Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

[starrynight]

Wasn't there a story I read about a former Canadian prime minister being assaulted when he was out one night -- and that this happened because former prime ministers aren't provided with security detail?

From memory, I think I read that the pension packets of Canadian prime ministers are quite modest in comparison to other nations.

I just thought this was an interesting comparison with the Canadian government potentially paying for royal security on a long term basis.

 

[Desperado]

I think H&M electing to live 6 months per year in Canada will bring out a lot of pro vs anti monarchist discussions in Canada.

My opinion is that as long as Canada is part of the British monarchy system, we will have to pay at a minimum, for their security. We could negotiate some form of compensation with the Queen, but we’ll never know the specifics.

Canadian taxpayers can complain, but can you imagine if anything happened to H&M or Archie in Canada because of absent or lax security?

 

[Peaches LaTour]

#Megxit wuzrobbed!

I like "a harried exit" which I just thought up but Megxit is my second favorite.

 

[Judy]

I don't know why anyone is paying for their security other than Meghan and Harry themselves. All reports seem to put them worth millions on their own, and with big plans to earn their own money, so why would anyone else pay for it unless they are on official business on behalf of that government or country?

Does the Canadian or BC government pay for security for any other private citizens? Because it's quite clear that Harry and Meghan have no official status in Canada, so that puts them in the same boat as you and me. Sure they are famous and therefore higher risk, but I can't imagine that other celebrities expect the Canadian government to foot the bill for their security.

I don’t disagree. All Trudeau has said is that they will be protected but not who pays. I don’t think it should be Canada as it’s been thrown on us suddenly. The Queen and the Royal family is rich enough. It’s her family. Personally, it still amazes me that the family is supported by taxpayers in the U.K.

 

[Jenny]

I think H&M electing to live 6 months per year in Canada will bring out a lot of pro vs anti monarchist discussions in Canada.

My opinion is that as long as Canada is part of the British monarchy system, we will have to pay at a minimum, for their security. We could negotiate some form of compensation with the Queen, but we’ll never know the specifics.

Canadian taxpayers can complain, but can you imagine if anything happened to H&M or Archie in Canada because of absent or lax security?

They have no official status in Canada though - only the Queen does (this differs from some other Commonwealth countries). Unless they are on official business (ie a state visit) then they are private citizens. Less than that even - they are residents, not citizens of Canada.

I think there will be a huge backlash if it turns out that Canadian taxpayers have to foot the bill for any of this, particularly since they have plenty of money to pay for it themselves.

 

[starrynight]

There will also need to be the purchase and set up of a Canadian residence too. The UK royal residences have been there for hundreds of years and are designed to handle security concerns. (This is why prime ministers live in official residences). So a residence will need to be purchased and fitted out with proper security systems too.

 

[overedge]

Does the Canadian or BC government pay for security for any other private citizens? Because it's quite clear that Harry and Meghan have no official status in Canada, so that puts them in the same boat as you and me. Sure they are famous and therefore higher risk, but I can't imagine that other celebrities expect the Canadian government to foot the bill for their security.

I could be wrong, but I think the only private citizens that get paid-for private security are residents/citizens involved in certain court proceedings. Like the Huawei executive living in Vancouver who the US is trying to deport, who is under house arrest. She's under 24-hour surveillance and IIRC at least some of that is private security. Same thing with gang members who are out on bail and who might be (or who are) safety threats to the community.

 

[skategal]

In the article I posted earlier there was some catch 22 about royalty not being permitted to use their own private security when in another commonwealth country but perhaps that could be negotiated if said persons are residing here for 6 months.

Plus it will need to be discussed if there are some reasons why it would be beneficial to Canada to provide the security rather than private. (I have no idea if there are reasons or not, just putting it out there. Lol!)

 

[overedge]

There will also need to be the purchase and set up of a Canadian residence too. The UK royal residences have been there for hundreds of years and are designed to handle security concerns. (This is why prime ministers live in official residences). So a residence will need to be purchased and fitted out with proper security systems too.

Harry and Meghan were staying in David Foster's friend's mansion while they were in Saanich/Victoria. I assume that was surveyed beforehand to make sure it had adequate security, or that it could be made secure. I don't think this is necessarily an issue except for the cost, or who is going to pay it.

 

[starrynight]

Harry and Meghan were staying in David Foster's friend's mansion while they were in Saanich/Victoria. I assume that was surveyed beforehand to make sure it had adequate security, or that it could be made secure. I don't think this is necessarily an issue except for the cost, or who is going to pay it.

They can't couch surf forever though. They'll have to either rent or buy something at some point.

 

[Judy]

Harry and Meghan were staying in David Foster's friend's mansion while they were in Saanich/Victoria. I assume that was surveyed beforehand to make sure it had adequate security, or that it could be made secure. I don't think this is necessarily an issue except for the cost, or who is going to pay it.

I’ve been exposed to the security before coming in when the our previous prime minister’s wife was attending an event that evening at the school. They were pretty quick. I have no idea about M&H though.

 

[Jenny]

In the article I posted earlier there was some catch 22 about royalty not being permitted to use their own private security when in another commonwealth country but perhaps that could be negotiated if said persons are residing here for 6 months.

Perhaps because the security detail for royalty carries sidearms, which AFAIK are not permitted for non-government/police security in Canada? Therefore they must use RCMP or other Canadian guards who are permitted as such?

But again, they won't be on official business and have no official status in Canada - they technically can't even earn money from Canadian sources without a visa of some kind (Meghan must've had one through her previous employment when she lived in Canada, but that would have expired by now surely).

And once again, while they may be high profile and higher risk, there are plenty of famous or high risk people in Canada and they pay for their own security if they feel they need it.

And Meghan and Harry can afford to pay for themselves.

 

[skategal]

Perhaps because the security detail for royalty carries sidearms, which AFAIK are not permitted for non-government/police security in Canada? Therefore they must use RCMP or other Canadian guards who are permitted as such?

But again, they won't be on official business and have no official status in Canada - they technically can't even earn money from Canadian sources without a visa of some kind (Meghan must've had one through her previous employment when she lived in Canada, but that would have expired by now surely).

And once again, while they may be high profile and higher risk, there are plenty of famous or high risk people in Canada and they pay for their own security if they feel they need it.

And Meghan and Harry can afford to pay for themselves.

Yes I think it was because of the arms. So hopefully that can be negotiated.

I have a sneaky feeling that H&M will have no problem getting a work visa if needed.

 

[Judy]

Perhaps because the security detail for royalty carries sidearms, which AFAIK are not permitted for non-government/police security in Canada? Therefore they must use RCMP or other Canadian guards who are permitted as such?

But again, they won't be on official business and have no official status in Canada - they technically can't even earn money from Canadian sources without a visa of some kind (Meghan must've had one through her previous employment when she lived in Canada, but that would have expired by now surely).

And once again, while they may be high profile and higher risk, there are plenty of famous or high risk people in Canada and they pay for their own security if they feel they need it.

And Meghan and Harry can afford to pay for themselves.

It is def RCMP.

 

[overedge]

I’ve been exposed to the security before coming in when the our previous prime minister’s wife was attending an event that evening at the school. They were pretty quick. I have no idea about M&H though.

For an extended stay, they usually do an extensive in-person advance review of the area to identify any potential threats (e.g. places where a kidnapper or ambusher could hide) and also look at what kind of security the place already has and whether that needs to be upgraded. They also look at things like the nearest hospital and how to get there quickly and safely, the nearest police station, quickest access in/out of the property, that sort of thing. Sometimes they also run checks on people living in/near the area to see if there's anyone who might be a potential threat, and decide whether those people might need monitoring too.

 

[overedge]

They can't couch surf forever though. They'll have to either rent or buy something at some point.

Oh, I know. The point I was trying to make is that it's not impossible for them to live in a private residence long-term.

 

[Jenny]

I have a sneaky feeling that H&M will have no problem getting a work visa if needed.

Which could be another issue, if they jump the queue. A Canadian friend of mine married a well-educated British citizen and while he was permitted to live in Canada, he could not work for the first 18 months.

Unless of course Harry and Meghan claim refuge status

 

[canbelto]

I read the Queen's statement differently than most. I felt like she was conveying through the use of "Harry and Meghan" that this is a family affair. Which it is. And that like most family affairs it's complex and she's not acting like Her Majesty the Queen, but as a grandmother.

 

[skategal]

Which could be another issue, if they jump the queue. A Canadian friend of mine married a well-educated British citizen and while he was permitted to live in Canada, he could not work for the first 18 months.

Unless of course Harry and Meghan claim refuge status

Celebrities and athletes jump the queue all the time in Canada. It hasn’t been an issue yet.

Plus the have more than enough $$$ that they could wait it out for 18 months if need be.

 

[once_upon]

I know they have millions, but security is expensive I imagine millions wont last very long with all the expenses, housing, security, travel, general living unless they do have actual paying gigs.
JMO

 

[starrynight]

When one of the former Australian prime ministers elected to live in his private residence rather than the official residence, it entailed a heap of additional measures.

I had a friend who lived nearby to him and apparently (in addition to everything else) they had to security check nearby houses as well. Presumably to ensure that a bunch of terrorists hadn’t rented right next door to orchestrate an attack.

Whereas by comparison, Buckingham Palace has an enormous wall around its gardens that is topped with spikes.

 

[mag]

I think security is going to a real issue. Private security cannot carry firearms. I get that they are unhappy where they are, but this isn’t about them. It is about every other person who decides they are special and should be able to private security with guns. That makes us all a lot less safe. Canada, and especially the west coast is a very welcoming place. They will be left alone and allowed to live their lives. Residents will feel protective of H&M and that is probably the best security you can buy. H&M have not thus far shown a stellar ability to read the room. I really hope they have people working for them that understand the culture here and that they listen too.

As for security being expensive, yes it is. But again they are two middle aged adults making their own choices. It is not as though they don’t have other options. I really hope they can come here and be happy, but they are going to need to do it on their own dime and without firearms.

For a little perspective, I pay more in property tax alone (not including charges for water, garbage etc) than the average American pays in federal income tax. That tax is not deductible from my provincial or federal income tax. It is completely separate. Canadians pay a lot of tax, but we get a lot in return. Paying security for multimillionaires is not something I would argue most Canadians are will to do.

 

[PRlady]

Protecting Mar-a-Lago is costing us millions. I’ve been thru Secret Service sweeps for certain events (omg, opening the Holocaust Museum on an outside stage with Prez Clinton speaking was a nightmare) and they are costly and intrusive. Canada is probably lower-key about security but given the online hatred for Megan, they can’t be too careful. Someone will pay.

ETA: the only thing uglier than the original teeet is the comments: https://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/1216779905326694400?s=21

 

[starrynight]

Security and other costs are paid for Prime Ministers and royals because they require this to facilitate their work for the country.

But also in some countries, security is part of the pension package of former prime ministers and presidents because it is necessary due to the earlier work they did.

I just don’t think we’ve got as far as determining a pension package for retired royals yet.

 

[mjb52]

PLEASE stop calling Meghan and Harry middle-aged I beg you

 

[AxelAnnie]

I think H&M electing to live 6 months per year in Canada will bring out a lot of pro vs anti monarchist discussions in Canada.

My opinion is that as long as Canada is part of the British monarchy system, we will have to pay at a minimum, for their security. We could negotiate some form of compensation with the Queen, but we’ll never know the specifics.

Canadian taxpayers can complain, but can you imagine if anything happened to H&M or Archie in Canada because of absent or lax security?

M/H are setting themselves up to make a bazillion dollars. Why don't they pay for their own security staff?

 

[mag]

PLEASE stop calling Meghan and Harry middle-aged I beg you

Why? They are. I guess he is not quite but the average life expectancy for American women is 78. She is 38. 38+38=76. I would say she is middle aged. There is nothing wrong with being middle aged. I say it because I think sometimes we think of them as being so young and inexperienced, when in fact, they are not. The fully mature adults making their own decisions about the their lives. They are not two young impressionable 20 year olds.

 

[mjb52]

He's 35! Just do it as a personal favour for me, you're killing me here.

 

[mag]

He's 35! Just do it as a personal favour for me, you're killing me here.

Yep, and I think his life expectancy is around 80. So that would put 40 as the “middle.” Now I assume you would agree that we wouldn’t call someone who is 41 “old” (unless you happen to be a teenager ) so that would mean into the forties is still “middle aged.” That means going the other way, into the 30, to say 35 is “middle aged.” It doesn’t seem that complicated. I get that Harry is sort of on the bubble so to speak, but Meghan is way closer to 40 than 30 and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We all get one year older every year. Even William and Kate are middle aged.

I will stop saying it if it bugs you so much. Again, the point is we shouldn’t be treating like young people who may not know what they are doing or who are just doing this on a whim, or young people who can’t afford to support themselves. Whether or not you agree with what they are doing, whether or not Charles continues to support them, they are grown adults who are perfectly capable of looking after themselves. Harry has been supported by his father and the British public for 35 years - that is way more of a head start than most people get.

 

[MacMadame]

Middle-age is usually considered to be 45+. (Look it up. That seems to be the consensus.) Calling Meghan and Harry -- who are in their 30s -- middle-aged is just a way to drag them IMO.

they are grown adults who are perfectly capable of looking after themselves.

Yes, they are grown adults. That doesn't make them middle-aged.

This standard, especially the white skin one, has existed in Asian cultures before any Western influence.

Also, Western perceptions of Asian beauty are usually contradictory to Asian perceptions of Asian beauty, so I don't agree with your opening statement.

It's a false comparison because Western countries have no power over these other countries and didn't force this standard on them.

And while some Eastern countries like to consume Western culture, I have never met someone from an Asian country who thought Western culture was superior and Eastern culture was inferior. They sample Western culture for fun just like we sample theirs.

Like California teens who aren't of Asian descent bringing sushi to school in their lunch boxes. It's not because they think their own culture is inferior. It's because it's cool to experience other cultures and borrow the best parts.

I know they have millions, but security is expensive I imagine millions wont last very long with all the expenses, housing, security, travel, general living unless they do have actual paying gigs.
JMO

Which is why the Queen's statement talked about a transition to them earning their own money; not earning their own money from Day One. That says to me that the UK, probably through the Duchy of Cornwell money will pay for most of it first and they'll gradually be weaned off as they start to work for themselves and have income.

As for security, I think there are bound to be expenses that any place they live will have to bear. Stuff like extra training of local police and first responders or having to hire more staff. Some of it will be hard to quantify and therefore won't likely be reimbursed.

But anything Harry & Meghan want that's over and above the standard offering should be paid for by them whenever they aren't doing official royal duties IMO.

In the articles about other countries' royals that work, it was mentioned they do still show up occasionally for royal events and I would expect Harry and Meghan to do the same. For example, they might show up to some minor event in Canada rather than a royal based in the UK flying over. Or go to family events in the UK when they are living there. Their statement made it seem like they were open to that sort of thing.