ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[Erin]

Link? And are we sure that the concern for athlete safety isn't related to the increasingly violent lockdown protests that have been occurring in the Netherlands in the last week or so?

It’s on Phil Hersh’s Twitter.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I have been wanting the ISU to change its selection process anyway for the following Worlds. Too bad it might take a horrible ********* to do just that

I was going to make the comment that whatever happens with worlds, maybe it is time to rethink how spots are qualified. Not unlimited, but maybe make a path for some of these top skaters who should be at worlds but the depth within country is so steep. I'd rather see 4 Russian pairs or 4 US ice dance teams who are all deserving be there.

 

[Dobre]

As always, I think we're lucky to have three. Enough for the podium if the athletes are actually the best in the World. A number of sports only allow countries to qualify two competitors.

 

[Marco]

Marco, this whole post is ridiculous, at least with respect to the rest of the world's actions in Feb 2020. We had a US President who was roundly criticized for being a xenophobe when he instituted a travel ban from China a year ago. This was being politicized even then and there is no way that mandatory hotel quarantines would have been accepted in the US at that time.

Mandatory hotel quarantine isn't about banning travel. It is about quarantining them for a set period of time (e.g. 14 days based on conventional practices) upon arrival before allowing them into the community in order to contain infection from foreign travelers or returning citizens. It should be applied equally to all incoming travelers whether they are a tourist or a citizen, so it is not a matter of discrimination. And it isn't just about Feb 2020 but should be the case all the time - for instance it would likely have kept other countries from the new versions of the virus from UK and South Africa. This could be done more easily at a city level, but probably logistically harder at a state or country level for larger countries, unless coupled with the bubble concept.

My original post was not targeted at another specific country, but since you brought it up, what's really ridiculous is that your ex-president was the one downplaying the entire situation, not having a solid plan for your people, shutting the mouth of the expert, not making a vaccine plan for the country and making crazy claims like suggesting injecting bleach. I think it was him who made plausible concepts not accepted in the US at that time.

 

[Karen-W]

Mandatory hotel quarantine isn't about banning travel. It is about quarantining them for a set period of time (e.g. 14 days based on conventional practices) upon arrival before allowing them into the community in order to contain infection from foreign travelers or returning citizens. It should be applied equally to all incoming travelers whether they are a tourist or a citizen, so it is not a matter of discrimination. And it isn't just about Feb 2020 but should be the case all the time - for instance it would likely have kept other countries from the new versions of the ***** from UK and South Africa. This could be done more easily at a city level, but probably logistically harder at a state or country level for larger countries, unless coupled with the bubble concept.

My original post was not targeted at another specific country, but since you brought it up, what's really ridiculous is that your ex-president was the one downplaying the entire situation, not having a solid plan for your people, shutting the mouth of the expert, not making a vaccine plan for the country and making crazy claims like suggesting injecting bleach. I think it was him who made plausible concepts not accepted in the US at that time.

The problem with your original post is that it really fails to grasp one critically key point about western democracies - there is a strong value placed on individual civil liberties, to the extent that it's hard to infringe upon them for the "greater community good", and this is especially true in many parts of the US but hardly limited to the US (I'll point to the ongoing lockdown protests in France and the Netherlands, among other nations, as well as the limitations embedded in the Swedish Constitution mentioned by others in this discussion that have directed a fair amount of the Swedish government's unwillingness/inability to impose mandatory or highly restrictive lockdowns). So, your suggestion that how Hong Kong has handled/approached the pandemic is better, while all well and good, is simply not feasible in most western democracies. Society won't allow it - "live free or die" isn't just a saying, it is, quite literally, a way of life and a deeply ingrained mentality.

As far as my country's ex-president is concerned, you have your narrative that you choose to believe and I'm quite positive that you wouldn't be open to any information, quotes or evidence that doesn't fit that narrative. Suffice it to say, he was hardly the only politician downplaying the entire situation a year ago or suggesting things like mask-wearing as unnecessary (that came out of the mouth of the unmuzzled expert less than a year ago), or the outstanding pandemic planning left by the preceding administration (heaven forbid you listen to experts/staffers from that administration admit their epic fail handling swine flu) or any other crazy shit that has gone on in the last year. It's not as though this information isn't readily available for anyone who cares to seek it out, though it might be rather hard to find with the ongoing suppression of news, websites and voices that dare to challenge one political party's platform.

 

[misskarne]

No Japan = No Hanyu = No money, let's be honest.

Look, I'm the first person to say I hate the way Fanyus act like he's bigger than the sport, but the ISU cannot afford to lose the income source that is Japan. If it's also true that Canada is hesitating, then the equation becomes even more simple. No Japan, no Canada - two big countries pulling out - no way it can be used as the Olympic qualifier at least.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The problem with your original post is that it really fails to grasp one critically key point about western democracies - there is a strong value placed on individual civil liberties, to the extent that it's hard to infringe upon them for the "greater community good"

Well I'm certainly glad we were able to see the "greater community good" here in Australia. While the UK has hit 100,000 deaths and the US is looking down the barrel of 500,000 by the time March comes, we've had 19 straight days of 0 community transmission here in my state. Other states are even more successful.

My grandparents have colds at the moment and that's all it is, not the Rona and thank God for that!

 

[rosewood]

Talking about Japan's not sending athletes to World Short Track Championships, I read an article in Japanese, and the article said that one of the reasons is that it's not the competition to decide the spots for Olys. I think the figure skating fed can make a different decision since FS Worlds decide the Olys spots.

 

[cholla]

I'll point to the ongoing lockdown protests in France

Ongoing lockdown protests in France? Could you please point more precisely to what you are referring to?

 

[Karen-W]

Ongoing lockdown protests in France? Could you please point more precisely to what you are referring to?

Sorry - I must have misread a recent article (earlier this week) about the protests in the Netherlands that said there were still protests also occurring in Paris. Are those just the standard civil unrest that Paris has (not unlike the never-ending protests we see in Portland and Seattle all the time) rather than lockdown related?

 

[cholla]

Sorry - I must have misread a recent article (earlier this week) about the protests in the Netherlands that said there were still protests also occurring in Paris. Are those just the standard civil unrest that Paris has (not unlike the never-ending protests we see in Portland and Seattle all the time) rather than lockdown related?

There has been some protests regarding a specific law ('Global security') and some others organized by teachers and students. French protest 24/7 365 days a year about a million things. It's not civil unrest, it's every day life Protesting is actually a right mentioned in Penal Code. But amazingly enough, 2 lockdowns (and a 3rd looming over the horizon) haven't caused that much unrest. At least not directly like in Spain, Denmark and the Netherlands.

 

[Marco]

The problem with your original post is that it really fails to grasp one critically key point about western democracies - there is a strong value placed on individual civil liberties, to the extent that it's hard to infringe upon them for the "greater community good", and this is especially true in many parts of the US but hardly limited to the US (I'll point to the ongoing lockdown protests in France and the Netherlands, among other nations, as well as the limitations embedded in the Swedish Constitution mentioned by others in this discussion that have directed a fair amount of the Swedish government's unwillingness/inability to impose mandatory or highly restrictive lockdowns). So, your suggestion that how Hong Kong has handled/approached the ********* is better, while all well and good, is simply not feasible in most western democracies. Society won't allow it - "live free or die" isn't just a saying, it is, quite literally, a way of life and a deeply ingrained mentality.

That's exactly my point. I was pinpointing how the "strong value placed on individual civil liberties" in some western democracies as shown in certain posts in this thread is causing more problems in a pandemic situation by not cooperating and it is no coincidence that these countries are seeing more serious and uncontrolled cases. There is a line between individual rights and public interest. Anyone can choose to "live free or die", I just don't see how the family members or friends or neighbours of someone who breaks quarantine should have to bear the (health) consequence for his own display of freedom. Most countries already implement some form of quarantine, mostly home - If you think your people breaking home quarantine or not keeping up with protocols (masks, etc) - very common - is a matter of freedom, then perhaps your country shouldn't even impose home quarantine. They are easily broken undetected and are not effective, and according to you, goes against "live free or die". For me, if there is a point to impose quarantine, mandatory hotel quarantine is going to be more effective, if the primary consideration is safety.

Strictly in terms of logistics and commerce, I don't disagree that mandatory hotel quarantine is going to be hard to implement in some larger countries even if they wanted to, and as said upthread, some countries are already considering this. Evidently you think your country doesn't want to, it doesn't make those who did it or wanted to do it ridiculous. I don't disagree with what you said about societal observations but I do take offence that you called my post ridiculous.

Also, I am not here to dispute about your ex-president because as an outsider I see your country as whole and he was your representative. You can make assumptions and judgment about where I get my info about your country but even you admitted you read an article wrong.

 

[olympic]

I was going to make the comment that whatever happens with worlds, maybe it is time to rethink how spots are qualified. Not unlimited, but maybe make a path for some of these top skaters who should be at worlds but the depth within country is so steep. I'd rather see 4 Russian pairs or 4 US ice dance teams who are all deserving be there.

I am not in favor of increased spots for a country because that would drive down the ability of outsiders to compete and the sport would shift to focus on just a few countries. Three competitors max is OK with me. But I think the ISU may want to use BOW and a ranking system instead of one-shot qualification at the previous Worlds. IOW, x no. of skaters compete at Worlds (what is the no. 35? 40?). Whichever country has 3 skaters ranked w/in that 35-40 range of competitors will qualify 3 skaters, and they could choose to send any of the 3 within the aforementioned range, sorted out according to the rules of their Federation - Nationals, that own country's BOW requirements, Euros, test skates, 4CCs, etc. If a country has 2 skaters in that range, the same deal, and so on. It may be that a country like Russia, Japan, Korea, USA has far more than skaters in the top 35-40, and in order to fill all the slots in that 35-40 range, you must go further down the rankings and thus, many small countries have a shot

For me, this means a better chance of seeing the top skaters compete (max of 3 obviously) and not shut out for no fault of their own, just because their teammate had one bad skate at the previous Worlds, while at the same time allows a shot still for those further down the rankings list ...

 

[kwanfan1818]

The vast majority of protests in Seattle and Portland had zero to do with anything cv-related or lack of freedoms -- those were in the capital, Olympia and looked like many gun-totin protests in other US capital cities -- and almost everything to do with the murders of unarmed POC and the continuing cycle of police overreach -- Seattle's PD is still under Justice Department oversight because of abusive behaviors -- and recent reports of "riots" in both cities were news to us who lived here. Many of us heard about them from concerned friends and relatives around the country who wanted to know how we were doing, which confused the hell out of us.

The dangers when Proud Boys and their ilk show up can't be overstated, though.

 

[Carolla5501]

No Japan = No Hanyu = No money, let's be honest.

Look, I'm the first person to say I hate the way Fanyus act like he's bigger than the sport, but the ISU cannot afford to lose the income source that is Japan. If it's also true that Canada is hesitating, then the equation becomes even more simple. No Japan, no Canada - two big countries pulling out - no way it can be used as the Olympic qualifier at least.

Why???? They can have an entire Olympics game without Russia, without the US.. LOL! The IOC isn't really too worried about Hanyu, he isn't really that important to the overall payment for the Olympic games.

 

[Colonel Green]

Why???? They can have an entire Olympics game without Russia, without the US.. LOL! The IOC isn't really too worried about Hanyu, he isn't really that important to the overall payment for the Olympic games.

The IOC wasn’t mentioned, it was the ISU.

 

[TAHbKA]

So what have they decided?

 

[Ka3sha]

So what have they decided?

Not cancelled, same dates, organizers proceed with preparations.

(no link yet, information from one of the Russian skating journalists
https://t.me/lapidarnst/823 )

 

[Miezekatze]

Theres an indoor track and field event in Germany this weekend with 160 athletes,i just found out.

They have a tracking system that tracks the movement of people in order to have better contact tracing among other things.

I think the biggest risk for Worlds are the news travel restrictions and border closings because of the mutations and whether there still will be exceptions for atlethes.

 

[clairecloutier]

Now a TASS link confirms the news--2021 Worlds to continue as planned:

Чемпионат мира по фигурному катанию пройдет в запланированные сроки

Турнир состоится в Стокгольме с 22 по 28 марта 2021 года

tass.ru

ETA: Independently confirmed by Phil Hersh:

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1354829856299737093

 

[Dave of the North]

Now a TASS link confirms the news--2021 Worlds to continue as planned:

Чемпионат мира по фигурному катанию пройдет в запланированные сроки

Турнир состоится в Стокгольме с 22 по 28 марта 2021 года

tass.ru

The best decision they can make now - everyone keeps preparing, and hope that the new cases continue to decline. Sweden's 7 day moving average has gone from 5306 on Dec 26 to 3084 as of Jan 26 (based on Worldmeter figures). The figure in Nevada was around 2000, or about 6500 if you equalize for population, and managed to have the event safely.

 

[once_upon]

Selfishly, im glad Worlds is happening because I want to watch. I hope that competitors are able to compete without having huge exposure

 

[Natanielle825]

Selfishly, im glad Worlds is happening because I want to watch. I hope that competitors are able to compete without having huge exposure

EVeryone feels that way, we all want a Worlds that could happen safely but not a Worlds in which people get sick.

 

[Carolla5501]

The IOC wasn’t mentioned, it was the ISU.

The statement was "no way it could be used as Olympic qualifier" and there's no reason it couldn't be. Just because Hanyu isn't there doesn't mean the ISU has to change the entire qualification system to accommodate him LOL!

If the ISU says "this is the qualifying event" and your country doesn't show then..... you didn't make the qualification.

 

[Lemonade20]

I'm glad it's going ahead! Stay healthy and have fun!

 

[tony]

If I were a betting man, I would say the ISU really wants Worlds to be a qualifier so they don't have to go through the work of figuring out a completely different system in the summer months-- for events that might not even run at 100% in the fall. And then what? There's a total mess. An all-inclusive Nebelhorn with potentially 50+ skaters in singles is clearly not what they want to be backed into.

We will see about these Federations that people believe will sit it out. Remember, Uno and Kihira, among others (right?) had to fly to Japan to get to Nationals as it was.

 

[Lemonade20]

If I were a betting man, I would say the ISU really wants Worlds to be a qualifier so they don't have to go through the work of figuring out a completely different system in the summer months-- for events that might not even run at 100% in the fall. And then what? There's a total mess. An all-inclusive Nebelhorn with potentially 50+ skaters in singles is clearly not what they want to be backed into.

We will see about these Federations that people believe will sit it out. Remember, Uno and Kihira (right?) had to fly to Japan to get to Nationals as it was.

True, it's a nightmare figuring the logistics of how to qualify during a p-demic. Is Nebelhorn the only option? There has to be a better idea.

 

[Karen-W]

True, it's a nightmare figuring the logistics of how to qualify during a p-demic. Is Nebelhorn the only option? There has to be a better idea.

Well, there are potentially better ideas (Tony has floated one) but it is doubtful the ISU would be able to adopt one very easily or quickly - I can only imagine the virtual ISU Congress this June if that was on the agenda.

 

[skategal]

Could they split the qualifying (1/2 at Nebelhorn and 1/2 at Finlandia?)

Just trying to brainstorm....

 

[tony]

Could they split the qualifying (1/2 at Nebelhorn and 1/2 at Finlandia?)

Just trying to brainstorm....

There are posters on this board and people in the world that will still be in the same place in September that they are now, thinking skaters either shouldn't travel at all and/or competitions should be shut down completely.

So I don't see how splitting between two events in late 2021 would be a better idea than waiting a few months to hold off cancelling Worlds and potentially pushing it back a month or two if need be.

Pushing everything to a later date, whether it's one sole event or between two events, still presents a risk of Canadians supposedly deciding they don't want to go- whether by the country itself, the federation, or the fans. Then what?