Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

[canbelto]

Harry has made a public statement:

Prince Harry expresses 'great sadness' following news he and Meghan are no longer working members of royal family | CNN

Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex, expressed "great sadness" Sunday evening in his first public statement since Buckingham Palace announced he and his wife, Meghan, would give up their royal titles and would not represent the Queen as working members of the royal family. Earlier in this month...

www.cnn.com

 

[skategal]

I watched a documentary earlier this year about two older British men (twin brothers) who recounted how their mother prostituted them out as children to members of the aristocracy. This happened in the 80s, I think.

She stopped when they got big enough to fight back against the men they were sold to (around age 14).

So sad.

Just an illustration that there are some sick, deranged folk out there who feel entitled to abuse children.

 

[starrynight]

Harry has made a public statement:

Prince Harry expresses 'great sadness' following news he and Meghan are no longer working members of royal family | CNN

Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex, expressed "great sadness" Sunday evening in his first public statement since Buckingham Palace announced he and his wife, Meghan, would give up their royal titles and would not represent the Queen as working members of the royal family. Earlier in this month...

www.cnn.com

That’s a really well written statement.

I wish something like that had been put on their website when they launched the first news of the split.

 

[canbelto]

Also for years. royal reporters have reported about how the Queen has "looked the other way" at Philip's indiscretions as if this were a particularly noble thing. Of course Philip's flings are not in the same bucket as Andrew's underage girls/rape/pedo charges, but I'm thinking the Queen might have genuinely believed that Andrew was just "randy Andy" and that it didn't go beyond the typical playboy aristocrat. Which doesn't excuse what happened at all but might explain how this situation got so out of control.

ETA: Out of grisly curiosity I've been lurking at some royalist message boards and there is definitely a contingency of self-identified "aristocrats" who think the Andrew thing is a "tempest in a teapot" and whose biggest defenses of him are "she was 17" and "she's American." Like that matters, but okay.

 

[mag]

Harry has made a public statement:

Prince Harry expresses 'great sadness' following news he and Meghan are no longer working members of royal family | CNN

Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex, expressed "great sadness" Sunday evening in his first public statement since Buckingham Palace announced he and his wife, Meghan, would give up their royal titles and would not represent the Queen as working members of the royal family. Earlier in this month...

www.cnn.com

I love the part about Archie seeing snow for the first time. I really hope they will be happy and content. This is a beautiful part of the world and we really do tend to live and let live here. They should be able to have privacy they want.

 

[kittyjake5]

That’s a really well written statement.

I wish something like that had been put on their website when they launched the first news of the split.

I know. That was a heartfelt and upbeat speech, choked me up a little.

 

[Judy]

I love the part about Archie seeing snow for the first time. I really hope they will be happy and content. This is a beautiful part of the world and we really do tend to live and let live here. They should be able to have privacy they want.

I think they must be excited and yes escaping the British tabloids.

 

[overedge]

@canbelto When the Duke of Westminster died in 2016 I saw a number of stories about how he was well known as a client of prostitutes and on some days would have a lineup of them at his house, outside his bedroom door waiting their turn.

I'm sure there are non-titled people with money who can and do the same thing, but the British aristocracy definitely seems to have more of a "turn a blind eye" attitude to such things. Especially wives/girlfriends and the staff.

 

[overedge]

I think they must be excited and yes escaping the British tabloids.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. The tabloids can be relentless in finding people and following them around.

 

[starrynight]

I know. That was a heartfelt and upbeat speech, choked me up a little.

I think the statement makes it known that Harry doesn’t want to wash his hands clean of the people.

Because so much of the coverage online afterwards was terrible stuff making out like the whole country and commonwealth and everyone in it was toxic and this was Harry punishing the people from up on his pedestal.

And this statement has tempered that a lot.

It would have been so much better if something like this statement had been released from the very beginning rather than as a bandaid at the end.

 

[Husky]

Also for years. royal reporters have reported about how the Queen has "looked the other way" at Philip's indiscretions as if this were a particularly noble thing. Of course Philip's flings...

Who knows, maybe she also had her affairs? In her prime she was quite attractive. I'm sure there were plenty of opportunities. Think of Churchill's mother, a stunning beauty, she had several affairs during her marriage. Camilla cheated on her husband. So did Diana, taking revenge for Camilla or looking for some comfort, it doesn't matter. My impression is that for them it's kind of a social game to have affairs, probably because they are so bored and rich. As long as they are among themselves, adults with equal rights, it's their business.

 

[Judy]

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. The tabloids can be relentless in finding people and following them around.

They don’t live outside their doors anymore.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I wonder if it's just now sinking in what they have done? I think he and Meghan genuinely believed they'd be able to have it both ways.

 

[Andora]

Queen and Andrew attend church. Absolutely gorgeous coat and hat!

Queen attends church service in first appearance since Prince Harry, Meghan retire as working royals

Queen Elizabeth II attended a church service on Sunday morning at St. Mary the Virgin Church near Sandringham in her first public appearance since it was ann...

youtu.be

Jesus Christ, take the wheel. Are you kidding me? All your God-damned hand-wringing over Meghan and Harry, and this gets a significant pass, even considering your b.s. "interpretation."

Look, aftershocks is all kind of ridiculous defending the Sussexes, but you and the fervently pro-Same Ol' Same Ol' types are no better. Good Lord.

SHE COULD HAVE LEFT HIM AT HOME! And not been photographed so publicly!

Queen Elizabeth’s willingness to be photographed with Prince Andrew just shows how twisted and sick the priorities of the Royal family are. England needed to be done with them a long time ago. Being fine with having a pedophile as a son tells you everything you need to know about Queen Elizabeth.

Thank you! Good Lord. After everything this weekend alone, seeing these pictures of her and Andrew did it for me. The Crown is a stupid institution in this day and age, and they've leaned right in to that tone-deaf

 

[overedge]

They don’t live outside their doors anymore.

Their correspondents can and will. I would guess that the tabloids will be even more interested in H&M now that they are the outcasts and rebels of the BRF.

 

[canbelto]

@Husky yeah I was looking at pictures of the Queen when she was young and all the "royal protocol" rules that supposedly existed (you must wear sleeves, can't wear open-toed shoes, blah blah blah) definitely weren't followed by the Queen when she was young. She dressed very fancy and cosmopolitan. Lots of sleeveless dresses, strappy open-toed shoes, jewels, like a movie star at a premiere. Honestly, way more trendy than either Meghan or Kate.

I think the Queen has served her country honorably in her long reign, but this is where longevity is not necessarily a good thing. Because the Queen is now 93 and a rather grand old lady, people associate the monarchy as a musty, old-fashioned institution. They constantly look for that "breath of fresh air" (in other words, young hot women marrying into the BRF) and then are disappointed when those "breaths of fresh air" don't freshen the air in exactly the manner they wanted.

 

[overedge]

. My impression is that for them it's kind of a social game to have affairs, probably because they are so bored and rich. As long as they are among themselves, adults with equal rights, it's their business.

Camilla's husband cheated on her long before she cheated on him.

In a lot of cases, though, these aren't adults with equal rights. Like if the husband is the one with the title and the money. If he's sleeping around, the wife can say something about it and maybe lose her home, her friends, her marriage, and maybe even access to her kids. Someone with money can drag out a divorce proceeding and get their way a lot more easily than someone without their own money.

And while it may be their business, it also doesn't set a very good example for younger generations about respect, fidelity, and honesty. The impact of that kind of behaviour can go well beyond the impact on the participants themselves.

 

[Judy]

Well the HRH titles have been .. or will be .. taken away but what else? They are still Duke and Duchess ..

 

[aftershocks]

You know, aftershocks, it is possible to appreciate Harry and Meghan and write positive things about them without constantly dragging William and Kate for supposedly being spoiled, uninspired, boring to all and incapable of thinking unless the Sussexes do it for them. Do try it some time.

Thanks for your response Zemgirl. However, maybe you should work on reading comprehension, as I never made any claim about Kate being spoiled. I have found William and Kate to be a bit boring and somewhat uninspiring, but in truth I have also thought very highly of them as well in following them from afar, mostly in the lead-up to their wedding and a bit of the aftermath. I don't know a great deal about them of course, only what I see, read, hear from them, and learn about them. They have seemed to be happy together and they appear to be fulfilled as parents with their beautiful children. I think it is sad they felt the need or felt pressured into pushing Charlotte and George so soon into the Sandringham Church walk because of the media wanting the clicks and the photos (and to detract from Andrew's issues, and to make up for the fact that Meghan & Harry had chosen to spend the holidays far from Britain).

I actually thought that Kate & William would be so happy for Harry that he was in love and had found his soul mate. I bought into the so-called Fab Four brand, which sadly turned out not to be a reality. Life is challenging for us all, and isn't easy for anyone, so it is often best to proceed with compassion and reflection when trying to assess news stories about other people. When I first heard claims about William having something to do with the KP leaks, I didn't believe it. As time passed, and the attacks in the media against Meghan got worse and no one in the royal family ever spoke out, I made excuses at first, but it soon became obvious and it has since been confirmed that the brothers are at odds with each other. There was never a rift between Meghan and Kate, but they are obviously not very close, and the circumstances it seems makes it difficult for them to develop a friendship.

Perhaps time and distance will eventually lead to healing between the brothers. It is sad if Archie and a possible sibling and the Cambridge children won't grow up knowing each other well. FYI: I personally do not adhere to a 'team this or team that' mentality. I simply observe the people and the circumstances, and I do research, I read, and I listen carefully. Then I form my own opinions. When I say that the Cambridges and now even Prince Charles are in some respects emulating M&H's approach and some of their ideas, that's not a negative. It's a good thing, since M&H's approach to their work has been successful. The only negative thing is the fact that none of Harry's family stood up against the vicious attacks in the media against his wife, particularly when she was pregnant. And btw, emulating successful ways of doing things does not mean you don't have any ideas of your own.

I always do my homework before forming my opinions. Everyone can believe what they wish. Nothing we think, say or believe will change anything that happens in the British royal family. One thing I would suggest you do is stop exaggerating, misrepresenting and twisting what I have said. If you don't like or don't agree with my views, that's fine. But stop with your unnecessary and inaccurate re-framing of my views.


Meanwhile, Harry made a statement that was posted on the Sussex Instagram, which has probably already been posted in this thread: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7hGUztJA0F/

A fairly general and discreet statement from Harry, but it makes clear that he made this decision to step back for his wife and son. He also makes clear that he has not left the royal family, and that he will continue to work with his patronages and with Sentebale and Invictus. And as well, he preferred to continue with his military appointments but that wasn't possible.

 

[caseyedwards]

Now Harry and meg look like total grifters of no merit or value

megan is totally a crybaby of no merit or value. Boo hoo for thinking she can jetset around the world on private jets and not face freespender criticism

 

[overedge]

@aftershocks if you don't know a great deal about them, then why do you write screenfuls of prose to prove that your opinion/interpretation of events is the right one?

And don't bother telling me to improve my reading comprehension. @Zemgirl and the other posters here are perfectly capable of understanding your passive-aggressive pseudo-intellectual shite.

 

[aftershocks]

@aftershocks if you don't know a great deal about them, then why do you write screenfuls of prose to prove that your opinion/interpretation of events is the right one?

And don't bother telling me to improve my reading comprehension. @Zemgirl and the other posters here are perfectly capable of understanding your passive-aggressive pseudo-intellectual shite.

I don't care what you think about me overedge. I don't know you, and you don't know me. I do observe your busybody aggression and labeling, which you apparently resort to because you don't agree with my views. This is an emotional topic, and a lot of ignorant, 'passive-aggressive shite' has been posted in these royalty threads against Meghan by a handful of posters here. I will push back against that with my personal views of what I have read and observed, as I choose. Other posters are surely capable of speaking for themselves as they choose, without your unnecessary interference.

Look, aftershocks is all kind of ridiculous defending the Sussexes

FYI: Meghan and Harry require no 'defending' by me. Again, I will share my opinions and observations as I choose, and push back against what I perceive as instances of ignorance and worse in this thread, as I choose.

You don't have to agree with my views, Andora, but stop equating and contrasting what I think with the dissimilar views of others in this thread whom you don't happen to agree with.

 

[canbelto]

Well after watching Harry's speech in full it kind of sounds like he hopes that divorcing himself from his "job" might make him closer to his family. Which actually makes sense. It is very hard for even the closest of relatives to combine family with business.

 

[aftershocks]

Well the HRH titles have been .. or will be .. taken away but what else? They are still Duke and Duchess ..

From what I have learned, the HRH titles have not been 'taken away,' particularly as Harry was born royal. It is simply that M&H will no longer officially use the 'HRH' or 'TRH' designation, since they have stepped back from senior royal duties.

 

[Peaches LaTour]

CNN's take:

Harry and Meghan are giving up royal titles and state funding. Here's what that means

Prince Harry and Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, will give up their royal titles and eschew some state funding in a deal brokered to end a crisis that broke out after the couple announced they would step back from the royal family.

www.cnn.com

Of interest: the arrangement will be re-evaluated in a year.

So, if they realize they made a mistake with all this, everything can be reinstated?

 

[SkateSand]

So, if they realize they made a mistake with all this, everything can be reinstated?

I'm guessing the Queen wants to give them a chance to see for themselves that the grass on the other side of the fence isn't really greener and hopes they'll come back into the fold after their taste of freedom. I don't think that's going to happen, though.

 

[aftershocks]

I think he and Meghan genuinely believed they'd be able to have it both ways.

A fair enough reading, perhaps. However, I believe per Harry's own words that he did not make this decision 'lightly.' There were many discussions between him, and as confirmed by the Queen, between Harry and major members of the royal family. Harry was told to put in writing a plan of what they wanted and he did, and then it was leaked, which led to his decision to make a public announcement that fortunately has resulted in a more swift resolution.

My view based on everything I've read and seen from direct sources, is that the Sussexes decided to express their preferences in the full knowledge they might not have their wishes approved to continue royal duties on a minor scale. At least they will be continuing with their current patronages and personal projects. Harry acknowledges this was not an easy decision for him, but he feels it was the right decision for his family. For all we know (and we don't know as much as Harry and Meghan know), M&H were mainly concerned with obtaining more personal freedom over their lives. In that respect, I would not interpret their initial preferences as trying to 'have it both ways.' They are still young and growing and learning from their experiences, but I also think they knew enough to realize everything they preferred, wouldn't necessarily work out. It may simply have been a strategy on their part to show their willingness to continue in a minor royal role. The main thing they seem to have wanted is their freedom, which they now have. So we'll see how things further develop.

The way the media has been trying to rile up the public about security costs is OTT, since nothing will ever be revealed in explicit detail about how their security will be handled and paid for. It is a definite that security protection for the Sussexes is very important.

ETA:
Another CNN article:

Coming or going, Meghan gets the blame -- and it's because of her race

Suddenly, the message for the Duchess of Sussex has changed from "Why are you here?" to "Where do you think you're going?" And again, some observers think racism is partly to blame.

www.cnn.com

 

[aftershocks]

I wish something like that had been put on their website when they launched the first news of the split.

That would have been difficult for them to do since at that point, there was no final resolution of their desired plans. Harry's statement is now possible because their wishes have been ironed out with the realities of what is deemed practical.

OTOH, it's clearly outlined on their website that they had initially envisioned crafting a more progressive royal role that might have allowed them to continue serving the Queen. Obviously, too many conflicts would have resulted with what they had envisioned, and it has been seen as wanting to 'have their cake and eat it too.' I think that view is somewhat overly negative and doesn't take into account how much the Sussexes have accomplished on behalf of the crown in the short time since their engagement and marriage. Nor does that view align with the fact that the Sussexes wished to expand their duties as royals, but felt constricted in being able to do so, as expressed on their website.

There are a number of poignant and very revealing sentiments in Harry's statement:

"I want you to hear the truth from me, as much as I can share... I'm the same person that many of you have watched grow up over the past 35 years, but now with a clearer perspective. The UK is my home and a place that I love. That will never change... I have grown up feeling supported by so many of you. And I watched as you welcomed Meghan with open arms, as you saw me find the love and happiness that I'd hoped for all my life. 'Finally, the second son of Diana got hitched, hooray...' You've come to know me well enough to trust that the woman I chose as my wife upholds the same values as I do, and she does. And she's the same woman I fell in love with...

Once Meghan and I were married, we were excited, we were hopeful and we were here to serve. For those reasons, it brings me great sadness that it has come to this... The decision I have made for my wife and I to step back is not one I made lightly... I know I haven't always gotten it right, but as far as this goes there really was no other option...

I hope that helps you understand what it had come to, that I would step my family back from all I have ever known, to take a step forward into what I hope can be a more peaceful life...

You've looked out for me so long, but the media is a powerful force. My hope is one day that our collective support for each other can be more powerful because this is so much bigger than just us... We will continue to lead a life of service, and in that respect, nothing will change... We are taking a leap of faith, so thank you for giving me the courage to take this next step..."


That is an eloquent statement. The saddest thing I feel is the fact that the monarchy has lost the energy, excitement, commitment and fruitful connections M&H were bringing to the Commonwealth (symbolized by the distinctive flowers embroidered into Meghan's lovely wedding veil). Hopefully, M&H will still find a way to travel privately to some of the Commonwealth countries to champion and to assist in furthering worthy projects on a variety of fronts.

 

[caseyedwards]

Their main goal previously was to fly in private jets and then give speeches on protecting the environment and being carbon neutral but also how their life is so so hard!! That didn’t work out and it will never work. They will always be criticized for being huge hypocrites because they are.

 

[AxelAnnie]

So, if they realize they made a mistake with all this, everything can be reinstated?

Or...more can be taken away.