From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

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Spikefan

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It’s really hard to know if it’s worse. In Russia there are competitions almost every few weeks so we hear when someone has to withdraw due to illness. A lot of skaters in other countries may have also been positive or ill but there is nothing to withdraw from so it can be kept under wraps.
 

hanca

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I thought she was banned from competing, not "everything" in figure skating. I am sure if invited to skate in a show she will accept.
Also, following the initial information, Maria explained every point of the accusations, the main one was that at the time of testing and future testing attempts she was NOT a competitive skater. On the doctor's office "perjury" she also explained she did not know the legal status of that doctor's office. Since she is not planning to compete or be a member of any active skaters' organization, i guess the case was left as is.
I think if someone is banned by ISU, they are not allowed to skate at not only competitions but also at shows where eligible skaters skate. At least when Kostner was banned, it wasn’t only preventing her to compete, but it impacted also on where she was able to train and which shows she was able to do. I can’t see Sotskova being able to coach, because it would be a huge black dot against her students, if they were competing internationally.

You are right that Sotskova has explained what happened, and I do believe that ISU was unreasonable to test someone who was retired and has not competed for about a year at the time of the test; on the other hand, Sotskova could have avoided this problem if she had done her retirement paperwork. I find it unfortunate that something like this will make her career hard (if not impossible) because a stupid mistake of not filling paperwork should not mean that someone’s name is smeared and they are made equal to those who actually use not allowed substances to improve their results. Nevertheless, it still doesn’t change the fact that if ISU has decided she is banned, the restrictions for what she is allowed to do apply regardless of what actually had happened.
 

tony

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I think if someone is banned by ISU, they are not allowed to skate at not only competitions but also at shows where eligible skaters skate. At least when Kostner was banned, it wasn’t only preventing her to compete, but it impacted also on where she was able to train and which shows she was able to do. I can’t see Sotskova being able to coach, because it would be a huge black dot against her students, if they were competing internationally.
Kostner also came back as a medal contender and won the short at 2018 Worlds, so I don't really think Sotskova will have a black dot. This isn't a knee whack.
 

Bigbird

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I don't know who is worse to listen to with regards to the *********. Take your pick.
I just want these figure skaters to be more careful. I mean figure skating federation's in other countries or not having the problems Russia has in other countries in regards to c 19.
True. But other countries do not support their skaters financially. That's up to the parents, well- wishers and skaters themselves.

It is a difficult situation but one that must be handled with care. Many skaters worldwide will retire due to the onset of XYZ.
 

Bigbird

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Scott512

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True. But other countries do not support their skaters financially. That's up to the parents, well- wishers and skaters themselves.

It is a difficult situation but one that must be handled with care. Many skaters worldwide will retire due to the onset of XYZ.
Very true and your last sentence in your post really hurts. Sad but true.
 

Scott512

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Great. Now even greater balance and common sense.

I can imagine Eteri's grief. But on the other hand I can imagine her and Elena sitting Plushenko down and saying to him, "pull yourself together man don't respond to the troll! Have a bit more self respect." LOL.
I was disappointed about this news in only that I was hoping Yulia would go back to TT and reunite with EG Polina and Evgenia. But I hope the best for Yulia she deserves it.

Who knows maybe. Yulia will calm the situation down between PA and TT.
 

hanca

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Kostner also came back as a medal contender and won the short at 2018 Worlds, so I don't really think Sotskova will have a black dot. This isn't a knee whack.
Yes, but the difference is that Kostner came back AFTER she has done her punishment, so the ISU had no reason to hold grudges. As they saw it, she had been naughty and then she paid for it, so when she came back, the slate was clean. Whereas Sotskova would be coaching while she was being punished, which may also include attending international competitions with her students and therefore possibly breaking the rules of her punishment. That would be comparable to sticking her middle finger up to ISU and telling them to go F**K themselves. So I could see why they might want to hold grudges and have a black dot against her students.
 

Bigbird

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I was disappointed about this news in only that I was hoping Yulia would go back to TT and reunite with EG Polina and Evgenia. But I hope the best for Yulia she deserves it.

Who knows maybe. Yulia will calm the situation down between PA and TT.
That's my feeling. But there was too much bad blood between her and Eteri.

In my humble opinion coaches fall into two camps: Camp Eteri or Camp Moskvina. Julia, has too much character to work easily with an Eteri, so her decision to work with Plushenko makes sense.
 

Eislauffan

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Maria Sotskova
Maria Sotskova has not been banned as of now. You can check the list of disqualifications by RUSADA. Her case was still under investigation at the time Russian media reported that she faces a 10-year-ban.

Lisa Tuktamysheva
She is back training. Obviously she is recovered enough to resume training and she is not infectious anymore. She also was the only one that tested positive after Rostelecom Cup in Mishin's group. Sofia Samodurova, Anastasia Guliakova, Mikhail Kolyada, Evgeni Semenenko were not affected. Some Russian media reported otherwise, but they had no source, no proof of what they wrote.

Anastasia Gubanova
She did not get sick, but people she had contact with tested positive and therefore she spent weeks off the ice in quarantine and as a result had no chance to compete in the Russian Cup series. She told me this yesterday at the St. Petersburg Championships.

Safety at events in Russia
Corona safety measures were followed at the events. I was actually there in person and I think I can judge what I see. All participants (also officials and media) needed to provide a negative test in order to be allowed to come to the event. There were no spectators at the 5th Russian Cup event and at the St. Petersburg Championship. Most people wore their masks off the ice and also wore them correctly. At the award ceremonies, officials reminded the skaters not to shake hands or hug. Skaters took off the masks briefly for photos, but they was some distance between them. In St. Petersburg, masked officials presented the medals and trophies on a tray and the skaters took them themselves. In Moscow, medal presenters awarded the medals, but wore masks. How they do things at events has been all cleared with the respective health authorities and the rules differ between places. We had a discussion before Rostelecom Cup if journalists are allowed to eat in the press center as this means they need to take off their masks. Then the health authorities allowed to sell food in the press room and people were allowed to take of their masks to consume it.

When criticizing Russia please keep in mind that there are different rules in different countries. It is another question which rules are better. A lot depends also on the situation. As we say in German, "clean the dirt before your own door first".
Russia is actually doing not that bad on Bloomberg's list of the Covid Resilience Ranking - rank 22 out of 53.

If someone had Corona in the past, he is not infectious anymore. So it is ridiculous to say it is a danger for everyone when someone like Lisa Tuktamysheva travels on a plane. The danger is that people can be infectious before they develop symptoms, so they can spread the virus without knowing that they have it.

Edited to add: I do agree that holding the banquet at Rostelecom was not a great idea because it fuels the critics and it did not look good. Obviously, people did not wear masks. On the other hand only the "checked" people that were at the event were at he banquet. In any case the banquet was not a "super spreading" event. There has been no evidence of a mass of people falling sick afterwards. Dmitri Aliev wasn't even there. We don't know where Lisa Tuktamysheva caught the virus.
 
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Tinami Amori

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I was disappointed about this news in only that I was hoping Yulia would go back to TT and reunite with EG Polina and Evgenia. But I hope the best for Yulia she deserves it.

Who knows maybe. Yulia will calm the situation down between PA and TT.
Don't be disappointed. I am quite sure Eteri had no plans to hire Lipnitskaya. Nor this has any major consequences on anything at present. Lipnitskaya has been in Pluschenko's camp for a long time, they have an on going contract, he hires her to skate in his show for the last few years. Since Lipnitskaya/Ilinykh Academy ceased to exist it is natural to see Julia joining her partner Elena in the Angels group.

The L/I Academy was not doing so well, from what people say (parents who took their kids to the master classes). It was fun to meed these two outstanding Olympic medalists/champions, and the young ladies were very nice to the kids, helpful as in "hold up your arm", "stretch your leg" type of comments. Yet parents, who had more than just recreational skating in mind for their kids, did not take their kids to the next master classes of this team.

Urmanov and few other skating names have already been called by the media to give opinion, Urmanov commented "she'll be good with the kids".
 
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Scott512

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Don't be disappointed. I am quite sure Eteri had no plans to hire Lipnitskaya. Nor this has any major consequences on anything at present. Lipnitskaya has been in Pluschenko's camp for a long time, they have an on going contract, he hires her to skate in his show for the last few years. Since Lipnitskaya/Ilinykh Academy ceased to exist it is natural to see Julia joining her partner Elena in the Angels group.

The L/I Academy was not doing so well, from what people say (parents who took their kids to the master classes). It was fun to meed these two outstanding Olympic medalists/champions, and the young ladies were very nice to the kids, helpful as in "hold up your arm", "stretch your leg" type of comments. Yet parents, who had more than just recreational skating in mind for their kids, did not take their kids to the next master classes of this team.

Urmanov and few other skating names have already been called by the media to give opinion, Urmanov commented "she'll be good with the kids".
Interesting points. But I would think these two girls especially yulia would know a lot more than hold up your arm or hold your leg this way.
Alexei Urmanov with no a lot better than I would so when he said she'll be good with the kids that's a little deflating but probably realistic. Although I would thank Yuliawould be able to help any skater with spinning and the beelman as well as other things.

Good luck to Yulia.

Eteri probably didn't need Yulia but it would have been nice.
 

Bigbird

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It's funny how many (Russian specialists)felt the need to even comment or troll this news (focus here on Averbuch). In her last year the specialists were glad to see the back of her no doubt embarrassed that her eating challenges were not hushed up. Practically demanding that she retire. It was ugly.

I&L have simply expressed an interest they have a long, long way to go. May they find their way.
 

Tinami Amori

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Interesting points. But I would think these two girls especially yulia would know a lot more than hold up your arm or hold your leg this way.
Alexei Urmanov with no a lot better than I would so when he said she'll be good with the kids that's a little deflating but probably realistic. Although I would thank Yuliawould be able to help any skater with spinning and the beelman as well as other things.
The way their master class is conducted is shown in few short videos (i'll post below). It's a group of 20-30 youngsters, Julia/Elena/and the guy (forgot his name) demonstrate some basic elements, then have kids do it, and then occasionally correct "legs, arms, back". The class is about 1 hr. 30 min. and that's it for that group. It's fun for the kids, interesting to skate with Stars of figure skating, but it is not "day to day training of an athlete".

Lipnitskaya did enroll into Sports College "educational/training department" but for off campus studies/attendance some years back. No info if she graduated or not. In any case she has no experience training a skater on consistent basis with a goal in mind. Giving 1.5 hrs. master classes is her only experience.

Pluschenko's Academy has many recreational skating classes for children of Russian celebrities, pop-stars, wealthy businessmen and even a few oligarchs (that's where Pluschenko makes the most of his Academy's money). It flatters their egos that their kids are trained by Olympic medalists. Pluschenko himself does not hide this fact, and plays up to it. Lipnitskaya will certainly add to the "star image", but she has a long way to go to be an effective coach of skaters to plan to be in "big sport".
 
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Bigbird

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The way their master class is conducted is shown in few short videos (i'll post below). It's a group of 20-30 youngsters, Julia/Elena/and the guy (forgot his name) demonstrate some basic elements, then have kids do it, and then occasionally correct "legs, arms, back". The class is about 1 hr. 30 min. and that's it for that group. It's fun for the kids, interesting to skate with Stars of figure skating, but it is not "day to day training of an athlete".

Lipnitskaya did enroll into Sports College "educational/training department" but for off campus studies/attendance some years back. No info if she graduated or not. In any case she has no experience training a skater on consistent basis with a goal in mind. Giving 1.5 hrs. master classes is her only experience.

Pluschenko's Academy has many recreational skating classes for children of Russian celebrities, pop-stars, wealthy businessmen and even a few oligarchs (that's where Pluschenko makes the most of his Academy's money). It flatters their egos that their kids are trained by Olympic medalists. Pluschenko himself does not hide this fact, and plays up to it. Lipnitskaya will certainly add to the "star image", but she has a long way to go to be an effective coach of skaters to plan to be in "big sport".
Their master classes look quite impressive in comparison to others I've seen. But that's what they are.

They have their diplomas and now it's time to apply, apply and apply. Doesn't everybody have to start somewhere?
 

Tinami Amori

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Their master classes look quite impressive in comparison to others I've seen. But that's what they are.

They have their diplomas and now it's time to apply, apply and apply. Doesn't everybody have to start somewhere?
My replies were in response to a poster who made an assumption that Tutberidze will be sorry that Lipnitskaya would not be working for her. The point is Lipnitskaya at present does not have the experience to work with junior and senior skaters, and for kids' groups TeamTutberidze already hired a group of 3 coaches, one of them is Tsurskaya (who worked as a coach of single skaters at other rinks ever since she retired).
 

AxelAnnie

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The way their master class is conducted is shown in few short videos (i'll post below). It's a group of 20-30 youngsters, Julia/Elena/and the guy (forgot his name) demonstrate some basic elements, then have kids do it, and then occasionally correct "legs, arms, back". The class is about 1 hr. 30 min. and that's it for that group. It's fun for the kids, interesting to skate with Stars of figure skating, but it is not "day to day training of an athlete".

Lipnitskaya did enroll into Sports College "educational/training department" but for off campus studies/attendance some years back. No info if she graduated or not. In any case she has no experience training a skater on consistent basis with a goal in mind. Giving 1.5 hrs. master classes is her only experience.

Pluschenko's Academy has many recreational skating classes for children of Russian celebrities, pop-stars, wealthy businessmen and even a few oligarchs (that's where Pluschenko makes the most of his Academy's money). It flatters their egos that their kids are trained by Olympic medalists. Pluschenko himself does not hide this fact, and plays up to it. Lipnitskaya will certainly add to the "star image", but she has a long way to go to be an effective coach of skaters to plan to be in "big sport".
Doesn't Lipnitskaya have a young child? Certainly a factor to consider in these exceptionally challenging times.
 

Bigbird

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My replies were in response to a poster who made an assumption that Tutberidze will be sorry that Lipnitskaya would not be working for her. The point is Lipnitskaya at present does not have the experience to work with junior and senior skaters, and for kids' groups TeamTutberidze already hired a group of 3 coaches, one of them is Tsurskaya (who worked as a coach of single skaters at other rinks ever since she retired).
Understandable. They will have to work their way up.
 

AxelAnnie

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So does Ilynikh. But I am sure Ilynikh and Lipnitskaya are not the only mums that would return to work months after having a baby. Many young mums can’t afford to stay at home longer.
I was not thinking of caring for the baby. I was concerned about bringing the virus home to the baby.
 

hanca

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I was not thinking of caring for the baby. I was concerned about bringing the ***** home to the baby.
Well, are you as much concerned about all women with very young children who have to work? There doesn’t seem to be any solution though.
 

AxelAnnie

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Well, are you as much concerned about all women with very young children who have to work? There doesn’t seem to be any solution though.
Yep. Equally concerned. And there is always a solution.
 

Bigbird

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Yep. Equally concerned. And there is always a solution.
All women around the world have the same challenges and are coping well or are trying to. You just have to follow the protocols. Yulia was interested in coaching before she had the baby so her desires have not waned. She is not as lucky as some to get 1 yr maternity leave she's probably had 5-6. I cannot understand the comments here. Confusing.
 

AxelAnnie

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All women around the world have the same challenges and are coping well or are trying to. You just have to follow the protocols. Yulia was interested in coaching before she had the baby so her desires have not waned. She is not as lucky as some to get 1 yr maternity leave she's probably had 5-6. I cannot understand the comments here. Confusing.
It is not confusing. It is terrifying on so many levels. There are always choices....there are are always solutions.

Did you.not notice how so many of the coaches at the last Russian comps? ..Plush included...had their masks below their noses? Some were even wearing them as chin masks. And I am not singling out one country. IMO the risk of becoming ill or infecting your child will never be worth it. A sister of Lipnitskaya's stature could profitably coach with Zoom. There are exercise classes strategy lessons...artistry...costume...a million things she can do from home and earn money.
 

hanca

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It is not confusing. It is terrifying on so many levels. There are always choices....there are are always solutions.

Did you.not notice how so many of the coaches at the last Russian comps? ..Plush included...had their masks below their noses? Some were even wearing them as chin masks. And I am not singling out one country. IMO the risk of becoming ill or infecting your child will never be worth it. A sister of Lipnitskaya's stature could profitably coach with Zoom. There are exercise classes strategy lessons...artistry...costume...a million things she can do from home and earn money.
You named Lipnitskaya as a reason for your concern. But you don’t seem to be able to provide any solution. All you keep repeating is that there are always choices and solutions. But you haven’t provided any. All you provided is an example how some other Russian coaches are behaving irresponsibly. So what do you suggest Lipnitskaya and the millions of women with young children all over the world do? Start printing the money? Start stealing? Have just air for their dinner? Go grazing? The winter is coming, so there won’t be much grass around... Be specific, I want to hear your solution for all those women who (despite taking all the precautions) are risking up to certain level.
 
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