opening of everything and have had in-person school since Sept.)

Re Skate Canada:

1. How do you know they didn't try to move the event?
2. Where could they move it to?

The earliest they could anticipate problems would have been summer.

As we have already said, rinks across the country were still closed in summer.

Public health was inundated with Back to School plans at that time and the the upcoming Hockey season discussions were in full-swing.

Skate Canada would have known for sure by October when Skate Canada was cancelled. But again, where to move it?

By October the only obvious place to move it was Alberta and they were planning the World Junior Hockey, all the other Hockey leagues seasons were a mess, ice-time was in high demand and any team that had any was not planning to move out for skating.

Hockey season schedules are developed months in advance. They need lead time to schedule the teams away from the arenas so other events can happen.

Also, detailed public health safety plans have to be submitted months in advance to Public Health to get approval for any event to take place.

Honestly, by the time the Skate Canada knew it was time to seek a new venue, it was too late.
You keep posting about how hockey has such a priority over figure skating, and I’m wondering why that is? Canada won the team medal in 2018– you’d think that would stir some national pride in figure skating and the country would want to encourage people to join the sport. But it seems that you’re saying that the country prioritizes hockey over skating, and that to me is a huge failure in a country where figure skating should be a big deal.

This is not a Federation problem— it’s a national one. If local governments are doing what they can to keep hockey going, why aren’t they doing the same for figure skating?
 

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