U.S. Pairs 2019-20 season - News & Updates, Part X

[casken]

As an old timer I appreciate the Lyons and Wells reference.

 

[toddlj]

"They say that life is tit for tat
And that's the way I live
So, I deserve a lot of tat
For what I've got to give..."

 

[Aerobicidal]

Rest assured,I provide maximum tit and minimal tat.



Call me old-fashioned,but the US pair Champions,who haven't delivered a substantial performance on the international stage in over two years,certainly owe their public some sort of explanation.



Agreed. Why the US Figure Skating Association is pushing Cain+Leduc is beyond any comprehension. It's not like they have the natural charisma of a Shelby Lyons+Bryan Wells,for instance.

-BB

I have no qualms with the substance of your post, Miss B, but I believe I was the one who coined the term "maximum tit" on FSU so I would appreciate if you gave me credit when using it.

I have never heard of Lyons and Wells, so off to youtube (hoping the videos haven't been erased for copyright infringement, which potentially makes this post contradictory).

 

[Catherine M]

Bryan Wells is probably the only 5'3 guy to skate pairs at worlds. Loved him and Shelby as a team and would have had them on the 98 Olympic team over the Blands.

 

[nylynnr]

Bryan Wells is probably the only 5'3 guy to skate pairs at worlds. Loved him and Shelby as a team and would have had them on the 98 Olympic team over the Blands.

The Blands that won a world silver medal a few weeks after the Nagano Games? The team that won two world medals and three U.S. titles prior to 1998? Interesting choice, and certainly, going strictly by nationals' results, it would have happened.

 

[aftershocks]

It's not like Cain/LeDuc have the natural charisma of a Shelby Lyons+Bryan Wells,for instance.

As an old timer I appreciate the Lyons and Wells reference.

Tee hee, but otherwise @casken, per your own earlier admission in this thread in response to a post by @Karen-W, you ain't really a fan of any current U.S. pairs teams. Were you an avid U.S. pairs fan back in the 90s when Lyon & Wells were competing?

So you're a fan of none of the US teams? Same!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdsA_SGQLhk Lyons/Wells 1996 Worlds fp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4oL52hUCAI L/W 1998 U.S. Nats sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STDbEdJGNQU L/W 1998 Worlds fp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNlkN7bhk6k Cain/LeDuc 2017 U.S. Nats sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgTkDuF5Jdk C/L 2018 4CCs sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPy2gCIWC6E C/L 2019 U.S. Nats fp

Different eras, different circumstances, different personalities, different career arcs... Both teams evidence engaging presentation skills, competitive grit, a measure of on-ice charisma, and technical competence. Lyons/Wells were never fortunate enough to become U.S. National champions, while Cain/LeDuc have so far won one national pairs championship, and they are still competing.

It is fun looking back at just how many pairs moves from the 1990s are similar to, or evidence the beginning innovation of some of the evolving moves and creativity we see today.

 

[aftershocks]

Bryan Wells is probably the only 5'3 guy to skate pairs at worlds. Loved him and Shelby as a team and would have had them on the 98 Olympic team over the Blands.

Over Ina/Dungjen too?

Apparently, Jenni/Todd were selected for the 1998 Olympic team via a medical bye since they didn't compete at U.S. Nationals. Ina/Dungjen won the 1998 U.S. national championships and placed 4th in both segments at the '98 Olympics. Todd/Jenni were 6th in the sp, 9th in fp and 8th overall at the 1998 Olympics.

At 1998 Worlds, newly crowned Olympic champions, Kazakova/Dmitriev, did not compete. Nor did Olympic bronze medalists, Wotzel/Steuer. Those absences surely paved the way to the podium for a number of pairs competitors such as Shen/Zhao, Abitbol/Bernadis, Eltsova/Bushkov, et al, including Jenni/Todd and Germany's second team, Schwarz/Muller, who suddenly became Germany's first team at Worlds.

It was only Jenni/Todd and Schwarz/Muller who moved up to the podium at Worlds to join Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze who had taken silver at the Olympics and became 1998 World champions in the absence of their compadres, Kazakova/Dmitriev.

Furthermore, Jenni/Todd were first in the sp at 1998 Worlds, second in the fp and second overall.

Ina/Dungjen did not compete at 1998 Worlds which gave an opportunity to Lyons/Wells, who admirably placed 10th at Worlds. There's no way Lyons/Wells were considered in running for the Worlds podium. And let's face it that there's no way Lyons/Wells would ever have been sent to the 1998 Olympics unless Jenni/Todd did not recover from whatever injury they were rehabbing. Had Lyons/Wells had the opportunity to compete at the 1998 Olympics in lieu of Jenni/Todd, I find it doubtful L/W would have matched or exceeded J&T's 8th place result, since L/W did not have the same competitive credentials as J&T.

Meanwhile, 4th place finishers at the Olympics, Ina/Dungjen, were likely in the process of splitting up immediately after the 1998 Olympics, if they hadn't done so already by 1998 Worlds. I/D and Jenni/Todd had been rivals for many years, with J&T having a slight edge overall. By 1999 U.S. Nationals, Kyoko Ina had paired with John Zimmerman, and the rest is history.

 

[overedge]

A "skate of a lifetime" is called that for a reason. Because it's unusual and it doesn't seem likely to happen again. It may not be a reliable indication of how the skater(s) will perform at a later competition.

 

[aftershocks]

A "skate of a lifetime" is called that for a reason. Because it's unusual and it doesn't seem likely to happen again. It may not be a reliable indication of how the skater(s) will perform at a later competition.

Sure, but anything can and does happen in figure skating. I'm not sure whose 'skate of a lifetime' you are referencing. IMO, Calalang/Johnson's fp at U.S. Nationals was a fine, memorable, satisfying moment, and it was a marvelous performance. I wouldn't exactly describe it as a 'skate of a lifetime.' It's just more aptly the first time C/J skated on competitive ice the same way they train every day. A harbinger of even better things to come, fingers-crossed!

Tanith and Charlie White commentated the U.S. pairs event for NBC Gold. They covered C/J's accomplishment best, IMHO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCp6t5-Cg-g C/J's winning fp at Warsaw Cup, since U.S. Nats fp is still not available on Youtube

Charlie: "They can go zero to 60 in one or two crossovers, so they don't have to waste a lot of time engineering speed... Such command, such explosiveness... I got chills... Dark horse no more..."

Tanith: "All season long ... they have shown improvement in every area of their skating, and they just put it altogether on the national stage. The ideal development for a new pair: First season, show your promise, show your potential, gain some attention; Second season, start to define who you are as a team. Already, I feel like I know what kind of team Brian & Jessica are and what we can expect [from them] in the future. They are right on track..."

Charlie: "Their choreography is simple ... but it played to their strengths because of their speed, because of their beautiful lifts, because of their lines ... lots of height [on the throws]... Their lifts are a stand-out element..."

Tanith: "Jessica is stunning in the positions she can achieve [in the lifts]. And Brian is so strong to allow no second-guessing that the stability will be there to hold her... That's the best they've skated by far... We can't even keep them in the [camera's] frame. We looked at each other and our eyebrows went, 'Wow.'"

Jessica, in a U.S. figure skating fan zone interview, discussing 2020 U.S. Nationals:
"We're a new team... We have to prove ourselves. We have to put in the work... We weren't skating perfect at every competition, but we were training really hard at the rink, day in and day out. It all paid off to have that moment. No one can take that moment away from us... We just want to have more moments like that... to skate the way that we know we can skate..."

With their U.S. Nationals fp win, and their showing at 2020 4CCs, combined with their steady rise over the course of the season, Jessica & Brian have a lot to look forward to, as do true fans of U.S. pairs!

 

[aftershocks]

Apparently, Calalang/Johnson's programs at 2019 U.S. Nationals were taken down from Youtube, and seemingly their 2020 U.S. Nats fp is never going to be uploaded.

I become more dissatisfied and disgusted with NBC Gold's hogging and inadequacy in neglecting to provide the same content we got on IceNetwork (medal ceremonies, backstage interviews, etc), as we were promised we would receive.


Meanwhile, I came across this posted video by Byrnne McIsaac of her fp at 2020 U.S. pairs Challenge, with Mark Sadusky. They are a promising young pair who look good together even at this early learning stage. I think they are both former singles competitors at Nationals who are new to pairs. They have strong singles skills and they appear to be catching on quickly to mastering pairs elements. With the guidance and enthusiasm of their coach Jim Peterson, I hope they go far!

2020 US Pair Final - McIsaac/Sadusky Senior FS

Brynne McIsaac and Mark Sadusky senior freeskate pair debut at the first US Pair Final in Allen, TX

www.youtube.com

M/S's scores at U.S. Challenge were not high enough for the minimums needed for them to compete at U.S. Nationals this season. Nevertheless, congrats to them on their U.S. pairs Challenge debut, and I hope they keep working hard. Never give up! ♥

 

[Spun Silver]

^I like them. I hope she can learn to smile, to create the impression of ease and joy.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4oL52hUCAI L/W 1998 U.S. Nats sp

I certainly hope Brian's crimson trousers have a prominent place in the US Figure Skating Museum.

It is also intriguing to note,22 years ago,Lyons+Wells possessed identical technical content (side-by-side triple loops and salchows) to what Cain+LeDuc occasionally execute today.

-BB

 

[aftershocks]

I certainly hope Brian's crimson trousers have a prominent place in the US Figure Skating Museum.

It is also intriguing to note,22 years ago,Lyons+Wells possessed identical technical content (side-by-side triple loops and salchows) to what Cain+LeDuc occasionally execute today.

Yep, Lyons/Wells' tech content was ahead of its time. That opening pose with Shelby leaning along the ice with her head resting on Brian's knee also seems innovative for that time. And they had some similar difficult lift entries and dismounts. They were very fast too. Shelby reminds me of a young Linda Fratianne.

Their lifts were fab and reminiscent of some lifts we see today, with the major differences being less position changes, length and ice coverage. But still their lifts do have similar positions and difficulty to some we see today. They were certainly ahead of their time. But back then, there was no tech panel examining their jump landings and rotations with a microscope. OTOH, under IJS/CoP, L/W would have at least had a higher tech difficulty advantage.

 

[PairSkater12345]

Rest assured,I provide maximum tit and minimal tat.

Interesting comment lol

Highly unlikely The Knierims are injured (with the exception of their confidence).

 

[aftershocks]

^I like them. I hope she can learn to smile, to create the impression of ease and joy.

I'm sure Byrnne will be able to smile more and bring out more of her personality as she gains experience and mileage as a pairs skater. Right now, she and Mark are concentrating on adapting to a new way of skating, with a partner. Not to mention learning new and difficult pairs elements in order to get them to the point where they can begin to make their execution look easy. That's a tall enough order at the moment.

Byrnne is very pretty and I didn't really notice or pay attention to whether or not she and Mark were smiling. I was just rooting for them to do well. It clearly meant a lot to them to try and get the minimums. But it was not to be this year. I love the enthusiasm Jim Peterson has for his skaters, and I look forward to seeing his work with Byrnne and Mark bear fruit.

In some cases, personality and self-awareness also have to do with smiling or not smiling. For example, Audrey Lu seems super-focused in her facial expressions. She could benefit from getting more into the character of her music and emoting more to the audience and to her partner, Misha. In addition, Daria Pavluchenko has tended to skate with a stony face. Perhaps someone has encouraged Daria to smile more, because toward the end of some of her performances last fall, she began grinning widely. Unfortunately, her grin looked fake and more like a grimace. Daria has a beautiful, natural smile, which we sometimes get to see in the kiss 'n cry. So, going forward, perhaps Daria can bring a more natural smile to her on-ice performance. For young skaters, it is what it is...

 

[aftershocks]

NBC Gold's hogging and inadequacy in neglecting to provide the same content we got on IceNetwork (medal ceremonies, backstage interviews, etc)

And the video highlights that IceNetwork provided!!! I miss those a lot. Having to go back into the archived stream trying to find the best performances is very time-consuming and inconvenient.

 

[insideedgeua]

Call me old-fashioned,but the US pair Champions,who haven't delivered a substantial performance on the international stage in over two years,certainly owe their public some sort of explanation.

They certainly do not owe the public an explanation at all. They would owe US Figure Skating an explanation, except they already know the explanation. Mitch Moyer was right there in Seoul and knows exactly why Alexa and Chris did not compete in the free.

 

[PairSkater12345]

They certainly do not owe the public an explanation at all. They would owe US Figure Skating an explanation, except they already know the explanation. Mitch Moyer was right there in Seoul and knows exactly why Alexa and Chris did not compete in the free.

Decided not to go there. Truth can be harmful.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Side by side Realness from CG / L

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[olympic]

The mean international average score of the top Pairs this season thru 4CCs. Might be a better indicator of things to come at Worlds for team USA and something to ponder:

1. Sui / Han - 221.13
2. Boikova / Kozlovski - 220.65
3. Mishina / Galiamov - 206.06 (Top prospect that didn't make the RUS Worlds team)
4. Tarasova / Morozov - 205.60
5. Moore-Towers / Marinaro - 205.42
6. Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin - 201.20
7. Peng / Jin - 200.49
8. Cain / LeDuc - 194.58
9. Scimeca-Knierim / Knierim - 191.77
10. Denney / Frazier - 191.27
11. Panfilova / Rylanov - 188.29
12. Ilyushchechkina / Bilodeau - 187.02 (Top prospect that didn't make the CAN Worlds team)
13. Calalang / Johnson - 183.23 (despite 4CCs, did not make US team)
14. Della Monica / Guarise - 182.92 (injured earlier in the season, but scored 194 at '20 Euros and PB is 205 at '19 Euros; moving up quite quickly)
15. Kayne / O'Shea - 182.41
16. Efimova / Korovin - 181.32
17. Ryom / Kim - 181.28 (will DPRK even send a team to NA for Worlds???)
18. Hase / Seegert - 180.61

Muddle of lower-ranked RUS teams

24. Tang / Yang - 175.29 (WD from 4CCs; injured??)
25. Ziegler / Kiefer - 174.32
26. Miura / Kihara - 173.72

30. Trent / Michaud - 165.73

James / Cipres not competing
-------

US would finish 7th and 8th at Worlds, but both might get knocked down by DM/G if that team continues to improve. I think par for the course, the Americans will hold off the Germans and Austrians (no clue about whether the North Koreans are attending!) and both stay in the top 10 barring disasters. I don't think 2 spots are in jeopardy at all because of the gap between the US pairs and teams further down the rankings (Which is why I think 4CCs could have been used as a skate off and C/J should have been at least considered, but let me get off that dead horse).

And the team(s) that CG/L and SK/K theoretically could catch (and achieve 3 spots for the US) like P/J are improving in the 2nd half of the season. MT/M are uneven lately, but then they probably have a mistake buffer over either US pair. The no. 3 Russian pair could also be caught by either team. P/K have no serious issues but are new and inexperienced.

Interestingly, judging by the scores, superhuman efforts by both CG/L and SK/K could be a threat to a medal, but they will have to be clean, AND what are the odds??

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe they both will skate well enough and the competition will happen in a way for US Pairs to qualify three teams at this upcoming Worlds.

 

[Aceon6]

Maybe they both will skate well enough and the competition will happen in a way for US Pairs to qualify three teams at this upcoming Worlds.

Unfortunately, that might mean meltdowns for other teams. I’m hoping for everyone to go clean even if it lowers the chances for the magic number.

 

[Spiralgraph]

If by some stroke of magic and extremely good luck SK/K and C-G/L manage to secure three spots at this year's worlds, I can just imagine the arguments and sometimes off the wall comments about which USA teams should be named for worlds 2021: Should the US have a skate off at 4CC 2021 to decide? uh oh my favorite at the moment team might be left out! Rigged! No US Skating is unfair and on and on and on...

nope. I'm fairly safe in assuming that US will be fortunate enough to keep our two spots. I'm not going to be greedy. Besides I'm sick of this dead horse discussion.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Tarah and Danny announced their 2020-2021 long program music already - selections from Carmen.

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[Wyliefan]

The parade of warhorses marches on!

 

[HeatherC]

The parade of warhorses marches on!

Hopefully this choice goes more along the lines of Swan Lake and not the way of Les Miz, LOL

 

[happycamper2554]

The parade of warhorses marches on!

They do it well, keep marching on Tarah and Danny.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Tarah and Danny announced their 2020-2021 long program music already - selections from Carmen.

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They sure love a war horse

I want take me to church realness

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hopefully this choice goes more along the lines of Swan Lake and not the way of Les Miz, LOL

Where have you been Hon? Miss you

When I heard they were announcing their music now ..... this early... I thought it was gonna be something major. Lol. No need for a nine month early release of a war horse. And, the most criminal of war horses. If ice-skating never saw another Carmen again it would be just fine and dandy.

Hope you’ve been doing well!!!

 

[Rukia]

Hopefully this choice goes more along the lines of Swan Lake and not the way of Les Miz, LOL

Even if it's a war horse, I think they could do really well with Carmen. Tarah's got the fire.