Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust

[sonsofanarchy]

A lot of people feel sorry for Marinescu but people forget something important. She is actually younger than Vanessa Atler who was kept out of the 95 worlds, 96 Olympics, and 97 worlds, or atleast the chance to be in them, by the age rule. Which given all her later problems and no 98 worlds was probably her whole window of opportunity. Her age being falsified is the only reason she got into all those events. Then her career fizzled out with injuries and growth, and she was done by the 99 worlds. Had her age not been falsified she probably never competes at a world and Olympics and she has 2 world team golds, an individual beam silver at a worlds, an Olympian and Olympic medal. In the end she came out pretty good. She also probably would not have medaled in any of the AAs she was kept out of either. Atlanta AA was a splatfest so just maybe if she hit every routine absolutely perfect she could have eked in, but that isn't the norm for her to hit every routine either. I did love her gymnastics and she had a refreshing style that contrasted all her teammates though, but just trying to be real.

Amanar was my favorite Romanian of the 90s, even over Raducan whose actual gymnastics I preferred. Like one blogger said she had all the artistry of a pirate, but she was such an incredible kind person and sport, and it came through at every moment. So positive, hard working, just straight forward. And atleast when she was younger she was a daredevil and her tumbling and vaulting form was beautiful, and even her bars form. She really regressed as she got older, the Romanian norm, but did an amazing job as a teammate and team leader. She just had such a positive spirit that always came through, and great raw athletic talent.

 

[FiveRinger]

@sonsofanarchy I feel bad for Marinescu, and many other gymnasts, because they were physically and emotionally abused in the name of sport and competition. Everything that you mentioned stemmed from that. Comparing her situation to Atler's because her country followed the rules of age eligibility doesn't make sense. They both lived their own personal hells and to imply that one is better off because she has medals is missing a bigger, more important point.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

A lot of people feel sorry for Marinescu but people forget something important. She is actually younger than Vanessa Atler....

This comparison is a bit arbitrary. I feel sorry for both of them; they went through a lot, and much of their gymnastics life was probably out of their hands. AM certainly wouldn't have falsified her age herself. Belu got her parents to do that.

 

[cris]

AM certainly wouldn't have falsified her age herself. Belu got her parents to do that.

It's quite unlikely that Octavian Bellu had anything to do with falsifying Marinescu's age. Marinescu came from the Junior National Team that trained in Bucharest, with head coach Eliza Stoica, who was Adrian Stoica's wife. Adrian was at that time the general secretary of the Romanian Gymnastics Federation and his wife was eager to play a much more important role in Romanian gymnastics. The team in Bucharest was perceived as the rival of the Deva team and there were lots of maneuvers behind the scene. By the way, in Alexandra's book (which is, IMHO, pure crap, as it is written by a tabloid journalist), Eliza Stoica, not Bellu, is presented as extremely harsh and abusive.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Yea, i don't think I even meant to write Belu. I was just thinking of Romanian officials in general. It was 7am tbf

Still, my point remains the same.

And thanks for the info @cris

 

[Aceon6]

I feel sorry for both of them; they went through a lot, and much of their gymnastics life was probably out of their hands

Between the Fed manipulations, coach abuse, and the lasting impact of overtraining on young bodies, I’m starting to rethink my interest in the aesthetic sports. Sad that it’s come to this, but I feel more like a voyeur than a sports fan.

 

[her grace]

Rebecca Bross’s vault injury really bothered me. Why do I support this sport, which is so hard on people’s bodies? And then learning about all the abuse these athletes suffered.

I still admire the athletes, but the sport needs a lot of reform.

 

[FiveRinger]

Survivors’ Attorneys Ask that Terin Humphrey’s Abuse Claims Be Rejected

Posted in both threads....didn’t know where to put this.

 

[Aceon6]

See my response in the other thread. Legal maneuvering. Nothing to see here.

 

[Bellanca]

Rebecca Bross’s vault injury really bothered me. Why do I support this sport, which is so hard on people’s bodies? And then learning about all the abuse these athletes suffered.

I still admire the athletes, but the sport needs a lot of reform.

Amen.

 

[ilovepaydays]

And now Alyssa Beckerman has shared her story.........

 

[Bellanca]

And now Alyssa Beckerman has shared her story.........

Every coach feigning surprise and disgust over the coaching methods of Béla and Márta has been observed on several occasions, shamelessly kissing their a$$es, which could only lead one to surmise that these coaches are either crazy AF or they are unbelievably diabolical. Probably both, truth be told—grown men and women, these coaches, acting like petulant babies. Good lord, a bunch of immature, ott, emotional, angry, bitter, vindictive little b%tches. After reading Alyssa's account of things, what else can one conclude? I would suggest to all coaches who still act like they're lording over the playground, grow the hell up, already. It's embarrassing. What is wrong with you?!

 

[VGThuy]

Silly hypo: How many World titles/Olympic titles (team and individual) would Russia have had if they were still able to utilize gymnasts from the former Soviet Republics? The hypo is silly because it's assuming the gymnasts from the former republics would be the same gymnast we had in real life as opposed to different ones as they would be developed differently under a Soviet team...and maybe there would be new ones who would have thrived with that system, but thought it'd be fun to think about. What would the Russian teams have looked like? Imagine Lilia Podkopayeva or Viktoria Karpenko among others as part of the 1996/2000 Russian team...imagine Chuso being the Russian vault specialist.

 

[floskate]

Alyssa Beckerman's letter was one tough read. I actually felt sick in places. About time these frauds are shown up for what they are. Can you imagine the pain Alyssa must have felt all these years seeing VKF paint herself as the fairy godmother of gymnastics coaches? That is gaslighting on a whole other level!

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

And now Alyssa Beckerman has shared her story.........

I don't know anything really about NCAA, apart from Miss Val. And I've always had a fake/phoney vibe from her. Yet she seemed absolutely beloved. Has anyone else spoken out about her?

 

[Aceon6]

I don't know anything really about NCAA, apart from Miss Val. And I've always had a fake/phoney vibe from her. Yet she seemed absolutely beloved. Has anyone else spoken out about her?

I always thought of VKF as, first and foremost, a dance teacher. In my 18 years of dance training, my experience was that students were either favorites or bill payers. If you weren't a favorite, you could not expect much performance time. Bill payers were alternates or assigned to help teach young kids and lower skilled dancers. Bill payers weren't expected to have much of a voice in the studio. Perhaps VKF managed her athletes that way. If you aren't starting or expected to start, please shut up.

 

[danafan]

Valorie Kondos-Field tweeted a series of statements (she didn't actually apologize to Beckerman....)

https://twitter.com/OfficialMissVal/status/1297232812458696704

 

[annie720]

I realize this is one of the lesser evils, but I can't get over VKF ridiculing Alyssa for using the word animosity and calling it an SAT word.

 

[ilovepaydays]

I don't know anything really about NCAA, apart from Miss Val. And I've always had a fake/phoney vibe from her. Yet she seemed absolutely beloved. Has anyone else spoken out about her?

Well, what experience did she actually actually have in gymnastics before coming to UCLA?

Personally, I’m for GymCastic’s reaction to this in (I’m assuming) next week’s episode. They’ve seemed to always to her.

 

[her grace]

I have noticed that Kondos Field typically has a very large team and seems to drop athletes from her program more frequently than other programs. IIRC, Beckerman didn't get to injury-retire either so there went her scholarship.

We also know that Kondos Field isn't completely ethical with her involvement in giving a gymnastics admission to UCLA for a friend's daughter who wasn't a high-level gymnast. Source: LA Times' "Did this student deserve admission to UCLA’s renowned gymnastics team?"

I find it easy to believe that Kondos Field has helped numerous athletes, but that doesn't negate how she treated her non-favorites. People with good reputations often treat some, even the majority of people well. That's how they get away with treating their scapegoats poorly. Because everyone else will discount the scapegoat's stories since they know the person involved and they were treated just fine.

Well, what experience did she actually actually have in gymnastics before coming to UCLA?

Personally, I’m for GymCastic’s reaction to this in (I’m assuming) next week’s episode. They’ve seemed to always to her.

I am very curious about this as well. Jessica's husband co-wrote Kondos Field's book, though, so we'll see if Jessica's principles stay the same when she has a monetary stake in the discussion.

 

[Erin]

I am very curious about this as well. Jessica's husband co-wrote Kondos Field's book, though, so we'll see if Jessica's principles stay the same when she has a monetary stake in the discussion.

I’m predicting something similar to when the Maria Caire incident you linked above came out - Jessica claiming a “conflict of interest”, which is really just code for not wanting to say anything bad about her friend Val. I’ll be happy if I’m wrong though.

 

[VGThuy]

Just read that piece. Good lord. I feel like I’ve been duped. Just reading Beckerman’s account made me sick. This is not a healthy sport culture. Is there a healthy one?

 

[sonsofanarchy]

Valorie Kondos-Field tweeted a series of statements (she didn't actually apologize to Beckerman....)

https://twitter.com/OfficialMissVal/status/1297232812458696704

Well maybe there is very good reason for that. Who knows if Beckerman is even telling the truth. Usually at this point I believe the gymnasts, but in this case if even Mattie Larsson who literally called out everyone full blow said nothing negative about Kondos-Field at all I am skeptical at best.

 

[sonsofanarchy]

Silly hypo: How many World titles/Olympic titles (team and individual) would Russia have had if they were still able to utilize gymnasts from the former Soviet Republics? The hypo is silly because it's assuming the gymnasts from the former republics would be the same gymnast we had in real life as opposed to different ones as they would be developed differently under a Soviet team...and maybe there would be new ones who would have thrived with that system, but thought it'd be fun to think about. What would the Russian teams have looked like? Imagine Lilia Podkopayeva or Viktoria Karpenko among others as part of the 1996/2000 Russian team...imagine Chuso being the Russian vault specialist.

I am pretty sure they win in 96. Just adding in Lilia's scores brings them to a rough tie, but that would help everyone elses scores some with team building and all. I am guessing Lyapina, Kuznestova, Dolgopolova are all replaced and Boginskaya and Piskun probably take the other 2 spots. Those would also increase the team total.

 

[Choupette]

Well maybe there is very good reason for that. Who knows if Beckerman is even telling the truth. Usually at this point I believe the gymnasts, but in this case if even Mattie Larsson who literally called out everyone full blow said nothing negative about Kondos-Field at all I am skeptical at best.

It could be that Larsson was a favorite, and happened not to contradict Kondos-Field?

 

[ilovepaydays]

I am very curious about this as well. Jessica's husband co-wrote Kondos Field's book, though, so we'll see if Jessica's principles stay the same when she has a monetary stake in the discussion.

Geesh. I do remember that and was during the episode that discussed the book.

I’m predicting something similar to when the Maria Caire incident you linked above came out - Jessica claiming a “conflict of interest”, which is really just code for not wanting to say anything bad about her friend Val. I’ll be happy if I’m wrong though.

I may be in the minority here, but I’ve been becoming less of a fan of GymCastic in the past year. Too many reasons to post right now, but I’m that Jessica apparently still thinks it’s fine to squeal like she does into her microphone. But maybe I’m the only one who thinks that it makes horrible audio.

 

[mjb52]

Just read that piece. Good lord. I feel like I’ve been duped. Just reading Beckerman’s account made me sick. This is not a healthy sport culture. Is there a healthy one?

This is something I think about a lot. How do we reconcile our love of these sports (fs & gymnastics) with these revelations about what goes on behind the scenes? Some of it isn't new - the eating disorder issues have been known about it for a long time - but some of it does genuinely surprise me, and I guess I had also thought of some of that as stuff that happened in the bad "old days" and didn't realize it was still so wide-spread. It's hard because I don't think athletes want these sports to go away - so how do you preserve the good while setting up better safeguards against the bad, especially in international sports where countries aren't all in the same place in the evolution of their understanding of these issues.

 

[sonsofanarchy]

It could be that Larsson was a favorite, and happened not to contradict Kondos-Field?

That could be the case of course. However these last couple years have had practically everyone come forward with their stories, and yet she thus far is the only one to say anything about Kondos-Field, including Mattie who has probably been the most outspoken, left her NCAA career early due to depression, and still only said positive things about Kondos-Field. I would have to hear someone else say something negative about Kondos-Field before I think of believing Beckerman's version, or Kondos-Field admit to it herself. Like I said she may have good reason to not feel she should apologize to Beckerman.

 

[VGThuy]

Miss Val didn’t deny Beckerman’s story though.

 

[Choupette]

I don't feel differently now about gymnastics than I used to. I used to roll my eyes at fans who would say about an elite gymnast or another that they didn't work hard enough, and the Karolyis never duped me. I would watch the American broadcasts because they were what was available to me, but I never doubted that the system was unhealthy. You could always tell. I never forgot reading Little Girls in Pretty Boxes either, I guess, and could not understand why there were so many fans who were dismissive about it.

That could be the case of course. However these last couple years have had practically everyone come forward with their stories, and yet she thus far is the only one to say anything about Kondos-Field, including Mattie who has probably been the most outspoken, left her NCAA career early due to depression, and still only said positive things about Kondos-Field. I would have to hear someone else say something negative about Kondos-Field before I think of believing Beckerman's version, or Kondos-Field admit to it herself. Like I said she may have good reason to not feel she should apologize to Beckerman.

I live quite well with doubts in general, so I never feel the need to be absolutely sure of something I haven't seen for myself when it comes to "he says, she says". I assume what is claimed is probably true (the vast majority of the time, it is) but leave it open just in case the other side had anything to say. Manipulators do exist, after all.

I therefore assume these gymnastics accounts are truthful, but strangely, in this particular case, when I read Beckerman's account, somehow I thought to myself that if she had made up anything, there is no way she would have made up such an elaborate scenario. She gives so many details and Kondos-Field's behavior as described is so subtle that it would be hard to make up. The way she explains how she felt deep inside that Kondos-Field just knew exactly what to say to hurt her, that felt very believable to me. That is exactly how manipulators/narcissists make you feel. Beckerman's account of what took place, so far, is the most subtle account of abuse I have read from gymnasts.